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Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/10/2006 10:56:09 PM

eric517

Posts: 51
Joined: 12/1/2005
Status: offline

I have built my Indianapolis Evergreens into a consistent powerhouse in my current association. I am looking at different ways to increase the challenge of staying competitive. What are some ways you guys would suggest I do to increase the challenge? Here are some of the ways I have done this or am considering doing:

1. Decrease the amount of money available for salary in comparison to what other teams have to spend.

2. Limit my trading abilities. I guess I already don't trade much at all.

3. Can I create special rules that would handicap me during free agency?

4. I currently use the 1-100 scale for player ratings. How much of an impact would going to the 1-5 scale for ratings make?

5. Take over the worst team in the association or introduce expansion and take one of of those teams. I can't remember, though, if expansion can be an option after the association has already been created and running?

Again, I would welcome any insight people have gained from their experience in creating house rules.

Post #: 1

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/11/2006 2:19:37 AM

Leegen

Posts: 27
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline

In historical associations playing my Tigers, I will only draft, sign or trade for players who played at least one year for Detroit. I tried a couple of seasons without the limitation, but trying to picture Reggie Jackson wearing an Old English D just kind of made me queezy. That's in addition to lowering my salary cap, of course.

Currently doing a replay from 1903 and am at '37 with around a dozen titles. Got Cobb to 3000 hits and Harry Coveleski 300 wins but in a down cycle right now. Waiting on Newhouser and Trout to come to my rescue. Man, I love this game.

_____________________________

"But sir, how would that make him a better general?" Lee to Longstreet's request to courtmartial Stuart for disobeying orders.

(in reply to eric517)

Post #: 2

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/11/2006 2:56:12 AM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

Hey,

I find going to the 1-8 scale for playing ratings makes a very big impact. All the players "look the same", so to speak, so it can be challenging to pick out who the top players are.

I'd recommend the following house rules for increasing your challenge:

1. Finances
Hard: give yourself no more than 50% of the budget of the next-cheapest team
Medium: turn financials OFF, so AI teams can accumulate players without free agency
Easy: give yourself no more than 75% of the budget of the next-cheapest team

2. Trading
Hard: allow yourself to make 1-for-1 trades only when the AI initiates it, and force yourself to add a legitimate prospect to 'sweeten the deal' beyond what the AI would initially accept.
Medium: allow yourself to make 1-for-1 trades, but only when the AI initiates it
Easy: allow yourself to make only 1-for-1 trades
- (Alternately - 'no trading')

3. Free Agency
Hard: sign only players who are left available at start of the *third day* of the regular season. (AI teams perform 'roster thinking' at the end of the first day.) If you must sign players to reach the roster limit for Opening Day, sign super-scrubs.
Medium: sign only players who are left available at the end of the free agency period. No exceeding the roster limit prior to Spring Training.
Easy: Don't make bids on any players in the first N weeks of free agency (choose N between 2 and 6)

4. Contract renewals
Hard: allow 20% of your roster to expire contract each season. Allow 5 big-league players to expire contract each season. Give minor-league players who haven't reached the big leagues "minor league free agency" at the end of their first contract.
Medium: allow 10% of your roster to expire contract each season. Give minor league players who haven't reached the big leagues "minor league free agency" at the end of their first contract.
Easy: allow yourself only one contract-extension-offer per player, per season.

5. Amateur draft
Hard: don't draft players
Medium: draft a "super scrub" player in rounds one and four to represent a 'bust'.
Easy: draft only three players, in rounds one two and three.

6. Initial draft
Hard: Have the scout auto-draft the entire draft on whatever the 'Cut costs' option is (he'll draft super-scrubs)
Medium: Have the scout auto-draft the entire draft on 'Emphasis on established veterans'. Alternately, start a 'Replay' association, and take the weakest team from real MLB that year, or take over the worst team in an existing association.
Easy: Have the scout auto-draft the first ten rounds on one of those two styles.

< Message edited by Amaroq -- 11/11/2006 3:01:44 AM >

(in reply to Leegen)

Post #: 3

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/11/2006 4:59:13 PM

URett

Posts: 54
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

Great post, Amaroq. Some of your ideas I hadn't previously thought of.

Inspired by this thread I started a new association. 40 teams again, so winning the division is as hard as possible. I use 1-5 ratings, switched off finances, auto-drafted veterans throughout and I will do no trading. I use 5 man rotations to give less innings to stud pitchers.
Early in the first season my team sucks as expected. I'll post some updates over time, but obviously simming will take some time with such a big association.

I also don't use the new in-season ratings changes, so hopefully no 750 strikeout pitchers.

Season 1: After starting 4-29 my team rallied to finish 43-119, 53 games out of first, last in offense and defense.

Offseason 1: For more draft details, see my post in the support forum for details. I drafted 4 pitcher who will be my top 4 starters next season. I limited myself to 5 picks to keep up the appearance of slowly building a contender.

Season 2: Finished last again, 55-107. Last in offense, 35th in defense. My 4 rookie starters went a combined 35-61.

Offseason 2: AI still refuses to participate in the draft, so I picked up 4 good pitchers and 2 high potential batters (drafted 6 since 6 players had retired). I think the next high profile batter will be Ty Cobb.

Season 3: Still last, 60-102, last in offense, 35th in defense. My pitching is still young and the lack of good batters in the draft is killing me.

Offseason 3: 5 retirements, drafted 3 decent pitchers and 2 batters that will never become any good.

Season 4: After starting strong and challenging for the division lead early my team slumped to 41-40 at the break. Two of my young pitchers made it to the all star team. After a total breakdown in the second half I finished last in the division again with a 74-88 record, 20 games back. My team was again last in offense by a wide margin, but pitching improved drastically to 5th. If I can get a couple of decent bats I should be able to get to .500 next season.

Offseason 4: 6 retirements. Ty Cobb was already gone when it was my turn, so I still have not a single decent batter.

Season 5: Finally out of the cellar, 8th at 75-87. Offense still last, defense 8th. Without offensive help this team won't go much further.

Offseason 5: 7 open roster spots, but no offensive talent available. Unbelievably, Walter Johnson was still there in the second round. I also took a chance on Roy Hitt, maybe this is one of the times where he ends up a superstar.
Due to the severe lack of batting talent the AI teams picked up all available non-scrub batters without even looking at future pitching stars like Johnson.

Season 6: The upswing continues, 81-81, tied for 6th in a very strong division, 10 games back, 38th in offense, 3rd in defense.

Offseason 6: Picked up a decent catching prospect and a veteran shortstop. I have 19 pitchers with 4-5 ratings for stuff and control. I have 1 batter with 4s for contact and eye.

Season 7: A slight step back, 78-84, tied 4thin a weak division, 9 games back, 39th offense, 4th defense.

Offseason 7: Drafted only a decent 2B, Joe Jackson was picked #1.

Season 8: After 2 years in the minors Walter Johnson was ready and with a 19-6 record he promptly led my team to its first division title, 88-74, 6 games up. Out of nowhere my offense exploded to 18th in the league, pitching was 2nd. Lost 4-1 in the LCS to a 107-win club that would go on to sweep the WS, with Johnson picking up my sole win. Johnson won rookie pitcher of the year.

Offseason 8: No retirements, so I just picked up one pitcher with 5 potential.

Season 9: Finished tied for 1st at 87-75, but lost the tiebreaker. 20th offense, 8th defense.

Offseason 9: no changes

Season 10: My offense came back to earth, finishing last, and my pitching (5th) couldn't compensate enough, so I finished 4th, 10 games back.

Offseason 10: Picked up 1 SS project, but it will be a while until I can/have to make big changes to my team.

Season 11: Another bit of proof that baseball is quite random. Without any changes my offense improved to 15th. Combined with the 3rd best pitching I finished 90-72, winning my division by 4 games. This time I made it to the WS, but got beat in 7 games.

Season 12: 86-76, runner-up in division, 5 games back. I had both MVP and best pitcher, so overall a good year.

Season 13: Due to my no trades rule my team hasn't changed much in the last decade, especially on the offensive side. Now most of my batters are in their prime, so every year a couple of players have very good years. Younger pitchers break into the major league staff and keep up the high quality my team always has. This season I won my division (94-68, 2 games ahead), offense 16th, defense 7th. This time I won game 7 of the WS, giving my team it's first championship. One of my players won MVP honors again, but it was a different player than last year.

Offseason 13: Babe Ruth enters the league as an 18 year old outfielder. He was taken 5th overall. By the time I picked all the good batters were gone, so once again I just picked up another pitching prospect.

Season 14: Ruth won ROY. My team finished 3rd, 86-76, 4 games back. Most of my batters are past 30 and no prospects on the horizon, so I expect a big collapse every year now.

Season 15: The decline has begun. 79-83, 7th, 16 games back. Pitching is still good, but batting is dropping off rapidly. I'm afraid my pitching will keep me good enough to not get really high draft picks, but it won't be good enough to challenge for championships in the foreseeable future.

Season 16: From the "Shows you what I know" department: Out of nowhere my senior citizen offense clicked, ranking 7th in the association. Combined with the 5th best pitching I comfortably won the division at 94-68, 7 games clear. Unfortunately I got swept in the LCS with a run total of 31-5. Ouch.

Season 17: Another decent year. Finished 84-78, third, 4 games back.

Season 18: 82-80, but only 6th and 14 games back.

Season 19: Another surprising season. I won the division at 98-64, 6 games clear. Once again I was killed in the LCS, this time losing in 5.

Offseason 19: 8 of my batters retired and I only managed to get one non-scrub replacement. As the average age of my team is almost 33 years there is a good chance injuries could be a major factor next year as I have no depth at all.

Season 20: Due to the high average age of my team (and the resulting lack of stamina) and my policy of resting players when they are tired led to a constant rotation of players at all positions. 13 players had more than 250 at-bats, but only one had more than 500. Due to the lack of depth that meant giving a lot of at-bats to below average players. I still finished 83-79, but was 14 games back in 4th place.

Season 21: My pitching carried me to a 95-67 record, 2nd, 7 games back. Babe Ruth exploded, leading the association with 44 HRs (runner up 16) and 135 RBI (86). I wish he was on my team.

< Message edited by URett -- 11/25/2006 11:23:36 PM >

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 4

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/13/2006 7:03:30 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

Some other thoughts -

2. Trading
- Only accept deals which give the AI the maximum possible 'happiness with deal' text string (Thanks to KG Erwin for the exact wording: "We would be thrilled with this trade!")

7. Manager/GM Tendancies
Hard: Don't modify these settings. Let the AI manager auto-juggle lineups.
Medium: Limit yourself to modifying three settings. Don't modify the 'resting' rules.
Easy: Modify any six of these settings.

(Obviously, this section doesn't apply if you manage games yourself!)

...

So, I tried this one

quote:

Hard: allow yourself to make 1-for-1 trades only when the AI initiates it, and force yourself to add a legitimate prospect to 'sweeten the deal' beyond what the AI would initially accept.

over the weekend, and was frustrated to find a point where I had a deal the AI would initially accept, and I had a player on my roster who would help them further.. and adding him to the deal apparently made the deal WORSE in their mind, because it reduced the value back from an "accept" to a "reject"!

I was also working on the 20% expire, combined with a 'free agency after N weeks' and 'draft only three' rule, and found that to be almost cripplingly hard in combination. I was losing more 'quality' players per season than I was gaining back, so it was very tough. (Previously, I'd done 10% expire and found that not-so-bad, even in combination with other house rules.)

...

URett, your post had me laughing - what a bizarre league you've got going? Is the extreme lack of batting talent due to spreading the hitters from 16 teams out across 40?

< Message edited by Amaroq -- 11/17/2006 7:39:00 PM >

(in reply to URett)

Post #: 5

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/13/2006 8:30:02 PM

URett

Posts: 54
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

URett, your post had me laughing - what a bizarre league you've got going? Is the extreme lack of batting talent due to spreading the hitters from 16 teams out across 40?

I think the league starting in the dead-ball era and there being more teams than there were in real life are factors, but the main reason is probably that some fictional players created in the initial draft ended up too good for their era, so due to the relative rating system real rookies receive lower ratings. Also, using the 1-5 ratings makes it really hard to identify talent. Players with 2s and 3s for contact/eye/potential are hot commodities. In comparison, there are hundreds of pitchers with 4s for stuff and/or control, including many free agents.

< Message edited by URett -- 11/13/2006 8:58:42 PM >

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 6

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/13/2006 9:40:53 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

Hmm. That might be a problem with dead-ball imports in general; I've noticed that many of my 1901 pitchers wound up with 4's and 5's as well - enough that the 1901 Giants became a real title contender due to good pitching, when in real-life they were very poor.

(in reply to URett)

Post #: 7

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/14/2006 9:54:12 PM

eric517

Posts: 51
Joined: 12/1/2005
Status: offline

I appreciate the insight that has been shared. I think I will switch the ratings scale I have been using and will keep my team finances lower than the other teams. I guess I have always held myself to certain trading rules, not necessarily as a matter of keeping rules but I am usually too loyal to my players. Yes, I realize they are not real, but it's kind of strange how an attachment develops to certain players! I will keep an old veteran around hoping he will retire instead of releasing or demoting him.

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 8

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/15/2006 8:12:58 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

Yes, you can add some challenge by forcing yourself to have a few "Franchise Players" who you will pay - and play! - until they retire. It adds some fun watching them pursue all-time records, some personality as you've gotten to know and love them over their careers, plus the challenge of playing somebody who isn't necessarily the best in the league at their position.

(in reply to eric517)

Post #: 9

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/16/2006 6:28:54 AM

DonBraswell

Posts: 384
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Millbrook, Alabama
Status: offline

From my experience old veterans never retire from my team. They refuse to sign, apply for Free Agency, then retire. Also in the Free Agent Draft no one ever preferrs my team, even with a number of championships under my teams belt. This is strange to me. It didn't use to be this way.
Don

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 10

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/17/2006 1:21:10 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

To Amaroq: the most positive wording that the AI GM gives you on a trade offer is " We would be thrilled with this trade!"

Honestly, when I see this message, it makes ME think, "Do I really want to make this trade?" LOL

On the flip side, I don't cosummate a transaction when the AI says, "That's a fair trade." That gives me the impression that I'm taking advantage of our business relations -- know what I mean?

This tells me that a "trust" rating for the human GM should be generated, which would affect how willing the AI GMs are to make deals with you, and propose offers. At the worst, you could be labeled as either a "sucker" or a "swindler". At the best, maybe you're labeled as "honest and fair". How this would be determined is open to discussion.

(in reply to DonBraswell)

Post #: 11

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/17/2006 7:43:18 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
To Amaroq: the most positive wording that the AI GM gives you on a trade offer is " We would be thrilled with this trade!"

Honestly, when I see this message, it makes ME think, "Do I really want to make this trade?" LOL

LoL! True enough!

And thanks - I've edited my post to include that.

quote:

On the flip side, I don't cosummate a transaction when the AI says, "That's a fair trade." That gives me the impression that I'm taking advantage of our business relations -- know what I mean?

Right - that's the direction I was trying to go with this house rule. One can 'cut it off' at any text string level, I suppose.

quote:

This tells me that a "trust" rating for the human GM should be generated, which would affect how willing the AI GMs are to make deals with you, and propose offers. At the worst, you could be labeled as either a "sucker" or a "swindler". At the best, maybe you're labeled as "honest and fair". How this would be determined is open to discussion.

I do like this concept. In fact, it could be done for each other GM: some might like you, while others don't. I was thinking of something else, where other GM's might be less willing to trade with you when you've acheived dynasty levels.

On an abstract level, the absolute worst trade one can make in a drafting/trading game is to mortgage the future for short-term gain *that falls short*: sending away your best prospect for a mid-level starter who turns your .500 team into a playoff team that gets knocked out in the first round, for example.

I suspect it may simply be that the AI gets too willing to do that mid-way through the season. The other problem I suspect is the AI using the same evaluation function on both sides of the equation. This isn't quite right: a contending team might value more highly big-league quality players and value more lightly minor-leaguers... but it still knows the 'real' value of its best prospects, and shouldn't trade them unless the value received in big-league quality players exceeds the 'real' value. On the other hand, it isn't likely to trade IN prospects at the moment. So a top prospect's 'trade in' value and 'trade out' value need to be quite a bit different.

< Message edited by Amaroq -- 11/17/2006 7:49:14 PM >

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 12

RE: Increasing the Challenge/House Rules - 11/21/2006 8:23:44 PM

URett

Posts: 54
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Yes, you can add some challenge by forcing yourself to have a few "Franchise Players" who you will pay - and play! - until they retire. It adds some fun watching them pursue all-time records, some personality as you've gotten to know and love them over their careers, plus the challenge of playing somebody who isn't necessarily the best in the league at their position.

Based on this idea I decided to make everyone who either wins 150 games, gets 1500 hits or wins MVP/best pitcher a franchise player who will remain on the major league roster until he retires. As I leave it to my manager to set lineups/rotations they will still have to fight for playing time.

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 13