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Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 7:14:15 AM   
ATCSMike


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: North Pole, Alaska
Status: offline 		How do I increase the amount of aviation support at a base. I can't find it in the manual.

Port Moresby has a requirement of 134 and I have 55 split between the 2 base forces. Will those increase (how) or do I have to move an Aviation Rgt in?

What's the procedure to load units for air transport? I can't load them for some reason. I know I'm doing something wrong, but don't know what. Where in the manual is it?

Mike

_____________________________

'Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati'
("When all else fails, play DEAD")

United States Navy 1979-1982
Retired Aviation Machinists Mate 2nd Class
VT-23, HS-1, USS Carl Vinson CVN70 (Plank Owner)
Retired Air Traffic Control Specialist (ATCS)
Post #: 1
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 7:28:55 AM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ATCSMike

How do I increase the amount of aviation support at a base. I can't find it in the manual.

Port Moresby has a requirement of 134 and I have 55 split between the 2 base forces. Will those increase (how) or do I have to move an Aviation Rgt in?

What's the procedure to load units for air transport? I can't load them for some reason. I know I'm doing something wrong, but don't know what. Where in the manual is it?

Mike



p144 describes ready + diabled current strength, on lcu info screen press show toe strength to see max strength of unit, see also logistics and replacements in manual.

_____________________________

Witp-AE
AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

(in reply to ATCSMike)
Post #: 2
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 7:31:39 AM   
YankeeAirRat


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		You will need to move in an additional base forces they are usually listed as engineering units on the ground unit screens at a base.  If you look at a base force in the ground unit selection screen and then click on the unit, you should see a line item that lists aviation support x N. The "N" should be a number and that will tell you how much additional aviation support they will add to your air base.

So for example at Port Morseby you should see a unit that is labeled "101st Base Force" in the ground unit screen they are the one that are providing avaition support to your airbase.

_____________________________

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(in reply to ATCSMike)
Post #: 3
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 7:45:55 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
quote:

Will those increase


There is talk in the manual of Base Forces expanding to the size of the base. This is only for the AI. A human players BFs never gain more air support. If you need more air support at a base, you need to move another (or mulitple) base forces in.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to ATCSMike)
Post #: 4
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 7:52:48 AM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Oh, if you want to transport lcu use a/c like C-47 or flying boats you can tell by looking in the a/c group info scrn, first select destination then unit then whether to transport or to pickup and that's it. the unit has to belong to a non-restricted command.

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AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

(in reply to ATCSMike)
Post #: 5
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 8:00:55 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Be careful about using air transport for base force units. I know that the radars that are endemic to allied base force units cannot be carried by aircraft. You will find that if you only use air transport to deliver your base forces to their destination, you will leave behind some very important fragments.

This is, of course, on top of the problems that air transported units have with disappearing!

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to BigJ62)
Post #: 6
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 8:05:03 AM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline 		True I normally transport pure aviation rgts. However I've never suffered from disappearances.

< Message edited by BigJ62 -- 11/3/2006 8:09:32 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 8:06:07 AM   
ATCSMike


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: North Pole, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

You will need to move in an additional base forces they are usually listed as engineering units on the ground unit screens at a base. If you look at a base force in the ground unit selection screen and then click on the unit, you should see a line item that lists aviation support x N. The "N" should be a number and that will tell you how much additional aviation support they will add to your air base.

So for example at Port Morseby you should see a unit that is labeled "101st Base Force" in the ground unit screen they are the one that are providing avaition support to your airbase.


I knew ENG units had a aviation support component just didn't know if it increased in game.

_____________________________

'Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati'
("When all else fails, play DEAD")

United States Navy 1979-1982
Retired Aviation Machinists Mate 2nd Class
VT-23, HS-1, USS Carl Vinson CVN70 (Plank Owner)
Retired Air Traffic Control Specialist (ATCS)

(in reply to YankeeAirRat)
Post #: 8
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 8:07:46 AM   
ATCSMike


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: North Pole, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

quote:

Will those increase


There is talk in the manual of Base Forces expanding to the size of the base. This is only for the AI. A human players BFs never gain more air support. If you need more air support at a base, you need to move another (or mulitple) base forces in.

-F-


I kind of thought that was the deal but not sure.

Mike

_____________________________

'Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati'
("When all else fails, play DEAD")

United States Navy 1979-1982
Retired Aviation Machinists Mate 2nd Class
VT-23, HS-1, USS Carl Vinson CVN70 (Plank Owner)
Retired Air Traffic Control Specialist (ATCS)

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 9
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 8:12:14 AM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ATCSMike

quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

You will need to move in an additional base forces they are usually listed as engineering units on the ground unit screens at a base. If you look at a base force in the ground unit selection screen and then click on the unit, you should see a line item that lists aviation support x N. The "N" should be a number and that will tell you how much additional aviation support they will add to your air base.

So for example at Port Morseby you should see a unit that is labeled "101st Base Force" in the ground unit screen they are the one that are providing avaition support to your airbase.


I knew ENG units had a aviation support component just didn't know if it increased in game.



I think they will if they are below their TOE and the base has sufficient supplies. Somebody?

_____________________________

Witp-AE
AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

(in reply to ATCSMike)
Post #: 10
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 8:12:49 AM   
worr

 

Posts: 901
Joined: 2/7/2001
Status: offline 		I recommend building up AV support before moving an ENG unit to a forward base.

I've found you'll build up the unit much quicker sitting in San Fransico another month rather than taking the first ship to Port Morsbey and hoping the rest of the units and equipment catch up with you later.


(in reply to ATCSMike)
Post #: 11
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 8:40:23 AM   
ATCSMike


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: North Pole, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Oh, if you want to transport lcu use a/c like C-47 or flying boats you can tell by looking in the a/c group info scrn, first select destination then unit then whether to transport or to pickup and that's it. the unit has to belong to a non-restricted command.


Thanks. I played around with it and got the C47's to transport the units. I am a little confused about the pickup troops option though. Is that used to pick up from another base, ie: C47's at Townsville, the unit for transport is at Cooktown and you want to transport them to PM? Is that what it's used for?

Mike

_____________________________

'Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati'
("When all else fails, play DEAD")

United States Navy 1979-1982
Retired Aviation Machinists Mate 2nd Class
VT-23, HS-1, USS Carl Vinson CVN70 (Plank Owner)
Retired Air Traffic Control Specialist (ATCS)

(in reply to BigJ62)
Post #: 12
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 8:56:16 AM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ATCSMike

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Oh, if you want to transport lcu use a/c like C-47 or flying boats you can tell by looking in the a/c group info scrn, first select destination then unit then whether to transport or to pickup and that's it. the unit has to belong to a non-restricted command.


Thanks. I played around with it and got the C47's to transport the units. I am a little confused about the pickup troops option though. Is that used to pick up from another base, ie: C47's at Townsville, the unit for transport is at Cooktown and you want to transport them to PM? Is that what it's used for?

Mike



Not quite say you want to pick up a unit at Cooktown from Townsville - it's the reverse from transport, but you have start the sequence as if you were going to transport then hit the pickup button,then select the unit hope that made sense. I finally deduced what your problem really was you've got two bf's w/30 av apiece so yea you're going to need more or get one of those big av units + a unit w/engineers and use those other two somewhere else.

_____________________________

Witp-AE
AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

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Post #: 13
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 9:52:34 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

There is talk in the manual of Base Forces expanding to the size of the base. This is only for the AI. A human players BFs never gain more air support. If you need more air support at a base, you need to move another (or mulitple) base forces in.


I have seen base units increase to larger than when they arrived, but the expansion happens very slowly. After many months the units that have grown have only added 10 to 15 aviation support. I haven't figured out how or why they grow.

Bill

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 14
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 10:06:23 AM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

There is talk in the manual of Base Forces expanding to the size of the base. This is only for the AI. A human players BFs never gain more air support. If you need more air support at a base, you need to move another (or mulitple) base forces in.


I have seen base units increase to larger than when they arrived, but the expansion happens very slowly. After many months the units that have grown have only added 10 to 15 aviation support. I haven't figured out how or why they grow.

Bill



Do you mean larger than their TOE? I've seen units start the game with more but eventually decrease over time.

_____________________________

Witp-AE
AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 15
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 10:33:34 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I have seen base units increase to larger than when they arrived, but the expansion happens very slowly. After many months the units that have grown have only added 10 to 15 aviation support. I haven't figured out how or why they grow.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62
Do you mean larger than their TOE? I've seen units start the game with more but eventually decrease over time.


Yes. For example a 30 Av support unit might grow to around 40. If I click on the TOE button, it shows the TOE still says 30. Only a few units have done this. Most have some disabled squads after being at the front for a while. For some reason, one base support unit at Rabaul has been loosing av support right and left. It started out at 270 and is down to close to 200.

Bill

(in reply to BigJ62)
Post #: 16
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 2:26:30 PM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Interesting, I wonder if these units not just bf's but any units that do not match their TOE at game start result in strange behavior of this sort, even the editor manual cautions against this by saying unexpexted results may occur. I've been meaning to look for clear examples like this but have never done any serious testing, I do know a lot of units start out with slight mismatches in their TOE's and few that are even worst. But, in the case where they do match and you still get this behavior then who can say what's causing this.

_____________________________

Witp-AE
AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

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Post #: 17
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 2:45:01 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Have many types of units to grow oversized. I for example have Soviet Tank Division in CHS now at (519/519).... Probably a bug. 

(in reply to BigJ62)
Post #: 18
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 2:47:10 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		I've seen some units expand to 125% TOE but the % is shown in the top line of the unit screen something like 110/125 so units do grow bigger , esp happens in the west coast. one arty unit went to 150% TOE after i pulled it back from being in palmyra for almost 18 months.

One major annoyance is the rebuilding of Fragments after combat, always never arrive at the theatre HQ, usually townsville and Canton for some wierd reason . pain finding and shipping tham to the main unit.

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sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

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Post #: 19
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 3:03:45 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		I think it's said somewhere that units can grow over their TOE when there is lots of excess supply/HQ available.

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)
Post #: 20
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 3:41:50 PM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline 		All I could find in the manual was that normally a unit will get one of each replacement item (per day I assume)if needed as long as it's TOE is greater than ready + diabled of that item plus they're in range of a base with twice its supply, but sometimes the unit can get 2 items if it passes a series of checks.

_____________________________

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AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

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Post #: 21
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 3:44:22 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		I think it was statement by one of the Betas/programmers/someone on forum...buit as usual, could be wrong...

(in reply to BigJ62)
Post #: 22
RE: Aviation Support - 11/3/2006 3:52:52 PM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Might be some code they left in by mistake and what you said kind of sounds familiar, just not sure.

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Witp-AE
AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

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Post #: 23
RE: Aviation Support - 11/4/2006 5:07:44 AM   
ATCSMike


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: North Pole, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I have seen base units increase to larger than when they arrived, but the expansion happens very slowly. After many months the units that have grown have only added 10 to 15 aviation support. I haven't figured out how or why they grow.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62
Do you mean larger than their TOE? I've seen units start the game with more but eventually decrease over time.


Yes. For example a 30 Av support unit might grow to around 40. If I click on the TOE button, it shows the TOE still says 30. Only a few units have done this. Most have some disabled squads after being at the front for a while. For some reason, one base support unit at Rabaul has been loosing av support right and left. It started out at 270 and is down to close to 200.

Bill


Sounds like deserters to me.

Mike

_____________________________

'Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati'
("When all else fails, play DEAD")

United States Navy 1979-1982
Retired Aviation Machinists Mate 2nd Class
VT-23, HS-1, USS Carl Vinson CVN70 (Plank Owner)
Retired Air Traffic Control Specialist (ATCS)

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 24
RE: Aviation Support - 11/4/2006 5:47:23 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		In general player's LCUs wont take replacements over the value shown in the TOE. But a number of units start off over their TOE.

But sometimes with fragmented units, the number of devices in the parent is less than TOE because the fragments can't be located (total devices should be the sum of the parent and the fragments). And thus gain replacement devices.
And then the fragment shows up and merges/increases the device total.
Plus, there are/were some cases (which confuses things) where the LCU is given a particular TOE but the device list of the unit defined in the editor does not agree with the TOE list.

_____________________________

Michael

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Post #: 25
RE: Aviation Support - 11/4/2006 6:37:34 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		You really should replace that unit with a fresh one and send it back to a non-malarial base. You've got soldiers dying in that rathole...

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 26
RE: Aviation Support - 11/4/2006 9:34:36 AM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

In general player's LCUs wont take replacements over the value shown in the TOE. But a number of units start off over their TOE.

But sometimes with fragmented units, the number of devices in the parent is less than TOE because the fragments can't be located (total devices should be the sum of the parent and the fragments). And thus gain replacement devices.
And then the fragment shows up and merges/increases the device total.
Plus, there are/were some cases (which confuses things) where the LCU is given a particular TOE but the device list of the unit defined in the editor does not agree with the TOE list.



That's what I've got with some of my units so, I just turn off replaements until one of them is destroyed which in my case shouldn't be much longer. Is there not a rule somewhere that states that when the percent of disabled outnumber the ready some of the items will start to die off or something like that? If so where?

Thanks

_____________________________

Witp-AE
AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 27
RE: Aviation Support - 11/4/2006 4:11:07 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		I'm not sure whether it is in TFM, but I believe when an LCU has greater than 50% disablements, some portion of additional disablements are destroyed instead.

Edit: OK, here's what I was thinking of:

14.4 Supply/Fatigue Effects on LCUs

When a unit's fatigue level gets high, elements of the unit will slowly become disabled. When a unit has more disabled elements than non-disabled, it will begin to have elements destroyed instead of just disabled due to high fatigue.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 11/4/2006 4:20:36 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Aviation Support - 11/4/2006 4:36:55 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

You really should replace that unit with a fresh one and send it back to a non-malarial base. You've got soldiers dying in that rathole...



My dad spent about 2 1/2 years at Port Moresby during the war and I never recall him mentioning a malaria problem.

Another question that's to late to ask him.

< Message edited by Buck Beach -- 11/4/2006 4:42:46 PM >

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 29
RE: Aviation Support - 11/4/2006 5:33:33 PM   
BigJ62


Posts: 1800
Joined: 12/28/2002
From: Alpharetta, Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

I'm not sure whether it is in TFM, but I believe when an LCU has greater than 50% disablements, some portion of additional disablements are destroyed instead.

Edit: OK, here's what I was thinking of:

14.4 Supply/Fatigue Effects on LCUs

When a unit's fatigue level gets high, elements of the unit will slowly become disabled. When a unit has more disabled elements than non-disabled, it will begin to have elements destroyed instead of just disabled due to high fatigue.



That's exactly what I was looking, must have gone right passed it, thanks.

_____________________________

Witp-AE
AeAi…AeAi …AeAi…Long live AeAi.

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 30
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