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Air Transport - 9/21/2006 1:46:44 AM   
KDonovan


Posts: 1157
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		can you air transport troops (non-paras) to a base in which the airfield is damaged?

< Message edited by KDonovan -- 3/6/2007 4:12:53 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Air Tranport - 9/21/2006 1:54:07 AM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		I believe so, but your op losses will be higher of course and the number of troops should be reduced.

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(in reply to KDonovan)
Post #: 2
RE: Air Tranport - 9/21/2006 2:34:30 AM   
ctangus


Posts: 2153
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
Status: offline 		It also depends on how damaged it is. My experience is that if the airfield is closed for bombers, you can't do it. (Which does make some sense.)

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 3
RE: Air Tranport - 9/21/2006 8:36:23 PM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		i've found in my games that if air ops are allowed and the field isn't level 1 then they will transport.  they won't carry some items tanks, tractors, large guns ect.  also when a large portion of the unit has been transported the unit name will change to add a /1 and the transport will stop moving it.  I have not had any problems with air transport other than the transports sometimes switching to supply transport.  transports switching to supply might have something to do with the weather.  I stand down all attacks during foul weather but keep transports flying. 

(in reply to ctangus)
Post #: 4
RE: Air Tranport - 9/21/2006 8:47:29 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

i've found in my games that if air ops are allowed and the field isn't level 1 then they will transport.  they won't carry some items tanks, tractors, large guns ect.  also when a large portion of the unit has been transported the unit name will change to add a /1 and the transport will stop moving it.  I have not had any problems with air transport other than the transports sometimes switching to supply transport.  transports switching to supply might have something to do with the weather.  I stand down all attacks during foul weather but keep transports flying. 



In fact if guns, tanks, etc... are left behind, this is because there are too large for the AC used. The beauty of WITP being for example that Japanese Para Rgts are equiped with AT guns too heavy to be airloaded.... But I disgress.

Transport squadrons will carry all 'carriable' squads and then (either all squads have been flown to the target, or only too heavy squads remained at the start base) they will change orders and start flying supplies to the same destination.
At least this is what I have always seen.

As for the weather, sometimes aircraft flying transport missions won't fly in bad weather.




(in reply to pmelheck1)
Post #: 5
RE: Air Tranport - 9/21/2006 9:05:59 PM   
The Duke

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		If the runway is 100% damaged by enemy bombers, TF bombardments, etc. then nothing will get off via standard transport planes.

At times I've had success in this situation (or bases w/ 0 airfields) by using float planes like the Mavis and Emily..but this has not always been the case, it seem to work at times, not at others.

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RE: Air Tranport - 9/21/2006 9:39:32 PM   
KDonovan


Posts: 1157
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

If the runway is 100% damaged by enemy bombers, TF bombardments, etc. then nothing will get off via standard transport planes.

At times I've had success in this situation (or bases w/ 0 airfields) by using float planes like the Mavis and Emily..but this has not always been the case, it seem to work at times, not at others.


what if the runway is 90% damaged...will air transports still land there?

(in reply to The Duke)
Post #: 7
RE: Air Tranport - 9/21/2006 9:53:12 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I always wondered when an airfield is closed? Never got a 100% reply on that.

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Post #: 8
RE: Air Tranport - 9/21/2006 10:18:49 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		the hard-fast airfield "closed" rule was removed long ago back in UV days. Its more of a preportional thing now meaning the that the more damaged the runway and services the less aircraft will be ready, the more aicraft will be damaged by ops and the less likely the airfield can launch an attack.

If the field is 90% damaged, its unlikely to operate many aircraft. A player could fly in more but if the damage remains high they'll end up damaged very quickly.

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Post #: 9
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 4:24:39 AM   
The Duke

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		I"m in a situation now where my opponent is bringing in 100+ B29s/day to flatten one of my airbases.....I have multiple transport squadrons trying to get units out, and not a single plane has flown.

Generally speaking if the airfield is pushing 100%, you won't get hardly anything moved out.  Might try seaplanes, as I said that's been inconsistent from my experience.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 10
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 3:42:57 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		The answer to this question is:


They will fly INTO a base that is 100% damaged. Planes will not fly FROM a base that is 100% damaged.

I just flew 1/2 of the South Seas Bgd into PM with Tinas. A ton of them were damaged in the process. PM was 100% runway and service damage.

Sadly they have arrived too late to influance the outcome of the battle.

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(in reply to The Duke)
Post #: 11
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 3:45:50 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Duke

I"m in a situation now where my opponent is bringing in 100+ B29s/day to flatten one of my airbases.....I have multiple transport squadrons trying to get units out, and not a single plane has flown.

Generally speaking if the airfield is pushing 100%, you won't get hardly anything moved out.  Might try seaplanes, as I said that's been inconsistent from my experience.



Duke, try basing your transports at another base and using the "Pick up troops" function. This should get some out.

I finally figured out how to use this. First set your transports to troop transport and set the destination. The "Pick up troops" button should now work. Then choose who you want picked up from the base and they will be flown back to the base that the transports are based at.

_____________________________

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


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Post #: 12
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 5:37:32 PM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

Posts: 1359
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Gdansk
Status: offline 		I ve never managed to pick up troops from base with more than 50% airfield damage using transport planes.

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Post #: 13
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 5:43:43 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		I am always suprisaed at just what size guns the Allies can manage to "Airlift" Some of My Ducth Transports are Moving 6 Inch CD guns by Air.....


                 

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Post #: 14
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 6:13:03 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Must be nice. I can't even get any Japanese transports to move 47 mm ATGs.

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 15
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 7:10:44 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		They will move 105mm arty pieces however. Weird.

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


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Post #: 16
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 7:23:07 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Must be nice. I can't even get any Japanese transports to move 47 mm ATGs.


Its all related to the size of the item.. Sizes can be altered using the editor.. Japanese transports can move 37mm AT guns, but once they upgrade to 47mm they must go by land or sea. But if using paratroopers to capture a base not having the 4 or so 47mm AT guns will not affect the battle... In my experience, Paratroopers need only to be sent after very lightly defended bases or they are mauled... Usually they can handle enemy base forces and arty units, but nothing much bigger.. Perhaps something the size of an NLF, but get much larger and the paratroopers will be mauled... You can't bring enough in on the first wave to survive the Shock Attack they generate.

Now if we could only drop paratroopers on non-base hexes, then their real-life role of stopping supplies and cutting off retreat would be usable.

Xargun

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 17
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 7:41:38 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		bug. Being fixed


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Post #: 18
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 8:04:33 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Must be nice. I can't even get any Japanese transports to move 47 mm ATGs.


Its all related to the size of the item.. Sizes can be altered using the editor.. Japanese transports can move 37mm AT guns, but once they upgrade to 47mm they must go by land or sea. But if using paratroopers to capture a base not having the 4 or so 47mm AT guns will not affect the battle... In my experience, Paratroopers need only to be sent after very lightly defended bases or they are mauled... Usually they can handle enemy base forces and arty units, but nothing much bigger.. Perhaps something the size of an NLF, but get much larger and the paratroopers will be mauled... You can't bring enough in on the first wave to survive the Shock Attack they generate.

Now if we could only drop paratroopers on non-base hexes, then their real-life role of stopping supplies and cutting off retreat would be usable.

Xargun



Yeah, I realize those 4 47 mm ATGs don't really do too much, but I hate having fragments floating around. Guess I'll just take those ATGs, stick them on an AK loaded with supply bound for an island and add a bit to the defense.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 19
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 8:18:23 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		They are nice to have as a cadre in case the unit is destroyed. I lost one of the Yoskusa brigades in an ill-advised air drop in the DEI. They regrew from the 6 47mm ATGs that were left behind.

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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


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Post #: 20
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 11:07:42 PM   
KDonovan


Posts: 1157
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

They will fly INTO a base that is 100% damaged. Planes will not fly FROM a base that is 100% damaged.

I just flew 1/2 of the South Seas Bgd into PM with Tinas. A ton of them were damaged in the process. PM was 100% runway and service damage.


does anyone else find this pretty absurb?? How can transports land at an airfield filled with holes??

(in reply to RUPD3658)
Post #: 21
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 11:11:57 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		well, if it's troops, i agree it should be pretty much impossible. In the case of supplies, they could be dumped out without the plane landing but it would not be nearly as efficient due to loss. (spoilage)

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Post #: 22
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 11:13:42 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

quote:

They will fly INTO a base that is 100% damaged. Planes will not fly FROM a base that is 100% damaged.

I just flew 1/2 of the South Seas Bgd into PM with Tinas. A ton of them were damaged in the process. PM was 100% runway and service damage.


does anyone else find this pretty absurb?? How can transports land at an airfield filled with holes??


fly in low at very low speed and let them jump out, like helis not touching down!

(in reply to KDonovan)
Post #: 23
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 11:18:10 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		you first.....i'll be right behind you. honest.

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Post #: 24
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 11:46:37 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

well, if it's troops, i agree it should be pretty much impossible. In the case of supplies, they could be dumped out without the plane landing but it would not be nearly as efficient due to loss. (spoilage)


Didn't they develop airdropping supplies (using parachutes) during WW 2 ? Supplies should be fairly easy to deliver to a base... Men - unless they are paratroopers I would say either impossible or a good chance to lose the plane and the men on it.

Xargun

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 25
RE: Air Tranport - 9/22/2006 11:53:33 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Yes, it was largely a trial and error process for supply drops, which improved steadily as time went by an they found out what worked, what didn't. In a famous episode of "I luv those Ozzers" they even figured out ways to break down Arty and transport a few by air. Even in the case of troop transport, it took planning and logistical organization, something that i've always felt was absent from Grigsby based games where air transport is concerned. Its too easy overall and tends to use bulk capacity values. You can acomplish great things with airtransport. My recent favorite was the 4 day transport of an entire marine division to Lunga on the fly in my game with Bombur. Just point click and shoot....who needs transports? Of course the best exploit of all time has to remain the skeletal Panzer corp trick used in WiR

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Post #: 26
RE: Air Tranport - 9/23/2006 11:07:37 AM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		is it possible to deliver supply via air to units in:

A) non base hex
B) enemy owned base where your units are too?


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Post #: 27
RE: Air Tranport - 9/23/2006 12:09:57 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		You may fly into a NON base if it is a potential base location (Base level zero) IF you use flying boats.
Patrol flying boats have a transport mission in all mods. In RHS, flying boat transports are PATROL
planes and so they fly transport missions - with their real capacity - like patrol planes do - but only to patrol plane ranges (that is 33% ) - not the 50% of land transports. [In RHS this is about to be corrected - ALL planes other than fighters will fly to 42% of range on extended missions - INCLUDING both land transports and patrol planes - this from version 5.00]

Lifting gear is also less an issue in RHS because

1) There are HEAVY transports - and transport flying boats rated heavy - on both sides

2) There are gliders - able to outlift regular transports - on both sides

3) Devices are redefined in some cases - so weights are correct

4) Units are redefined (or newly defined) with correct devices. There is even a flying tank unit
(it is Japanese and it was standing up to drop on a B-29 base when the war ended - and it did NOT
require using heavy transports even).

Now you can fly to a friendly base (or potential base if using patrol planes) - a right side colored location.
You must ASSAULT an enemy base (or location) - and ONLY paras (or a variation - glider troops, flying
tanks, etc in RHS) can do that. If you have NOT captured the location, you may not fly units there EXCEPT to air assault it. But you CAN fly supplies AT THE SAME TIME you fly units to air assault - just throw in way too many planes for the units and supplies will land.

Note that, in addition to having heavy transports - which both lift more and fly farther than the C-47 and other mediums do - and gliders - RHS has more airborne units - on both sides. The latest edition was Australian First Para.

(in reply to pauk)
Post #: 28
RE: Air Tranport - 9/23/2006 3:55:03 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

is it possible to deliver supply via air to units in:

A) non base hex

Yes, it is possible, but you won't get very much return for your investment. Lots of turns they seem not to fly.



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Post #: 29
RE: Air Tranport - 9/23/2006 4:51:24 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant


quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

is it possible to deliver supply via air to units in:

A) non base hex

Yes, it is possible, but you won't get very much return for your investment. Lots of turns they seem not to fly.


There also seems to be some kind of restriction limiting such missions to units/hexes that cannot be reached via "normal" overland supply. I've had a situation for some time where Allied units one hex off the Burma rail lines were fighting. Supplies were only trickling in to them so I tried to set transports to airlift supplies to them but they refused to fly. And I'm sure they were not flying and there was no LRCAP. Tried for almost a game month before giving up.

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Post #: 30
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