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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> RD japanese planes?

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RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 11:57:13 AM

Bahnsteig

Posts: 70
Joined: 8/18/2004
From: Croatia\Germany
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Hi,

just wanted to ask if there is a way to speed up japanese planes RD.
100 RD planes = 1 month earlier?
200 RD planes = 2 months earlier?
Couldn't find anything usefull while searching the forum, just some posts from 2004\2005.
Perhaps something has changed since than.

Thx

Post #: 1

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 1:08:23 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

hi/bok...

This is my understanding of the RD

the bigger is the number of RD for certain type , the bigger is chance to geting arrival date earlier.

100 or 200 rd points doesn't guarantee you earlier availability of one or two months - it means that, after the dice rolls you COULD get earlier arrival date. When this dice rolls happens it is unknown. The bigger should be better, so having 200 rd points should help you to speed up arrival date. Never had more than two months earlier arrival, although few guys said that they got some types 3 months earlier

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Post #: 2

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 4:06:03 PM

Bahnsteig

Posts: 70
Joined: 8/18/2004
From: Croatia\Germany
Status: offline

Hvala :)

Will the date-change be shown somewhere? Or will it "just" happen?

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 3

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 4:12:09 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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I believe it just happens but I'm not sure. I haven't have the "privilege" of having a plane come early.

(in reply to Bahnsteig)

Post #: 4

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 4:48:12 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

Paulk,

I'm just curious, for those who have gotten early arrival of plane types, is it -really- that useful?� Just curious.� Would banking the HI be better, or maybe spending it on accellerating ships, be a better expendature of whatever is required to generate the R&D points?

I have only a vague understanding of Japanese production (basically, I don't touch it, except to turn off obsolete types, and to balance engine production).� So I may be completely off.

But basically, if whatever it takes to create the R&D points (HI?), would they not be better spent on accellerating ships or banking it?� With exp being so crucial in WitP, it seems that the difference in flying an A6M3 vs. A6M5 2 months earlier, isn't THAT big a difference (as a mostly Allied player, I am accustomed to flying pilots in obsolete frames, simply because there is no choice).

In my '45 game, there isn't any point in accellerating anything, because most ships and plane types arrive "soon" anyways, and your pilots suck, so flying a Frank or Reppu doesn't really matter.

Just curious.
-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 10/19/2006 4:50:46 PM >

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RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 9:01:54 PM

pauk

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From: Zagreb,Croatia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bahnsteig

Hvala :)

Will the date-change be shown somewhere? Or will it "just" happen?

Yes, it will be shown in aircraft replacement pool screen.

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Post #: 6

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 9:11:33 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
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It depends Feinder - if you are on PDU i would say yes. The types which are worth researching are Jack and George. Tony and Tojo are well worth of research too but i don't have enough supply for expanding these rd factories at the start of the game and they are coming in August 42. So there is a small chance that you will speed up their arrival.

As for HI, i do not believe that rd consumes engines and HI (i may be wrong but...).

re: accelerating ships - i do not touch my production at all until i capture raw resourses and see what i can expand at what cost. But expanding HI is a must i agree that is distribution HI to shipyards/armament/ac producition is real Zen. Usually i'm expanding all three industries rationally so nothing spectacular happens.

But, if only i could have Shinden two months earlier i give all my carriers for that because that would mean:

a) it is 45 and i'm still alive
b) Jap carriers do not worth a single penny in 45...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

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RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 9:17:21 PM

BLurking

Posts: 199
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Frisco, TX
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You'd have to be doing very well indeed to get the Shinden in '45.

If you have any factories or HI left at that point, I guarantee the Allies will blow it to smithereens before a single plane leaves the plant.

Just surviving '45 is tough, any production is gravy. I take it all, even Jakes are welcome at this stage.

Word to the wise - build up stockpiles in '44 while you can...

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 8

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 9:30:59 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

As for HI, i do not believe that rd consumes engines and HI (i may be wrong but...).

You are wrong. In my current PBEM I just shut down all -rd factories and my HI and Engine stockpiles are increasing at an alarming rate. I was increasing my Mitsubishi Engines roughly 4 a day and now after like 3 days, they have shot up nearly 50 in stockpile.

Now the trick is... -rd factories (like all factories) have 2 numbers the first number in () is the number of damaged factories... and the number to the right of that is the number of working factories [every point to me is a factory]. So if you have Shinden-rd (99)x10 -> you have 99 being repaired / converted - at a rate that increases as the arrival date comes closer - and 10 actually being produced.. So add the random 1-30 to the 10 and you will build 2 Shinden-rd every 3 days. So, after 150 days, you will have build 100 of them - thus have a chance to bring them forward 1 month. The planes that are built do not exist, but cost HI and engines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk
re: accelerating ships - i do not touch my production at all until i capture raw resourses and see what i can expand at what cost. But expanding HI is a must i agree that is distribution HI to shipyards/armament/ac producition is real Zen. Usually i'm expanding all three industries rationally so nothing spectacular happens.

Accelerating ships do not cost you anything more than shipyard points. Basically you shift men / materials from building other ships to the one(s) you accelerate - so you don't spend anything 'more' on them. By accelerating 1 ship, you will probably stop building on another ship further down the line.

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 10/19/2006 9:33:32 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 10:02:27 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

You are wrong. In my current PBEM I just shut down all -rd factories and my HI and Engine stockpiles are increasing at an alarming rate. I was increasing my Mitsubishi Engines roughly 4 a day and now after like 3 days, they have shot up nearly 50 in stockpile.

That's very interesting. I track my airframe and engine production pretty closely and didn't realize that -rd factories used engines. My current -rd is 690.

If that's the case, I'm going to shut them off until they're within, say, 6-12 months of the rd ending. Gotta research that further. That could drastically increase my HI reserves.

(in reply to Xargun)

Post #: 10

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/19/2006 11:41:04 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

That's very interesting. I track my airframe and engine production pretty closely and didn't realize that -rd factories used engines. My current -rd is 690. If that's the case, I'm going to shut them off until they're within, say, 6-12 months of the rd ending. Gotta research that further. That could drastically increase my HI reserves.

Only the "repaired" factories will consume HI and engines, and since it is added to a random 1-30 it is hard to track... But without a programmer saying yes/no I would swear they consume them.

Simply 'halt' them - they should continue to repair over time and when the time comes for the plane to be produced, turn them back on... This can easily save you hundreds of HI and dozens of engines.. especially since the -rd planes don't really exist.

In my current PBeM game I have been playing around with this and recording Mitsubishi and Nakajima stockpiles every day for like 2 game months - along with Manpower, HI, etc... We are only just starting June '42 and I have over 70k HI stockpiled - I attribute this to turning off excess engine and aircraft production - and I have expanded Shipyards considerably from stock - as well as some aircraft production.

I am also working on consolidating all of my aircraft production to a few types to save even more HI and engines. To me winning as japan is about surviving with men / materials to fight with in '45 and beyond and stockpiling HI and engines is the key to that. As well as having large enough stockpiles of aircraft.

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 10/19/2006 11:47:01 PM >

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 11

RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/20/2006 12:10:03 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Only the "repaired" factories will consume HI and engines, and since it is added to a random 1-30 it is hard to track... But without a programmer saying yes/no I would swear they consume them.

Simply 'halt' them - they should continue to repair over time and when the time comes for the plane to be produced, turn them back on... This can easily save you hundreds of HI and dozens of engines.. especially since the -rd planes don't really exist.

In my current PBeM game I have been playing around with this and recording Mitsubishi and Nakajima stockpiles every day for like 2 game months - along with Manpower, HI, etc... We are only just starting June '42 and I have over 70k HI stockpiled - I attribute this to turning off excess engine and aircraft production - and I have expanded Shipyards considerably from stock - as well as some aircraft production.

I am also working on consolidating all of my aircraft production to a few types to save even more HI and engines. To me winning as japan is about surviving with men / materials to fight with in '45 and beyond and stockpiling HI and engines is the key to that. As well as having large enough stockpiles of aircraft.

Xargun

It sounds like we do many of the same things. I track all of the stats on the last page of the intel page. I have them from 7 Dec 41 in my games. In my longest PBEM, I have >230000 HI stockpiled in late Oct 42. I too closely manage my airframe and engine production. I'm not sure how many engines to stockpile though. I have 3500+ Mitsubishi and about 750 Nakajima as well as some Kawasaki and Aichis too. They all are growing even though most of my Mitsubishi factories are turned off.

My goal for excess HI is over 1,000,000 by 1 Jan 45. We'll see what happens. I'm very curious about Japanese production and track a lot of it.

Here are a few of my current stats [Points (stockpile)]:

Naval Shipyard: 1276 (24) I screwed it up recently and am digging myself out of a hole
Merchant Shipyard: 1095 (431) Currently +61 per turn. Time to accelerate something
Armament: 550 (72685)
Vehicle: 120 (8529)

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RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/20/2006 6:44:49 AM

Yakface

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I've counted up the engines needed for the planes I am actually producing and it tallies with the 'needed' figure for engines found on the industry/resource availability screen. At the moment this also tallies with my engine consumption (there would be a further 75 engines per month consumed due to research if it worked that way, which would put me badly in the hole for Nak's). At the moment this is only one turn's data, but initial indications are that research does not seem to consume engines, at least. No way I'm doing the sums for HI.

(in reply to Mike Solli)

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RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/20/2006 11:23:42 AM

pauk

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From: Zagreb,Croatia
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hi Xargun... your explanation makes sense - especially how the RD actually works. That explains why i had earlier arrival date reported in the middle of the month....

Mike, not a bad idea with stockpiling HI but I'm not sure that will help you a much. Having a enormous HI pool is nice but if your opponent targeting your resources (supply) and specific war industry production (planes, arms...) you wont gain nothing with HI points because your industry production is destroyed and you wont have supply to repair it.

IMHO it is better to employ your HI at the full capacity as soon as possible because Tojo in 42 is more valuable than Tojo in 44...expanding of engine production is good also, engines are money in the bank and they can't be destroyed anyhow...

If you are playing with PDU, you can keep Allied bombarders from the HI until they capture base(s) from where their fighters can provide escort to them. Even a Tony in numbers can distract (?) enemy bombers from attacking a HI...

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RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/20/2006 10:52:32 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
It sounds like we do many of the same things. I track all of the stats on the last page of the intel page. I have them from 7 Dec 41 in my games. In my longest PBEM, I have >230000 HI stockpiled in late Oct 42. I too closely manage my airframe and engine production. I'm not sure how many engines to stockpile though. I have 3500+ Mitsubishi and about 750 Nakajima as well as some Kawasaki and Aichis too. They all are growing even though most of my Mitsubishi factories are turned off.

My goal for excess HI is over 1,000,000 by 1 Jan 45. We'll see what happens. I'm very curious about Japanese production and track a lot of it.

I don't have anywhere near that kind of Mitsubishi stockpile, but my Nakajima is roughly equal to yours. I have like 300 Kawasaki and about 100 Hitachi. I have all engine production (except for Mitsu and Nak) stopped until I decide on which exact planes I will be using, then I will convert the others over and continue to produce.

My HI is now at 75k and climbing around 1500-2000 per day right now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Here are a few of my current stats [Points (stockpile)]:

Naval Shipyard: 1276 (24) I screwed it up recently and am digging myself out of a hole
Merchant Shipyard: 1095 (431) Currently +61 per turn. Time to accelerate something
Armament: 550 (72685)
Vehicle: 120 (8529)

My naval shipyard stockpile is about the same as yours and slowly increasing - roughly 15 per turn - and I have a dozen or so ships accelerated - I accelerate the closest CVs. I also have several of the radar-equipped DDs accelerated, along with some Glen-carrying subs.

My Merchant shipyard is hovering around 0-8 each turn with little to no positive gain. But then I have tons of ships accelerated and numerous 'rebuilds' in the pipeline (ARs mostly, but a few MLEs and AS). I have a bunch of ARs accelerated - can always use more repair capacity. I also accelerate all TKs I can - need to haul the oil while it is safe to do so.

In Armament you have me beat, but it depends on where you are in the game. I am running with replacements on for almost all groups - except those in Manchuria. Even some of the static base forces are set to recieve replacements - I want the better CD guns.

You also have me beat in vehicle stockpile.. My current stockpile is 174 and it has not moved in 10 game days - I have all vehicle factories halted at the moment. I have 150+ of each tank I am using in stock and my armor units rarely see combat - I mostly use them to block retreat as they move quickly down roads.

I will post my stats this weekend - I am at work now and can't remember them.

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 10/20/2006 10:55:21 PM >

(in reply to Mike Solli)

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RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/20/2006 10:56:19 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

I've counted up the engines needed for the planes I am actually producing and it tallies with the 'needed' figure for engines found on the industry/resource availability screen. At the moment this also tallies with my engine consumption (there would be a further 75 engines per month consumed due to research if it worked that way, which would put me badly in the hole for Nak's). At the moment this is only one turn's data, but initial indications are that research does not seem to consume engines, at least. No way I'm doing the sums for HI.

Yak... Only the -rd shipyards that are actually running consume engines... and remember ALL aircraft factories add a random 1-30 ontop of their number before dividing to determine how many aircraft they produce that day. So it is hard to track in the short term due to the added random factor, but long term is where you will notice it.

Xargun

(in reply to Yakface)

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RE: RD japanese planes? - 10/20/2006 11:03:48 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

hi Xargun... your explanation makes sense - especially how the RD actually works. That explains why i had earlier arrival date reported in the middle of the month....

Thanks. I am trying to 'master' the Japanese production to provide the most pain I can as Japan.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk
Mike, not a bad idea with stockpiling HI but I'm not sure that will help you a much. Having a enormous HI pool is nice but if your opponent targeting your resources (supply) and specific war industry production (planes, arms...) you wont gain nothing with HI points because your industry production is destroyed and you wont have supply to repair it.

IMHO it is better to employ your HI at the full capacity as soon as possible because Tojo in 42 is more valuable than Tojo in 44...expanding of engine production is good also, engines are money in the bank and they can't be destroyed anyhow...

I would agree... You are better off with stockpiles of aircraft and engines, then you are with HI. Once the US B-29s start pounding your industry, they will probably go for your oil or production factories first and the HI last. The only reason I am stockpiling HI is when in late '43 / early '44 when my oil convoys start dying.. Then I can still run at full production with the loss of oil. But once late '44 comes I doubt I will have a stockpile of HI left due to shortages of oil / resources.

And if you are not sure what aircraft you will want in the late game, then just produce a ton of engines... Engines are either half or one-third of the HI price of most aircraft anyways, and can't be destroyed once built so its a good start... [Engines cost 18 HI I believe.. 1 engine aircraft cost 18 HI + 1 engine.. 2 engine planes cost 36 HI + 2 engines, etc...]

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 10/20/2006 11:06:46 PM >

(in reply to pauk)

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