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Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 5:24:18 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		I thought I would separate these out into their own thread. The air unit decsriptions are done but people are still working the naval, and the land are just getting started.


Here are a few examples of each type.




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Perfection is an elusive goal.
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 5:26:30 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		I finally finished formating all 1200 of these. The new writeups are being formatted as they are written, so I am out of that business (yay!).




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Post #: 2
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 5:29:25 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Here are couple of naval writeups.

Anyone who is doing naval writeups and hasn't sent me a few example, please do so. I'll free up some time to review. comment, and post them.




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 3
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 5:30:35 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		She went boom!




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 4
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 5:31:44 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		The HQs writeups are done.




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 5
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 5:36:30 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		6th and last in the series.

Several people are working on writeups for the land units. I have a couple of dozen for German units from Capitan, and here is one of his most recent.

Anyone who is working on writeups for the land units, and hasn't sent me an example, please send me 2 or 3. I will make time to review, comment, and post them.


Thank you everyone who has worked/is working on these. The are a great addition to MWIF.




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 6
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 6:32:48 AM   
Glen Felzien

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 5/21/2000
From: Swan Hills, Alberta, CDN
Status: offline 		Steve,

The JU-87B counter is displayed in the example. The description states that some were converted to a -C varient for carrier operations. The aircraft type states that this -B varient example is a carrier plane. Is this an error, contradiction?

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Glen

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Post #: 7
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 8:11:14 AM   
benpark

 

Posts: 3884
Joined: 8/12/2002
Status: offline 		This game is shaping up to be a compendium of useful info, as well as what looks like the be all and end all of strategic/operational WW2 wargames. Great looking stuff.

_____________________________

"Fear is a darkroom where the devil develops his negatives" Gary Busey

(in reply to Glen Felzien)
Post #: 8
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 8:46:35 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Glen Felzien

Steve,

The JU-87B counter is displayed in the example. The description states that some were converted to a -C varient for carrier operations. The aircraft type states that this -B varient example is a carrier plane. Is this an error, contradiction?

Questions of this sort are welcome. Since Steve is fully occupied with other stuff it is best to raise those points with the appropriate author or team co-ordinator which is:

  • Land HQ plus all Air units - myself (Greyshaft)
  • Naval - Terje
  • Land (sans HQ) - capitan

This leaves Steve free to get on with the coding.

I'll check on the Stuka.

Steve, can you email me the current Air Units.txt so I can start patching as required?

Thanks

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Glen Felzien)
Post #: 9
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 8:48:59 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
quote:

ORIGINAL: Glen Felzien
Steve,

The JU-87B counter is displayed in the example. The description states that some were converted to a -C varient for carrier operations. The aircraft type states that this -B varient example is a carrier plane. Is this an error, contradiction?

Questions of this sort are welcome. Since Steve is fully occupied with other stuff it is best to raise those points with the appropriate author or team co-ordinator which is:

  • Land HQ plus all Air units - myself (Greyshaft)
  • Naval - Terje
  • Land (sans HQ) - capitan

This leaves Steve free to get on with the coding.

I'll check on the Stuka.

Steve, can you email me the current Air Units.txt so I can start patching as required?

Thanks

Thank you. I will.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 10
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 10:41:44 AM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I finally finished formating all 1200 of these. The new writeups are being formatted as they are written, so I am out of that business (yay!).





It's "Sturzkampfbomber" not "sturzkamfflugzeug".

Regards

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 11
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 11:20:30 AM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

She went boom!





Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were never classified or labeled as pocket- battleships.

The Scharnhorst class were battleships with heavy armour (max 13 3/4 inch belt - Bismarck class had max 12 1/2 inch) but only "medium" armament (9x280 mm = 11 inch), because the 280 mm turret was readily available from the pocket battleship class (Deutschland/Lützow, Admiral Scheer, Admiral Graf Spee). Development of the planned 380 mm (15 inch) turret for the Scharnhorst class, which was allowed for by the Anglo-German Naval Agreement of 1935, would have taken some years, so it was decided for sake of Hitler's power-politics, to complete the ships quickly with the lighter armament and to re-arm them later.

As far as I rememeber the term "pocket battleship" was invented in Anglo-American newspapers for the Deutschland-class "armoured ships" ("Panzerschiffe"), as the Reichsmarine labeled them.

The particularity of the construction of the Deutschland class was, that it found a way between international armament restrictions (for Germany the Treaty of Versailles forebade to built larger warships than 10.000 tons, for the USA, GB, France and Japan the Washington treaty made the 10.000 tons "Washington-cruisers" mandatory) and the German naval strategy of cruiser warfare ("Kreuzerkrieg"):

The Reichmarine built a class of ,eehr, 11.700 tons ships, which were more heavily armed and armoured than the Washington cruisers, but faster than enemy battleships.

To counter the threat of the pocket battleships the tactical and strategic concentration of multiple cruisers worked quite well, as the Battle of the Rio de la Plata showed.

Regards

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 12
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 11:47:09 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		I am currently adjusting my early writeups to comply with the later ones. Better to do it now and have them all correct before moving on.

As Steve said please let us see some of your submissions on Landunits.

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 13
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 1:25:36 PM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

It's "Sturzkampfbomber" not "sturzkamfflugzeug".


Thanks for the feedback. I'm not a linguist so I can't toss around the finer points of the language. This may be one of those compromises that we need to live with.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avstuka.html
In the early 1930s, following the rise of Adolf Hitler to power, Germany began to rearm in earnest. One of the items on the military shopping list was a dive bomber, a "Stuka", short for "SturzKampfFlugzeug" (translated literally as "diving combat aircraft")

http://www.bellum.nu/basics/concepts/Ju87tactics.html
Several models were tested and came into use, but the most memorable outcome was the Junkers Ju-87 Stuka ("Sturzkampfflugzeug" = eng"diving fighter airplane").

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

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Post #: 14
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 1:36:30 PM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Glen Felzien
The JU-87B counter is displayed in the example. The description states that some were converted to a -C varient for carrier operations. The aircraft type states that this -B varient example is a carrier plane. Is this an error, contradiction?


Many of the WiF counters represent aggregations of aircraft which necessitated compromises in the naming of the unit. The MWiF counters are exactly as provided in cardboard WiF while the descriptions are based on separate historical research. There are many such examples in the game.

Having said that, I urge you to please keep pointing out these issues. I'm sure there are bugs in the descriptions which will benefit from the eagle-eyed scrutiny of our Forum members.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avstuka.html
[4] JU-87C / JU-87R

* A carrier-capable variant of the Stuka, the "Ju-87C", was planned for the aircraft carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN. The Ju-87C featured:

* A catapult attachment.

* Arresting hook.

* Manually folding outer wing panels.

* Flotation gear built into the airframe.

* A rubber life raft.

* Full cockpit heating.

* Jettisonable main landing gear.

The jettisonable landing gear was a puzzling feature. It clearly made ditching at sea easier, since the fixed landing gear would pitch the aircraft nose-over, and it apparently was also intended to help the crew escape if their Stuka was jumped by enemy fighters, allowing them to get away alive even if they had to splash or belly-in their aircraft. However, Germany never completed any aircraft carriers, and though some preproduction "Ju-87C-0" machines were manufactured beginning in the summer of 1939, the production "Ju-87C-1" variant was never built. It would have featured automatic wing folding.

Some of the Ju-87C-0s saw action in Poland. One had to drop its main landing gear, and German propaganda played up pictures of the machine to suggest that they had been shot off, with the Stuka proving so tough it made it back home anyway. Some of the Ju-87C-0s were also used for various trials. One was fitted with a recoilless forward-firing 88 millimeter gun under the fuselage, with the weapon firing a counterweight backwards to balance the recoil of the shell. However, this scheme came to ruin when the gun misfired and ripped itself out of the belly of the aircraft. The pilot was able to land safely.


_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Glen Felzien)
Post #: 15
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 4:29:47 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		The detail about the capture of a FW-190 is interesting (British Channel? English Channel perhaps?) but there is no mention of the actual characteristics that made this one of the premier piston-engined, multirole fighters of the war. It was a physically small target, had an amazing roll rate, was able to absorb tremendous battle-damage, was capable of enormous development in many roles, had an excellent view from the cockpit and incorporated a highly efficient and compact air-cooled radial engine layout.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 16
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 5:53:44 PM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline 		Deleted post as I saw it was already addressed.

< Message edited by macgregor -- 10/29/2006 6:01:23 PM >

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 17
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/29/2006 9:34:15 PM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

The detail about the capture of a FW-190 is interesting (British Channel? English Channel perhaps?)

I used 'British' rather than 'English' to be alliterative... British v. Bristol ... easy for a poor German pilot flying his first combat mission to confuse the two. Interesting point was that Faber was not a combat pilot. He was an admin staff person who begged to be allowed to fly a combat mission to see what it was like.

quote:

... but there is no mention of the actual characteristics that made this one of the premier piston-engined, multirole fighters of the war.

Correct.. for this particular counter. There are a number of FW190 counters in the game and the technical details are split between them. Sometimes the only difference between MWiF counters is a minor change in armament (Me-109 was a real pain in this regard)and it is an interesting exercise to find something new to say about each version of an aircraft. See for example the FW-190A...

.T The FW-190 first flew in June 1939 and outclassed its Bf-109 older sister in everything except high-altitude performance over 6,000m. The FW-190A0 began deployment into the Luftwaffe’s frontline squadrons in late 1940 for familiarisation purposes. Although the FW-190A easily outflew the RAF fighters that it met, its armament was clearly inadequate for the task.
.H
.B The FW-190A's 1,600hp engine gave it a top speed of 626kph.
.B Armament was four 7.9mm machine guns split between the cowling and the wing roots.
.B Later planes added two 20mm underwing cannon.

< Message edited by Greyshaft -- 10/29/2006 9:41:40 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 1:38:12 AM   
hazpak

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		Apologies i was away all weekend and only just back up on the forums i'll pick out a few of the Japanese units and send them in hopefully tonight (my time). But i'm not happy yet with the level of detail I have for them.

Haz.

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 19
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 4:02:46 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Here are a couple of writeups from new guys. This one is by Wosung.

(Gee, there seems to be a lot of material on this unit - if you can read Chinese.)




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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 20
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 4:05:52 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		2nd and last in series.

And at the other extreme of available material are the units for the countries that were clever/lucky enough to remain neutral throughout the war.

These are by CBoehm.




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 21
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 8:36:08 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Hi CBoehm,
Nice work. Just a couple of points.
In the description for CA Aran you use the expression "for and aft". I think it is spelt "fore and aft".
In the following sentence you refer to "secondary armaments". I think it is usually expressed in the singular ie "secondary armament" (without the 's')

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Post #: 22
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 9:38:06 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I finally finished formating all 1200 of these. The new writeups are being formatted as they are written, so I am out of that business (yay!).




I'd have a comment about the German plane here.
The normal designation of German planes is Fw190A-1 rather than Fw-190A1. It can also be Fw 190A-1.
The dash is between the main model and the sub model.
You should edit these, because it is not very "learned" looking when you read and know it.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 23
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 9:41:51 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here are a couple of writeups from new guys. This one is by Wosung.
(Gee, there seems to be a lot of material on this unit - if you can read Chinese.)

This one is great reading, wow, I'm impressed with all those write ups.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 24
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 9:50:45 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		"Burn all, kill all, confiscate everything". Ok...no more Mr Nice Guy!

"The enemy advances, we also advance". That's going to lead to a collision.

I love these Asian slogans. I think the combination of an Asian country and Communism must be a slogan writer's paradise. I remember they had one in North Korea recently called "Let's eat two meals!"

And how about that Swedish ship? "The Manliness". Crews preferred it to serving on "The Runs Like a Girl" or "The Enjoys Flower Arranging and Amateur Theatre".

A submarine called "The Wolf" is pretty cool though.

Excellent write-ups.

Cheers, Neilster


< Message edited by Neilster -- 10/30/2006 9:54:19 AM >

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 25
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 10:01:58 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
The normal designation of German planes is Fw190A-1 rather than Fw-190A1. It can also be Fw 190A-1.
The dash is between the main model and the sub model.

Thanks.
I'll put that on the list of 'must-do' edits


_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 26
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 10:02:56 AM   
CBoehm

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

Hi CBoehm,
Nice work. Just a couple of points.
In the description for CA Aran you use the expression "for and aft". I think it is spelt "fore and aft".
In the following sentence you refer to "secondary armaments". I think it is usually expressed in the singular ie "secondary armament" (without the 's')


ups the fore and aft ...I knew must have missed that somehow ...secondary armament hmm guess I really should know that one too...I'll correct them ASAP.

Claus

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 27
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 10:08:36 AM   
CBoehm

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

And how about that Swedish ship? "The Manliness". Crews preferred it to serving on "The Runs Like a Girl" or "The Enjoys Flower Arranging and Amateur Theatre".

A submarine called "The Wolf" is pretty cool though.


yeah I thought it would add a bit of color to translate the names. :)

...reminds me about a novel I read some time ago where there was this great indistructable warship called "The Unsinkeble" ...then after she hit an iceberg and sank the next ship was named "The Unsinkeble II" ...which blew up in an accident ...when the name "Unsinkeble III" was then proposed for the newest warship it was reluctantly turned down ...

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 28
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 10:47:07 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
The normal designation of German planes is Fw190A-1 rather than Fw-190A1. It can also be Fw 190A-1.
The dash is between the main model and the sub model.

Thanks.
I'll put that on the list of 'must-do' edits


Patrice sent me several guidelines explaining how to abbreviate the air units for different countries, and for some, the branches of the armed forces within a country. I used them for how the abbreviations appear on the units. They're around here somewhere ...

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 29
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/30/2006 11:01:08 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hazpak

Apologies i was away all weekend and only just back up on the forums i'll pick out a few of the Japanese units and send them in hopefully tonight (my time). But i'm not happy yet with the level of detail I have for them.

Haz.



You can always go back and improve on them at a later date if you wish.


(in reply to hazpak)
Post #: 30
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