why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to stay ????

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Tech Support >> why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to stay ????

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why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to sta... - 11/8/2006 12:18:29 PM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
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i'm pissed off
it is bug

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RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/8/2006 12:57:00 PM

Halsey

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
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It's the TF commanders aggressiveness rating.

Was it set to follow a SCTF, or was it operating on its own?

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RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/8/2006 5:00:32 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sneer

i'm pissed off
it is bug

It's been said 11 million times that TF commanders can and do go off on their own if they feel the odds are in their favour. It's meant to be that way, so stop calling it a bug; it's not.

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 3

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/9/2006 10:27:35 AM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
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3 carriers against death star ?
unknown logic not counting abandoning formation
so if it is a feature

it is calculated wierdly

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Post #: 4

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/9/2006 11:06:19 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

... or if they feel that they will be in greater danger not reacting by being within enemy range but out of their own planes' range and not able to launch effective strikes of their own.

(in reply to Sneer)

Post #: 5

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/9/2006 1:54:21 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sneer

i'm pissed off
it is bug

It's been said 11 million times that TF commanders can and do go off on their own if they feel the odds are in their favour. It's meant to be that way, so stop calling it a bug; it's not.

The design needs work because damaged CVs with no planes still react towards enemy CVs when they would retire IRL.

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Post #: 6

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/9/2006 1:57:34 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

The design needs work because damaged CVs with no planes still react towards enemy CVs when they would retire IRL.

Ouch!

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Post #: 7

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/9/2006 6:08:57 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

quote:

TF commanders can and do go off on their own if they feel the odds are in their favour.

Unfortunately, -most- TF commanders in WitP are evidently collossally stupid.

I feel your pain Sneer.� Been there, done that.� And no, I did NOT have overly agressive admirals (Halsy) in my TF�(just the default captains).

In one game, -ALL- of my 0-react CV TFs reacted into LBA range, got attacked in AM by LBA (disrupted CAP), then got stomped by by KB in the afternoon.

It was not a happy day.

I agree, if you say "no react" it shoud mean "no react".

Bug.
-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 11/9/2006 6:14:59 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/9/2006 6:31:58 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Pauk has suffered from this a lot !!!

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Post #: 9

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 1:11:11 AM

Halsey

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Joined: 2/7/2004
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Your reposte justifies my reasoning for not answering questions on this forum much anymore.

What you describe, I've never had happen to me in FOUR years using the UV/WITP engine.
The reason?
I know the mechanics.

I won't explain again how to prepare and initiate a CV vs CV action.
It's been explained a gozillian times already.

It's just like school.
If you don't pay attention, you will fail.

Now I understand a little more of Mr Frags attitude when he posted on this forum.
Poor gameplay isn't always a bug in the game mechanics.

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Post #: 10

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 1:33:38 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Your reposte justifies my reasoning for not answering questions on this forum much anymore.

What you describe, I've never had happen to me in FOUR years using the UV/WITP engine.
The reason?
I know the mechanics.

I won't explain again how to prepare and initiate a CV vs CV action.
It's been explained a gozillian times already.

It's just like school.
If you don't pay attention, you will fail.

Now I understand a little more of Mr Frags attitude when he posted on this forum.
Poor gameplay isn't always a bug in the game mechanics.

You've never had your CVs react towards the enemy CVs?

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Halsey)

Post #: 11

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 1:40:05 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Your reposte justifies my reasoning for not answering questions on this forum much anymore.

What you describe, I've never had happen to me in FOUR years using the UV/WITP engine.
The reason?
I know the mechanics.

I won't explain again how to prepare and initiate a CV vs CV action.
It's been explained a gozillian times already.

It's just like school.
If you don't pay attention, you will fail.

Now I understand a little more of Mr Frags attitude when he posted on this forum.
Poor gameplay isn't always a bug in the game mechanics.

Frag was vehement in his denial of the existance of "UberCAP" so I would not be so quick to blame poor gameplay and defend poor game design mechanics.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Halsey)

Post #: 12

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 2:04:35 AM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

"Poor design" is not the same as a "bug"...

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Post #: 13

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 2:29:42 AM

VSWG

Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Your reposte justifies my reasoning for not answering questions on this forum much anymore.

What you describe, I've never had happen to me in FOUR years using the UV/WITP engine.
The reason?
I know the mechanics.

I won't explain again how to prepare and initiate a CV vs CV action.
It's been explained a gozillian times already.

It's just like school.
If you don't pay attention, you will fail.

Now I understand a little more of Mr Frags attitude when he posted on this forum.
Poor gameplay isn't always a bug in the game mechanics.

Link?

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Post #: 14

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 6:18:50 AM

Yakface

Posts: 846
Joined: 8/5/2006
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I for one (as a relatively new player) would appreciate another explanation Halsey

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Post #: 15

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 7:08:06 AM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

YF,

Halsey is -correct- in that it the reaction is due to the commander's aggression rating.

It's just that it's not a terribly popular "feature" (I know I called it a "bug" in previous post, call it frustration).

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 11/10/2006 7:12:40 AM >

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Post #: 16

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 10:23:17 AM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
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it was 7th or 8 th carrier combat in this PBEM not counting other ones
i had few TF merging in rear areas of my teritory
pity
now 3 fleet carriers are within 40 sys what means 4 months out of duty and enemy is at gates

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Post #: 17

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 3:11:22 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Your reposte justifies my reasoning for not answering questions on this forum much anymore.

What you describe, I've never had happen to me in FOUR years using the UV/WITP engine.
The reason?
I know the mechanics.

I won't explain again how to prepare and initiate a CV vs CV action.
It's been explained a gozillian times already.

It's just like school.
If you don't pay attention, you will fail.

Now I understand a little more of Mr Frags attitude when he posted on this forum.
Poor gameplay isn't always a bug in the game mechanics.

Well, i had reaction too... despite leaders low aggression ratings, despite "ordered to follow SC TF"....

even more funny, my CVs didn't move at all during night phase when they are ordered....they stay in the same hex!

poor gameplay... yes....

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Post #: 18

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 4:34:27 PM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sneer

i'm pissed off
it is bug

It's been said 11 million times that TF commanders can and do go off on their own if they feel the odds are in their favour. It's meant to be that way, so stop calling it a bug; it's not.

The design needs work because damaged CVs with no planes still react towards enemy CVs when they would retire IRL.

I've also had a report that ACTF with all carriers sunk still react towards enemy CVs (Nagumo?). Carriers reacting has certainly been around since UV days, though it seems like there were examples (Saipan) where the "no react" order stood and perhaps (depending on who we think is issuing the orders) Leyete might be an example of the "no react" order being disobeyed.

Whether "bug" or "feature" ... question is should it be changed .. and how important is it when compared to other things? Many things "should be changed" .. but not everything is in the top 5.

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Post #: 19

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 4:39:00 PM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline

react 0 is react 0
if commander was the only in this fleet gropu ok - but he was not

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RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 5:22:14 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

J - I know someone would bring up Halsey at Leyte. But were Halsey's orders actually to sit on top of the invasion TF at all costs? If I'm not mistaken (and I might well be), his orders were to cover the landings and engage enemy TFs. Just because the Japanese ruse actually worked, doesn't mean he was disobeying orders (which is what we would percieve a reaction when set to 0 would be).

Either way, it's the ONE example that folks will offer to justify reacting when they shouldn't. It happens ALL THE TIME in WitP. If it happend historically as often as it does in WitP, Hornet would have chared after KB at Midway, and Lex would have lone-rangerd after Shok and Zui at Coral Sea.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. ONE historical instance does not justify a frequent occurance in WitP.

-F-

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"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

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Post #: 21

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 6:25:01 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sneer

i'm pissed off
it is bug

It's been said 11 million times that TF commanders can and do go off on their own if they feel the odds are in their favour. It's meant to be that way, so stop calling it a bug; it's not.

The design needs work because damaged CVs with no planes still react towards enemy CVs when they would retire IRL.

I've also had a report that ACTF with all carriers sunk still react towards enemy CVs (Nagumo?). Carriers reacting has certainly been around since UV days, though it seems like there were examples (Saipan) where the "no react" order stood and perhaps (depending on who we think is issuing the orders) Leyete might be an example of the "no react" order being disobeyed.

Whether "bug" or "feature" ... question is should it be changed .. and how important is it when compared to other things? Many things "should be changed" .. but not everything is in the top 5.

I applaud the fact that you guys are intending to change some things.

Is A2A one of the biggest and a front burner? If so, should we all pipe up and impart our views on the issues in a constructive suggestion thread?

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 22

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 7:23:59 PM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

Is A2A one of the biggest and a front burner? If so, should we all pipe up and impart our views on the issues in a constructive suggestion thread?

I would certainly think so.

Yes we should pipe ... but lemme cogitate a bit longer on the best format in which to pipe ... don't wanna burn out the pipes b4 we're ready ... will be soon ...

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Post #: 23

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 7:37:28 PM

VSWG

Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

Is A2A one of the biggest and a front burner? If so, should we all pipe up and impart our views on the issues in a constructive suggestion thread?

I would certainly think so.

Yes we should pipe ... but lemme cogitate a bit longer on the best format in which to pipe ... don't wanna burn out the pipes b4 we're ready ... will be soon ...

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Post #: 24

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/10/2006 7:47:00 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

Roger...love you long time!

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 25

RE: why this f****** cv react when they are ordered to... - 11/11/2006 7:14:57 AM

Redan

Posts: 129
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: a Quonset hut in Shangri-la
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

J - I know someone would bring up Halsey at Leyte. But were Halsey's orders actually to sit on top of the invasion TF at all costs? If I'm not mistaken (and I might well be), his orders were to cover the landings and engage enemy TFs. Just because the Japanese ruse actually worked, doesn't mean he was disobeying orders (which is what we would percieve a reaction when set to 0 would be).

Either way, it's the ONE example that folks will offer to justify reacting when they shouldn't. It happens ALL THE TIME in WitP. If it happend historically as often as it does in WitP, Hornet would have chared after KB at Midway, and Lex would have lone-rangerd after Shok and Zui at Coral Sea.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. ONE historical instance does not justify a frequent occurance in WitP.

-F-

Spruance caught hell four months before at the Saipan invasion for NOT going after the Japanese carriers. Oddly enough, the thing that may have set Halsey off was a filler phrase in the code...After every real sentence in the transmissions to Halsey a fake "filler" sentence was added. One of the filler transmissions was something like "The world wonders" in close proximity to Where are your carriers? King, Marshall and Roosevelt were in the Oval Office listening to a live feed of all the radio traffic...more exciting than Sirius or XM, no?

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 26

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