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Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/24/2006 8:47:58 AM

Marauders

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From: Minnesota
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As most of you know from reading the Release 3 update and beta tester blog threads that Release 3 is looking pretty well, and it will be ready for public beta soon. The major items like PDS 2.0 have been completed for some time and tested.

There have been changes in the defensive logic systems that are relatively new, and although testing has been done, there will have to be some tweaking to make sure everything works right with several types of playbooks.

Because many small changes have been made, there are sure to be some ghosts in the machine that will have to be found. While the beta team goes back and does a sweep from time to time to check for new bugs, there is not an opportunity to catch everything.

David and the beta crew agree that it would be better to get Release 3 into the hands of the Maximum-Football community, so that any little problems will get brought out much more quickly and because there are changes that community members should be able to take advantage of before Release 3 becomes the gold standard later on. Community members have voiced that they would like to see a public beta release, and I am sure that a majority of game owners would like this as soon as possible.

As I have stated before, there is always a reluctance to issue a public beta, because there will be a few known small problems, and there will be other bugs that come up. That may cause undue criticism of the game from naysayers. I guess that is always an issue, but we believe that the community understands that a public beta release is not the same as a gold issue. We all hope so, anyway.

In my opinion, it is important to get a public beta release out, because a bunch of bugs had been fixed in the month following the last public release, but because PDS 2.0 was in alpha stage, an update could not be made. Some of those bugs come up from community members from time to time, and it would be nice to have an updated public copy available that is rid of those bugs.

I am asking here if community members agree with this assessment of the situation and would like to see a public beta release posted to the board within the next couple of weeks even if some things still need to be vetted or tweaked.

Post #: 1

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/24/2006 1:41:10 PM

simmer

Posts: 572
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From: Pittsburgh,Pa
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I agree......I think that most of us have rapport with the David and the beta team and we all can work together to make this game great. It is very easy to communicate with the beta team.

(in reply to Marauders)

Post #: 2

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/24/2006 3:20:52 PM

cbelva

Posts: 1843
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I agree. Do it. There will always be those who will complain regardless of what is done.

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Post #: 3

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/24/2006 5:29:07 PM

nmleague

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The beta team is still finding small items daily, but overall the game is really looking good now. Trouble is the beta team is not large enough to cover all aspects of the league, Canadian, US, Indoor etc., to continue to find the small things that need to be corrected. The public release of release 3 will allow more people to give the game a very thourgh inspection and help find more small details that need to be changed.

(in reply to cbelva)

Post #: 4

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/24/2006 6:21:14 PM

jcd38

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Joined: 2/13/2006
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as with any software you can always find bugs. i think that since PDS 2 is complete i think the public beta should be released as is. i.e. releasing it today in fact is probably ok. at this point i think it'll come together a lot faster released to the public as it sits today; unless there's a real major issue. if its only minor tweaking at this point, then there's no sense in holding it from the public.

i.e. if you guys need some help creating pdfs i can offer my services. i got the software and can make some time to do it.

(in reply to nmleague)

Post #: 5

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/24/2006 7:31:22 PM

nmleague

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Updating the manuals is now one of the holdups, once they are ready the game should soon follow.

(in reply to jcd38)

Post #: 6

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/24/2006 8:23:36 PM

dreamtheatervt

Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
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Please release a public Beta ASAP.

(in reply to nmleague)

Post #: 7

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/24/2006 9:36:04 PM

David Heath

Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
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Hi Guys

The manual is almost done. It was a little more work then we had planned.

David Heath

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Post #: 8

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 6:35:27 AM

MjH

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamtheatervt

Please release a public Beta ASAP.

Yes, please... what he said.

(in reply to dreamtheatervt)

Post #: 9

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 6:53:59 AM

bjm111

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Pheonix az transplanted from detroit
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Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(in reply to MjH)

Post #: 10

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 7:01:13 AM

local8h

Posts: 801
Joined: 5/28/2006
From: INDLAND EMPIRE
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I never even read the manual. We dont need no stinkin manual....Naaaahhh...

Please...Pretty Please Release it

Por Favor

Please naman

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Post #: 11

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 7:11:47 AM

David Winter

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Part of the BETA process includes the manual. It needs to go through a public beta just like the game.

And I think the manual is very important. Not only does it give you vital information on Play Design for example, but as so much of the game has changed since the last time you've seen it, you're going to at least need a guide of sorts to help you find things.

(in reply to local8h)

Post #: 12

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 7:20:58 AM

local8h

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I was joking

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Post #: 13

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 7:38:57 AM

David Winter

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I know..

But for those that would rather not hold up the release for 'just the manual', that is why we are.

(in reply to local8h)

Post #: 14

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 4:16:58 PM

zowee77

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Are we talking days or weeks for release?

(in reply to David Winter)

Post #: 15

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 4:41:24 PM

grrncore

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i keep hearing soon. how soon is soon?

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Post #: 16

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/25/2006 11:25:25 PM

rcleslie

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ASAP works for me.

(in reply to grrncore)

Post #: 17

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/26/2006 2:04:36 AM

Brockleigh

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I'm on-board for a public bata release. As I play Max FB mainly for the Canadian Rules and Arcade Mode, I think I'd be able to look into issues and bugs that most others wouldn't.

Looking forward to the next update.

(in reply to rcleslie)

Post #: 18

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/26/2006 11:22:10 PM

Marauders

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From: Minnesota
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quote:

i keep hearing soon. how soon is soon?

Will "real soon" suffice?

As things look now, I suspect a beta release candidate will be ready for the beta team to go through in the next couple days, but it may take from a few days to a few weeks to go through it. David has made some recent changes to the stats, and any time that happens, there needs to be some time to run some games and make sure the other stats didn't get messed up. If we seriously break something along the way, all bets will be off, but I don't see that happening.

Please do not take this as any official form of reply to your question. That will come from David alone, and anything posted by beta members is just informed conjecture. There are many things that could cause delays, so I don't want anyone quoting me as giving an official answer on this.

I must also add that this is for a beta release update. Once this is up, then I would expect that beta release updates will be posted from time to time until Release 3 is considered complete and becomes the gold standard. Then we will move on to Release 3.5 features.

(in reply to Brockleigh)

Post #: 19

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/26/2006 11:43:12 PM

local8h

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Wow a few days or weeks?

Thanks for the info Marauders...its really a help info...atleast we or i should say i shouldnt have my hopes up.

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Post #: 20

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/27/2006 12:16:37 AM

Marauders

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Well, it really comes down to how clean this next build looks.� I know that my response was a little vague, but it really has to be.

As I have stated, only David can give a date on this, and he has more information than I do.� I suspect it will be on the inside rather than the outside, but we really need to take a look at�the build�before being more definitive.

< Message edited by Marauders -- 10/27/2006 12:19:40 AM >

(in reply to local8h)

Post #: 21

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/27/2006 6:36:51 AM

Brockleigh

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No worries, Marauders. No one wants to read post after post of "But you said...!!!"

Dave (et al), take your time. The game in it's current state is more than enough to keep me happy until the release of R3.

Then again, I'm only speaking for myself, but that seems to be what most folks are saying as well.

(in reply to Marauders)

Post #: 22

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/27/2006 9:15:37 PM

local8h

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I dont know about that Brock, theres atleast six on this thread that wants R3 to be release soon..I two has two copies of this game, im on my third season and still going around the bugs. Hey and i like the game a lot and play it a lot, and its just not me that plays it in my household..i just want most of the bugs to be cleared..
I do know how long it took this game to be develope and suppose to be realease 2001 or 2002.i appriciate what Mr.Winter is doing, But come on now cant the OTHER FINDINGS be release on the next patch like an R3.5, I also want to benefit on all the new features that R3 has. Only a handful gets a chance to try it.

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Post #: 23

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/27/2006 9:22:13 PM

grrncore

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i admit please release R3 asap. i like game too. i started felt that what i bought a beta game.

< Message edited by grrncore -- 10/27/2006 9:34:55 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/27/2006 10:46:04 PM

Marauders

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I certainly understand that.� I believe that adding PDS 2.0 to the�beta builds�may have been premature.� That left a build up for a long time that had bugs in it that had been long squashed in beta.� The builds could not be released even in public form because the PDS was back to alpha stage.

Consider two things here though.� The first is that David wanted to do PDS 2.0 for a while, but he added other things that had been requested by the Maxuimum-Football community.� Many community members who had purchased the game had complaints about the PDS being a utility that did not match up well with the 3D game at times, and David believed it was a better to get PDS 2.0 into the game as soon as he could.�

Knowing that revamping the defense and doing fure updates in graphics would require the PDS to be integrated, it made sense to get it into the game as the major update to Release 3.� I would have waited a few builds to clean up the public release, but that may have required David to take the same hill twice, and he didn't have the time to do that.

Almost all software publishers will release their products a bit early, so this isn't new or exclusive to Matrix Games.� I don't really like that approach, but that is common.� In this case, there were active requests in this forum to release the program early and let the community help up with any remaining bugs.� Whether it was correct or not to release when they did, that is debatable, but that is the history of it.

The other thing to consider is that there is a group of naysayers that like to make negative posts when a bug shows up.� This has delayed the posting of a public beta build, because bugs do show up from time to time after changes in code are made, and I don't believe either David or Matrix Games want to have to read a bunch of attack posts.� In my opinion, it is a good idea to get an update out just to get all of those old bugs out of the way, and I know David agrees with that.

I must add here that there have been many delays in Release 3 because the beta team has asked for many features and tweaks.� I asked for two tight ends and three running backs, Old Coach asked for�six defensive linemen, nmleague asked for changes in punt returns, we all asked for various updates to the defense, and so on.� There are many examples of the beta team pushing for features that we believed would make the game better and more realistic.� The defense has actually been updated twice in Release 3, and it will likely be updated again afterward.

I personally have kept an eye on the public board and have relayed wishes and feedback from the community as feature posts in the beta board, and I know that David keeps a tab on the opinions of the community members.� That is why positive and constructive feedback is important.

Please read my original post above carefully.� I have given the extremes of the window for getting the Release 3 beta up on the server.� It is important to get it out.� It is important to get more feedback from the community, and it is important for the purchasers of Maximum-Football to get an updated copy in their hands.

< Message edited by Marauders -- 10/27/2006 10:49:05 PM >

(in reply to grrncore)

Post #: 25

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/31/2006 4:16:56 PM

marcntx

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I'm just glad that the game is still being worked on to make it better. How many games have we all bought that were buggy and the patch to make the game worthwhile never came? I can wait.

(in reply to Marauders)

Post #: 26

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 10/31/2006 8:21:48 PM

Frenzy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

Please read my original post above carefully. I have given the extremes of the window for getting the Release 3 beta up on the server. It is important to get it out. It is important to get more feedback from the community, and it is important for the purchasers of Maximum-Football to get an updated copy in their hands.

Agreed. I've actually shelved the game until the next update because of the stats giving me odd results. Hopefully the next build will be better in that area. I'm willing to fire the game back up and provide feedback once the public beta is released but we have to have it in hand to do that!

(in reply to Marauders)

Post #: 27

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 11/1/2006 5:08:36 AM

VTBM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frenzy
Agreed. I've actually shelved the game until the next update because of the stats giving me odd results. Hopefully the next build will be better in that area. I'm willing to fire the game back up and provide feedback once the public beta is released but we have to have it in hand to do that!

I agree. Ive been reading the forums again and I havnt yet bought the game becuase of all these stat bugs and such. I dont understand why the newest patch hasnt been released. I thnk the bugs should have been fixed first before the PDS. Basicly, release a patch with the fix then the pds after. Im not a hater, i think this game has big potential. Just fix the bugs first before you add things.

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Post #: 28

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 11/1/2006 5:40:55 AM

David Winter

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quote:

I agree. Ive been reading the forums again and I havnt yet bought the game becuase of all these stat bugs and such. I dont understand why the newest patch hasnt been released. I thnk the bugs should have been fixed first before the PDS. Basicly, release a patch with the fix then the pds after. Im not a hater, i think this game has big potential. Just fix the bugs first before you add things.

The problem is that a lot of the on field game play bugs could only be addressed by bringing the play design into 3D. Many of the game play problems were the result of the disconnect between building plays on a small 2D section of field, and then trying to use them in 3D. By bringing the PDS into the 3D world allowed me to dig deep into the roots of some of the problems. Heck, if nothing else, being able to instantaneously move from design to practice field was a huge boost to being able to debug things.

The number of improvements to the on field game play could never have been accomplished if the PDS was still a separate 2D based application.

(in reply to VTBM)

Post #: 29

RE: Release 3 - Public Beta - 11/2/2006 2:44:47 AM

Marauders

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quote:

The problem is that a lot of the on field game play bugs could only be addressed by bringing the play design into 3D. Many of the game play problems were the result of the disconnect between building plays on a small 2D section of field, and then trying to use them in 3D.

I agree.

The PDS improvement was asked for by purchasers from release. The disconnect between the PDS utility and the game made play creation and some AI suspect. As I stated above, the move to PDS 2.0 was done in part to keep from having to take the same hill twice - that is, recode the same stuff more than once.

It would have been nice to have a cleaner public release out there, but it would have meant a further delay in Release 3. There are always opportunity costs in every action.

- Marauders

(in reply to David Winter)

Post #: 30