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Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 9:52:37 AM

Jonathan Palfrey

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Ten years ago Frank Hunter released his ACW game, and it's been a long wait since then for another one.

But now, suddenly, we have three companies all planning to release strategical ACW games: Western Civilization as we all know, plus AGEOD (early next year) and 2 By 3 Games (later next year).

It's like, you wait ten years for a bus, and then three turn up at once.

Western Civilization has the advantage of coming in first; plus, it seems much better at communicating with players than the other two companies.

Post #: 1

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 11:57:48 AM

Kung Karl

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I agree with you, it is funny.

It has been a long wait but at least we get three games now! :)

(in reply to Jonathan Palfrey)

Post #: 2

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 2:03:21 PM

Nibelung

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it comes in waves? Next wave will be ??? Napoleonic? World War I ? who knows...

(in reply to Kung Karl)

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RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 2:16:44 PM

Hidde

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Joined: 5/1/2005
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We also have Hussar Games. They have a poll right now about what game to develop next. One of the conflicts you can vote for is ACW. It's on third place at the moment, I think. I voted for Frederik the Great. Some diversity can't hurt.

(in reply to Jonathan Palfrey)

Post #: 4

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 6:35:55 PM

Gil R.

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We at WCS knew about the 2 x 3 game, but the AGEOD one was a surprise. Having just spent the past year working on our own game, we're curious to see how the other companies did it. Personally, I'm hoping that we got here not only fustest, but also with the mostest (especially with regard to any non-Matrix products, since we know some of the 2 x 3 guys)...

P.S. This seems like as good a place as any to announce that I spent two hours yesterday cracking open a certain reference book about a certain war and beginning the process of taking notes for WCS's next project. I had previously listened to an audiobook while driving, and took some very useful notes on the steering wheel while going 75 m.p.h. on the interstate -- kids, I'm a trained professional, DO NOT try this yourselves! -- but yesterday marked the formal beginning of our next project, as far as my participation is concerned.

< Message edited by Gil R. -- 11/24/2006 6:03:05 AM >

(in reply to Hidde)

Post #: 5

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 6:38:27 PM

AU Tiger_MatrixForum

Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

We at WCS knew about the 2 x 3 game, but the AGEOD one was a surprise. Having just spend the past year working on our own game, we're curious to see how the other companies did it. Personally, I'm hoping that we got here not only fustest, but also with the mostest...

P.S. This seems like as good a place as any to announce that I spent two hours yesterday cracking open a certain reference book about a certain war and beginning the process of taking notes for WCS's next project. I had previously listened to an audiobook while driving, and took some very useful notes on the steering wheel while going 75 m.p.h. on the interstate -- kids, I'm a trained professional, DO NOT try this yourselves! -- but yesterday marked the formal beginning of our next project, as far as my participation is concerned.

Woo hoo! I can't wait to play "Tiara of Fruity" - The War of Jenkin's Pig Ear!

_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 6

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 6:41:17 PM

Reiryc

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

We at WCS knew about the 2 x 3 game, but the AGEOD one was a surprise. Having just spend the past year working on our own game, we're curious to see how the other companies did it. Personally, I'm hoping that we got here not only fustest, but also with the mostest...

P.S. This seems like as good a place as any to announce that I spent two hours yesterday cracking open a certain reference book about a certain war and beginning the process of taking notes for WCS's next project. I had previously listened to an audiobook while driving, and took some very useful notes on the steering wheel while going 75 m.p.h. on the interstate -- kids, I'm a trained professional, DO NOT try this yourselves! -- but yesterday marked the formal beginning of our next project, as far as my participation is concerned.

What was the name of the book?

_____________________________

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 7

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 6:55:39 PM

andysomers

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Seems that a Rev war game based on this system would be a hoot.

AS

(in reply to Reiryc)

Post #: 8

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 7:14:30 PM

AU Tiger_MatrixForum

Posts: 1606
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From: Deepest Dixie
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quote:

ORIGINAL: andysomers

Seems that a Rev war game based on this system would be a hoot.

AS

Where have you been???? They are about to release a Revolutionary War game with this system. It is called Forge of Freedom!

< Message edited by AU Tiger -- 11/22/2006 7:22:04 PM >

_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to andysomers)

Post #: 9

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 7:51:35 PM

cdbeck

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From: Indiana
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The War of Jenkin's Ear? Naaah... too over done. They need to make a modern war (with modern units). How about The Falkland's War: The Battle to End an Age. They need to be sure to model Units that contain puffins and sheep!

Son of Montfort

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to AU Tiger_MatrixForum)

Post #: 10

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 8:03:52 PM

Gil R.

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Are there puffins in the southern hemisphere? I thought they're a Canada/Maine phenomenon, especially up in the Baffin Bay area.

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 11

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 8:31:16 PM

AU Tiger_MatrixForum

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From: Deepest Dixie
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Are there puffins in the southern hemisphere? I thought they're a Canada/Maine phenomenon, especially up in the Baffin Bay area.

Maybe Mike can chime in on this one.

_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 12

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/22/2006 10:23:46 PM

spruce

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let's say the first bus arrived - a second one is coming out of the turn - and the third one is on the horizon. Sometimes buses tend to breakdown or be very late !

(in reply to AU Tiger_MatrixForum)

Post #: 13

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/23/2006 7:05:18 AM

cdbeck

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From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Are there puffins in the southern hemisphere? I thought they're a Canada/Maine phenomenon, especially up in the Baffin Bay area.

Doh! I meant Penguins! In fact, I read somewhere that the Falkland Islands War is still known by some as the Penguin Islands War. The island is also known for the elusive Falkland Island Fox. The name for the game could be "The Penguin Islands War: 72 Days in Cold Hell (or Thatcher and the Falklands Fox).

< Message edited by Son_of_Montfort -- 11/23/2006 7:10:47 AM >

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 14

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/23/2006 7:56:42 AM

AU Tiger_MatrixForum

Posts: 1606
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From: Deepest Dixie
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Are there puffins in the southern hemisphere? I thought they're a Canada/Maine phenomenon, especially up in the Baffin Bay area.

Doh! I meant Penguins! In fact, I read somewhere that the Falkland Islands War is still known by some as the Penguin Islands War. The island is also known for the elusive Falkland Island Fox. The name for the game could be "The Penguin Islands War: 72 Days in Cold Hell (or Thatcher and the Falklands Fox).

_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 15

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/23/2006 10:38:32 AM

ravinhood

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By adding a full operational campaign with all the fixings AND tactical battles as well you certainly got there with the "mostest". My only concern is that you didn't leave the AI behind. Having everything is great, but, if there is "no challenge" there or extremely difficult settings/choices, then it's going to fall flat on it's face. ImB. So, I hope you have worked on your AI to the 100th of the 100th power of infinity plus shipping and handling. ;)

(in reply to AU Tiger_MatrixForum)

Post #: 16

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 7:18:35 AM

cdbeck

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Actually, to be 100% serious, I would love to see that next project be either:
1. A World War I sim (and I mean full out economic/strategic/tactical on the lines of CoG and FoF)
2. An imperialism sim (maybe limited to the partition of Africa or something reasonable for a map)
3. A Crimean War sim (I feel little known, yet an important precursor to WWI era warfare) -- Charge of the Light Brigade anyone?

Those are the top three I can think of on the spot. I love medieval warfare, but it really doesn't lend itself well to "divisional" or "brigade" style combat sims as these notions only roughly existed and "tactics" generally encompassed when/where to position archers and when/where to begin a cavalry charge. That may be oversimplifying a bit, but not too much (at least until the late 15th century when gunpower became more prevelant).

Son of Montfort

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 17

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 7:25:54 AM

AU Tiger_MatrixForum

Posts: 1606
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From: Deepest Dixie
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Actually, to be 100% serious, I would love to see that next project be either:
1. A World War I sim (and I mean full out economic/strategic/tactical on the lines of CoG and FoF)
2. An imperialism sim (maybe limited to the partition of Africa or something reasonable for a map)
3. A Crimean War sim (I feel little known, yet an important precursor to WWI era warfare) -- Charge of the Light Brigade anyone?

Those are the top three I can think of on the spot. I love medieval warfare, but it really doesn't lend itself well to "divisional" or "brigade" style combat sims as these notions only roughly existed and "tactics" generally encompassed when/where to position archers and when/where to begin a cavalry charge. That may be oversimplifying a bit, but not too much (at least until the late 15th century when gunpower became more prevelant).

Son of Montfort

#1 See "Guns of August" forum within the Matrix umbrella - in development. It is based on the board game derived from Barbara Tuchman's book of the same title.

#2 I like the idea, but the design would be a nightmare. Are you volunteering?

#3 Not too sure about that one. I'd have to think about it some.

_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 18

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 7:40:54 AM

Gil R.

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Joined: 4/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Actually, to be 100% serious, I would love to see that next project be either:
1. A World War I sim (and I mean full out economic/strategic/tactical on the lines of CoG and FoF)
2. An imperialism sim (maybe limited to the partition of Africa or something reasonable for a map)
3. A Crimean War sim (I feel little known, yet an important precursor to WWI era warfare) -- Charge of the Light Brigade anyone?

Those are the top three I can think of on the spot. I love medieval warfare, but it really doesn't lend itself well to "divisional" or "brigade" style combat sims as these notions only roughly existed and "tactics" generally encompassed when/where to position archers and when/where to begin a cavalry charge. That may be oversimplifying a bit, but not too much (at least until the late 15th century when gunpower became more prevelant).

Son of Montfort

Thanks. Even though our next project is fixed in stone, it's good to get an idea from people about what sort of games would appeal to them.

While I can't say what we've got planned, I will state that our next game will involve restoring a lot of the diplomatic elements of "Crown of Glory" that were scaled back for "Forge of Freedom" (which was a necessity, since the Civil War had just two sides).

< Message edited by Gil R. -- 11/24/2006 7:45:18 AM >

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 19

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 7:53:51 AM

AU Tiger_MatrixForum

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From: Deepest Dixie
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The Hundred Years War?

_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 20

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 9:01:51 AM

ravinhood

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"The Rise & Fall of the Roman Empire"??? ;)

(in reply to AU Tiger_MatrixForum)

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RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 6:21:26 PM

Nibelung

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would make sense, there is a lot of diplomacy to play with in the ancient era.
When will your next project topic announced?

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 22

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 6:23:59 PM

cdbeck

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From: Indiana
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Thanks Gil! I wasn't trying to "sway" you from your project as much as I was guessing what sort of war might work well with the CoG/FoF engine.

Although I found CoG almost esoteric in the depth of its Grand Strategy, I will say that I have encountered very few games that had such an awe inspiring scope. To me, it truly shined when one got to the tactical battles. I have yet to find a turn based, early modern/modern tactical battle sim that I have enjoyed as much as I enjoyed CoG. Other grognards may disagree, but that divisional/brigade level action, which carefully monitored unit organization, facing, formation, morale, along with weather, supply, and terrain made it feel like I was playing a table top game with miniatures (having the rules and rolling already done for me).
I'm sure I will enjoy FoF even more, because it looks like things have been streamlined in the grand strategy (fewer resources and more straightforward diplomacy) and a heavier focus on the battles!

So, good show! I know early bugs created a rocky CoG release, but the West Civ team should be applauded for its courage in putting together a game with such scope on a topic that needs covering but doesn't have the "mass" appeal of the run-of-the-mill FPS.

Son of Montfort

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 23

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 6:27:44 PM

cdbeck

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From: Indiana
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Ooooh... imagine the Spartan game, with the diplomatic and economic control of CoG (granted Spartan already has good control of these) and battles that you can actually control (in a form better than Tin Soldiers). Not to knock other Matrix Games, but that would be very nice!

Son of Montfort

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Nibelung)

Post #: 24

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/24/2006 6:54:05 PM

Gil R.

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We're many months away from being able to announce our next new game (and first will come a COG patch, which is our topmost priority).

As with FOF, it will be filling a gap rather than duplicating something already out there.

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 25

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/25/2006 12:54:08 AM

SlapBone

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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

We're many months away from being able to announce our next new game (and first will come a COG patch, which is our topmost priority).

As with FOF, it will be filling a gap rather than duplicating something already out there.

I knew you guys would release FOF before issuing a final patch for COG

_____________________________

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RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/25/2006 12:57:26 AM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Actually, to be 100% serious, I would love to see that next project be either:
1. A World War I sim (and I mean full out economic/strategic/tactical on the lines of CoG and FoF)

Oh My, as a tester, that game would scare me :), but I can't really see either of these engines doing a good job with that war, but I would love to play a really good WWI level game

2. An imperialism sim (maybe limited to the partition of Africa or something reasonable for a map)

that could be fun, need more of the search and improve the area, but doable and fun

3. A Crimean War sim (I feel little known, yet an important precursor to WWI era warfare) -- Charge of the Light Brigade anyone?

now this one I could see, the battle for the redoubts could be a pain, but overall doable, I like that idea

you do know about the Charge of the Heavy Brigade ?

Those are the top three I can think of on the spot. I love medieval warfare, but it really doesn't lend itself well to "divisional" or "brigade" style combat sims as these notions only roughly existed and "tactics" generally encompassed when/where to position archers and when/where to begin a cavalry charge. That may be oversimplifying a bit, but not too much (at least until the late 15th century when gunpower became more prevelant).

Son of Montfort

_____________________________

(in reply to cdbeck)

Post #: 27

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/25/2006 2:58:24 AM

bountyhunter

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From: Wherever Uncle Sam sends me
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Hopefully it will be 4 assuming Walker Boys Studio can get theirs out in this decade...

(in reply to Kung Karl)

Post #: 28

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/25/2006 3:41:55 AM

AU Tiger_MatrixForum

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From: Deepest Dixie
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bountyhunter

Hopefully it will be 4 assuming Walker Boys Studio can get theirs out in this decade...

I have had their site in "my favorites" for three years now I guess, and it doesn't seem to be any closer now then then.

_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to bountyhunter)

Post #: 29

RE: Everybody's doing it - 11/25/2006 3:49:42 AM

cdbeck

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I don't mean to be discussing another company's Civil War game, but since I see some of the Mad Minute developers around here every now and then, I figure I would ask. I'm definately going to get FoF, because I like the grand strategy and turn based aspects, but I may ask for 2nd Manassas for Christmas. Has anyone played it and have any opinion? The demo seemed slow paced, but that isn't necessarily bad. Any opinions?

Re: Hard Sarge,
I have not heard of the Charge of the Heavy Brigade. I just know the Light Brigade from the Tennyson poem (written by England bound Tennyson in response to a newspaper article). I assign it to my Western Civ class to read, as it has very nice pro-war, pro-honor imagery to contrast to the depressing World War I poetry.

Son of Montfort

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to AU Tiger_MatrixForum)

Post #: 30

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Everybody's doing it