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RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/11/2006 2:56:07 AM   
Jeff Gilbert

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		About Post 128
1st paragraph about Gibraltar, last sentance.
... , but the side without Gibraltar is locked in ...
not in locked in.

Just trying to help.

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US Army [Ret]
Palm Harbor, Florida, USA

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 151
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/11/2006 3:13:30 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Gilbert
About Post 128
1st paragraph about Gibraltar, last sentance.
... , but the side without Gibraltar is locked in ...
not in locked in.

Just trying to help.

Thanks.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Jeff Gilbert)
Post #: 152
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/11/2006 4:31:13 AM   
sajbalk


Posts: 264
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Davenport, Iowa
Status: offline 		Re post 123 (India)

Sri Lanka was never a part of the country of India. Ceylon is the WWII appellation.

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Iowa, USA

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Post #: 153
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/11/2006 5:48:51 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Re post 123 (India)

Sri Lanka was never a part of the country of India. Ceylon is the WWII appellation.

Yes. That is why I preface it with the word 'now'. This matches what I did with references to Bangladesh and Pakistan.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 154
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 12:06:49 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Here are the first 2 pages of the 3rd tutorial. I have the screen shots done for the other 8 pages and I'll try to find time to create the text for more of them today. Right now it is back to debugging.




Attachment (1)

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Steve

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Post #: 155
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 12:08:16 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Status: offline 		2nd and last in this series.




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Post #: 156
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 12:30:31 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		About the second writup, where you describe MTN units, I think there is an error.
The MTN units special movement ability in WiF FE is restricted to the Pacific scaled hexes IIRC, so in MWiF it should not exist.

Also, as a remark, you should maybe choose a screenshot where there are Alpine hexsides within mountains, this would kill 2 bird with 1 stone.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 157
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 12:39:52 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

About the second writup, where you describe MTN units, I think there is an error.
The MTN units special movement ability in WiF FE is restricted to the Pacific scaled hexes IIRC, so in MWiF it should not exist.

Also, as a remark, you should maybe choose a screenshot where there are Alpine hexsides within mountains, this would kill 2 bird with 1 stone.

Thanks, I'll fix the error.

Each page has a limited amount of space for text. I will cover the alpine hexsides in another page of this tutorial.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 158
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 9:50:34 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Pages 3 and 4 for the map tutorial.




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Post #: 159
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 9:52:20 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Second and last in the series. Hey, Patrice, alpine hexes are next!




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 160
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 4:04:09 PM   
wfzimmerman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Second and last in the series. Hey, Patrice, alpine hexes are next!





I don't get what are "the four hexes of the Kiel canal." is that shown on the map?

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Post #: 161
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 4:24:58 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

I don't get what are "the four hexes of the Kiel canal." is that shown on the map?

They are the 4 hexes that border the canal.
That is :

- Kiel hex
- Hex W of Kiel
- Hex NW of Kiel
- Hex NE of Kiel.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
Post #: 162
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 4:32:36 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		About rivers, you say that they affect both movement and combat.
They do not affect movement, only combat (attackers halved).

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 163
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 4:50:13 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		About rail movement across straits, I think you are wrong too.
RAW has it that you can rail move to and from both ends of a Strait hexside, if there is a rail on both hexes.

Quote from RAW :
***********************
11.10 Rail movement
A unit can rail move across a straits hexside if there is a rail line in the hex on either side of the straits. Only 1 unit a side can rail move across each straits hexside in a turn.
***********************

So a unit can rail move from Aarhus to Malmo through Copenhagen, even it there is no rail drawn between Copenhagen and Malmo across the sea.

Which is not true for the strait to the north, as there is no rail in the Western hex.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 164
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 8:12:58 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
About rail movement across straits, I think you are wrong too.
RAW has it that you can rail move to and from both ends of a Strait hexside, if there is a rail on both hexes.

Quote from RAW :
***********************
11.10 Rail movement
A unit can rail move across a straits hexside if there is a rail line in the hex on either side of the straits. Only 1 unit a side can rail move across each straits hexside in a turn.
***********************

So a unit can rail move from Aarhus to Malmo through Copenhagen, even it there is no rail drawn between Copenhagen and Malmo across the sea.

Which is not true for the strait to the north, as there is no rail in the Western hex.


First, about the rivers - I'll fix that.

Second, about Kiel - I'll make it more clear (there is room for more explanation, which is needed)

Third, about railroads and straits. Stockholm is a more interesting place to analyze this rule. WIF FE has a clearly drawn rail line into Stockholm across a straits from the hex SE of Stockholm. But the hex SW of Stockholm does not have a similar rail line. A strict reading of the rule would be that rail movement would be possible from either hex into Stockholm. Or from the hex west of Stockholm to the hex SW of Stockholm since they both have rail lines and there is a straits hex connecting them. If that were so, I would expect WIF FE to show the rail lines. It doesn't.

Another example is at the Kerch straits. The hex east of Kerch has a rail line headnig towards Kerch, clearly indicating that rail movement is possible across the straits. Similarly, most of the rail lines in Denmark that cross straits have graphic indications that the rail lines are suppose to continue across the straits. The connection from Copenhagen to Malmo does not have any such indication.

My position is that:
(1) the rule as written is incorrect since it would allow rail movement around Stockholm that is clearly not intended.
(2) when rail movement across straits is intended the map has a clear indication of that by the way the rail lines were drawn.
(3) rail movement from Copenhagen to Malmo is not possible since there is no indication by the way the rai llines were drawn.

I could add a special rule just for the Copenhagen-Malmo link. It would be along the lines of: "If two cities are separated by an all sea hex but connected by a straits, and both cities have rail lines, then rail movement is possible across the straits.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 165
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 9:52:07 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Once the war began there were no more train ferries between Malmo and Copenhagen. Likewise there was a train ferry from the Swedish town of Trelleborg, south of Malmo,  to Lubeck but after the war began it was only used for an occasional sealed German troop train moving through Sweden.

I am not shure of the exact timing of these items though.

Lars

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 166
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 10:01:50 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
Once the war began there were no more train ferries between Malmo and Copenhagen. Likewise there was a train ferry from the Swedish town of Trelleborg, south of Malmo,  to Lubeck but after the war began it was only used for an occasional sealed German troop train moving through Sweden.

I am not shure of the exact timing of these items though.

Lars


Thank yuo for the information. I found another place on the map where there are two cities with rail lines separated by an all sea hex but with a straits. That is the link from Batavia (Java) to Telok Betong (Sumatra).

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 167
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 10:53:51 PM   
Froonp


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Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

My position is that:
(1) the rule as written is incorrect since it would allow rail movement around Stockholm that is clearly not intended.
(2) when rail movement across straits is intended the map has a clear indication of that by the way the rail lines were drawn.
(3) rail movement from Copenhagen to Malmo is not possible since there is no indication by the way the rai llines were drawn.

I could add a special rule just for the Copenhagen-Malmo link. It would be along the lines of: "If two cities are separated by an all sea hex but connected by a straits, and both cities have rail lines, then rail movement is possible across the straits.

There is also the Gibraltar / Tangier passage, Reggio / Messina, Istanbul / Scutari, Hakodate / Ominato that should be railway too. So your rule should include ports (major & minor) too in its checking.
Also, the other straits in Denmark should be railway too. Frederickshavn to South, South of Aarhus to West of Copenhagen
For me, with maybe the exception of Stockholm eastern hexes, all strait hexes whare there are rails at both ends should be rail hexsides too.
I think that the drawing of the railway inside Stockholm must have been done like that to indicate that the others were not possible.

Peter this may be a case of asking a consensus on the WiF List, doesn't it ?

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 168
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 11:07:01 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
quote:

My position is that:
(1) the rule as written is incorrect since it would allow rail movement around Stockholm that is clearly not intended.
(2) when rail movement across straits is intended the map has a clear indication of that by the way the rail lines were drawn.
(3) rail movement from Copenhagen to Malmo is not possible since there is no indication by the way the rai llines were drawn.

I could add a special rule just for the Copenhagen-Malmo link. It would be along the lines of: "If two cities are separated by an all sea hex but connected by a straits, and both cities have rail lines, then rail movement is possible across the straits.

There is also the Gibraltar / Tangier passage, Reggio / Messina, Istanbul / Scutari, Hakodate / Ominato that should be railway too. So your rule should include ports (major & minor) too in its checking.
Also, the other straits in Denmark should be railway too. Frederickshavn to South, South of Aarhus to West of Copenhagen
For me, with maybe the exception of Stockholm eastern hexes, all strait hexes whare there are rails at both ends should be rail hexsides too.
I think that the drawing of the railway inside Stockholm must have been done like that to indicate that the others were not possible.

Peter this may be a case of asking a consensus on the WiF List, doesn't it ?


Yes.

The other Denmark rail lines crossing straits is done by explicitly coding the rail link through the hexside, which results in the program drawing the rail line connection. I tried to figure out how to make the rail line disappear over water but it was way too hard. I will not draw the rail connections between cities/ports across all sea hexes at straits. Instead, I'll just have the tutorial (and the Rules As Coded) describe those situations as being valid for rail movement.

Lars, at first I thought that your information justified my position of no rail link between Copenhagen and Malmo. But on reflection, I see that rail movement was not only possible but common. That the war shut down operations doesn't matter. For example, if the Germans had conquered Sweden, I am sure they could have had the rail linkage restored had they so desired.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 169
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/12/2006 11:10:25 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

Lars, at first I thought that your information justified my position of no rail link between Copenhagen and Malmo. But on reflection, I see that rail movement was not only possible but common. That the war shut down operations doesn't matter. For example, if the Germans had conquered Sweden, I am sure they could have had the rail linkage restored had they so desired.

Exactly what I wanted to add.

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Post #: 170
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 2:23:55 AM   
Neilster


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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Second and last in the series. Hey, Patrice, alpine hexes are next!





See how much better this page looks than the others with a gap between the top text box and the image? I think the same would be true of the top text box and the right-hand text box. Both could be accomplished on every page by raising the bottom of the top text box by a few pixels.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 171
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 2:29:55 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Incidently, my vote would be for a neutral background without any powers' flag. The players are going to see them plenty in the game and they are so obvious as to not require any prior advertisment. IMHO they're just going to confuse new players who are going to think (in this case) that they're reading a tutorial specific to Japan.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 172
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 4:32:58 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Incidently, my vote would be for a neutral background without any powers' flag. The players are going to see them plenty in the game and they are so obvious as to not require any prior advertisment. IMHO they're just going to confuse new players who are going to think (in this case) that they're reading a tutorial specific to Japan.

Cheers, Neilster


There are 10 introductory tutorials with, I guess, 10 pages each on average. Changing the background color reduces the monotony.
Of course I could always say something like: "This tutorial is sponsered by The Tokyo Tonsorial Society" in order to justify the background color.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 10/13/2006 4:33:59 AM >

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Post #: 173
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 12:34:27 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Here is the revised text for the fourth page of the third scenario.




Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 174
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 12:35:50 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		And one new page (last in series).




Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 175
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 1:03:05 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		Another remark.
I think that you should have the Strait symbols changed.
This simple double red arrow is not very pretty I think.
Moreover, when they are with a Border, both thes red things are not good looking.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 176
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 1:04:15 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Another remark.
I think that you should have the Strait symbols changed.
This simple double red arrow is not very pretty I think.
Moreover, when they are with a Border, both thes red things are not good looking.

Why not having some ship-like silhouette embedded in the double arrow symbol, and another color that red ?

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 177
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 5:07:42 PM   
Plainian

 

Posts: 212
Joined: 9/22/2006
From: Dundee in Scotland
Status: offline 		Dark blue or the same colour as the river names?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Another remark.
I think that you should have the Strait symbols changed.
This simple double red arrow is not very pretty I think.
Moreover, when they are with a Border, both thes red things are not good looking.

Why not having some ship-like silhouette embedded in the double arrow symbol, and another color that red ?


(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 178
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 7:32:15 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian
Dark blue or the same colour as the river names?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Another remark.
I think that you should have the Strait symbols changed.
This simple double red arrow is not very pretty I think.
Moreover, when they are with a Border, both thes red things are not good looking.

Why not having some ship-like silhouette embedded in the double arrow symbol, and another color that red ?


I am not keen on using anything other than arrows. Fine detail gets lost at lower zoom levels.

Any shade of blue would be problematic since straits symbols often parallel (and are close to) sea area boundaries (e.g., Gibraltar and Frederikshavn).

I am thinking of making the countries boundaries a darker red. Right now they are very bright relative to the rest of the map. That would make the straits and country boundries somewhat different when they are in close proximity.


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Plainian)
Post #: 179
RE: MWiF Tutorial - 10/13/2006 10:28:18 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

And one new page (last in series).





A mention of the fact that you cannot trace supply across an alpine hexside regardless of whether a mountain unit crossed it would be useful.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 180
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