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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War I] >> War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930 >> Can Someone Explain This To Me?

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Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/9/2006 1:52:48 AM

JagdFlanker

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this never happened until the recent patch. it might be argued they are avoiding the enemy but i assure you there is no enemy to avoid in all cases - especially the subs. it seems to only happen to 1 or 2 TF's per turn.

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/9/2006 1:53:18 AM

JagdFlanker

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/9/2006 1:53:53 AM

JagdFlanker

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/9/2006 1:54:15 AM

JagdFlanker

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/9/2006 3:42:27 AM

JagdFlanker

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/9/2006 7:51:33 AM

Helpless

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That's famous WITP pathfinding routines

. Think it always been in WPO as well.

Try to check the aggressiveness of leader. Sometimes remaking the order in smaller steps might work, i.e. first order to sail into "dangerous" waters, then to to the place over it.

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/9/2006 9:58:37 AM

Matto

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It ussually means submarine on the direct path ...

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/10/2006 2:56:24 AM

Count dTen

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Actually, I love it. I've been trying to get my anti-merchant cruisers to do something like that. Whenever I plot a destination, it goes straight for it. So I have to gently persuade it to wander by putting in new end points every turn. How do you get someone to cruise out into "dangerous waters"?

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/16/2006 12:18:46 AM

Oliver Heindorf

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this means that subs are in the area, in the direct path of the TF. you should leave it that way if you want to avoid being torpedoed.

another question :

what kind of map is that ? I have these icons, I think its an very old release of theicons only and iirc, sub chaser used them too in his famous map.

the water and the letters for the bases are for sure from subchaser as well, although the water has been a bit modyfied in some areas near costal hexes.

the landscape looks absolutly new to me and I have no clue who did that.

can someone enlighten me which map is it above and where to get it and who the author is.

thanks in advance !

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/16/2006 12:20:38 AM

Helpless

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This is IMHO Cobra's map. Subchaser's map for WPO is available as well

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/16/2006 12:24:02 AM

Oliver Heindorf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

This is IMHO Cobra's map. Subchaser's map for WPO is available as well

where to get it ?

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/16/2006 12:54:07 AM

Helpless

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I have uploaded hex Cobra's map to
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ydsl5j

SC map also on my sendspace
http://www.sendspace.com/file/s6mrvu

Cobra promised to put both to his lair
http://www.prycom.net/cobra_aus/index.html

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/16/2006 2:06:28 AM

JagdFlanker

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there were no reported subs that i had personally seen in that area, and even if there were i have many more examples of my ships ignoring subs that WERE reported and sailing right near/on them (and sometimes getting torped - i just HAD to learn the hard way...) but more importantly why are my subs doing it? what are they afraid of? funny my merches NEVER ever have this problem, only warships - the merches have my worst captains and my warships the best. why are my worst captains doing what they'r told and my best ignoring my orders? i know there's nothing that can be done, but it's happening more and more and i'm not happy about having to babysit my ships so they go where they are told!

i trolled through some of the WitP mods and saw if they looked good (most didn't) - i also have some really nice cloud ikons but i forget what they are called. the new flags are called WitP Icon Mod.zip but i forget where exactly i got them or who made them

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/26/2006 4:43:49 AM

JagdFlanker

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this TF left PH to go to midway a few turns ago - this is very rapidly sucking away my will to play the game...

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/26/2006 11:15:39 AM

Helpless

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That's a little bit of extreme. I never seen such "walkarounds" by myself.

I've seen that TF can change the course depending of situation on the way. For example, evacuation TF from PI first plotted the course through the Guam. Turns later after Guam was attacked, course has changed to avoid it.

If you play AI, have you tried to load Japanese side to see what happens in the these "dangerous" waters? Do you have auto sub on?

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/26/2006 3:01:51 PM

JagdFlanker

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this is a PBEM game, that TF contains 4 DM's, and auto subs are NOT on. my opponent has NO cases of this happening to him, and he's been hearing me whine about it for a month now. my subs do this very often also - mostly on their way back to base to refuel they take the loooong way and end up running out of fuel. there's no reason for subs returning to base to take a zig-zag course when they are immune to almost anything except DD's and enemy aircraft - none of which are anywhere near PH! actually that DM TF is almost garanteed to run out of fuel before it hits miday - it's just silly....

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/26/2006 9:47:03 PM

Helpless

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hmm... as I see there is a sub in the Johnston Island. Could be that TF is trying to avoid this "danger". But it is very odd to see it here on the route from PH to Midway.

As workaround you may try to form a SC TF and then use other type TF to follow it. This is widely used tactics to force AC TF to pass the coastal hexes. Not sure if this will help in your case.

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/27/2006 9:45:49 AM

Shoot Me_I Explode

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That's very strange

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/28/2006 6:11:32 AM

Tankerace

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The pathfinding can be wierd occasionally. Usually because of commander's taking "initiative" to bypass submarines.

I would manually route the TF around the submarine, or use shorter distances so that "commander's discrestion" can't bite you in the butt.

I've had it happen to me a few times, and it is annoying. But I have also cursed it not happening when a shiny new dreadnought ate two torpedoes. That said I am concerned about it going all the way around to the south, instead of a northern route to Midway. My initial guess would be since they are DMs, they chose to retreat from danger. Also, what is the commander rating on the TF commander?

As to subs running out of fuel, do they have enough fuel to make the base when you assign the destination? Also again what are the commander ratings? I understand that in hindsight and "god's eye" view of the world submarines are pretty immune. But in wartime, they (the submarine COs) don't know that. Fuel or no, they are going to zig zag and obey wartime SOP. My first thought would be to use submarines historically... i.e. no patrols from Pearl to Japan, H and R boats along the coast of the US, PI, New Guinea, or no further out than Midway. If 1920s pig boats are used like 1940s fleet boats, the results will be a bit screwy. The AI (that routes the actual task force, determines ratings, etc) will want to choose what it thinks is an acceptable route for the boat. It might be the best route to go from Japan to Pearl. The problem is that the subs in question couldn't realistically make the distance.

Remember, as a stark reminder to distance capabilities: the S boats that are at the PI (as per history) got there by being carried on Merchant ship hulls. They did not have the endurance to sail from PH to PI, even on a one way trip. A war patrol would have been impossible. Use of S boats against Japan from any base other than Asia, the PI, or at a reach Wake would simply not have happened. As to the coastal boats, average time at sea, at the most, was estimated at 14 days. 10 was the norm. In the WitP mindset you are used to 60-90 day patrols. In WPO 2 week patrols are a stretch, as it should be.

If you aren't using the boats that way, let me know. Some wacky pathfinding is not only OK, but desireable. Submarine captains did have considerable leeway, and should even when under "human control." Completely absurd pathfinding and historic use is not 100% acceptable.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 11/28/2006 6:18:29 AM >

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/28/2006 6:19:13 AM

Tankerace

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Also forgot to mention (looking at your Japanese held Midway example). Aircraft are mere toys yes, but even BBs will not go dangerously near them. Keep in mind, WPO takes place after Billy Mitchell dropped Christmas presents on the Ostfriesland. Aircraft may not sink a BB in open water, but it can dang sure put it out of action. Even if the only aircraft are a few busted up Sopwith Pups, a Battleship commander won't risk his 1.5million dollar dreadnought unnecessarily.

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RE: Can Someone Explain This To Me? - 11/28/2006 7:28:53 PM

JagdFlanker

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BB's - sure, that's reasonable. subs - they all have my best captains, and regardless of where they patrol (and they all patrol a good distance from friendly bases), if they are going back to base low on fuel no sane captain is going to go out of their way to risk running out of fuel so close to base - mabe the snall chance getting hit by aircraft is bad, but running out of fuel and being a sitting target is worse! and there are NO aircraft 14 hexes from PH! (that's from my game where midway is held by me so the closest enemy aircraft are at wake)

the DM's though - they are bad captains, but this is the first time i'v had a problem with bad captains (only good captains have given me the path hassles). but to go from PH to midway that's just not even close to a logical path! and i'v already had 2 DM's torped and sunk this game so why do they care now all of a sudden? just aggrivating, that's all...

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