Sub/seaplane transport

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Sub/seaplane transport

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Sub/seaplane transport

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Sub/seaplane transport - 12/9/2006 3:59:51 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

Allies (as usual) early war.

I've been evacuating most of the useless mouths (base forces) from the Phillipines. But ran into some odd problems.

1) My catalinas for about a week were perfectly happy to pick up units out of Bataan and then suddenly stopped. Every attempt to pick up units now results in them standing down when the turn is run. The base is supplied - morale is ok - I have supply. I even tried shortening the range - nothing. Bataan has no port/af damage. The target unit had its HQ changed so its eligible and visible on the pick up menu. So what would stop them? Around the same time same thing happened to my seaplanes flying units out of rangoon.

2) Transport subs - I thought I had figured these out by making sure there is enough load to hold one of a device. I have no problems loading troops. But they all absolutely refuse to load supply from any of the small islands in the phillipines. Orders are given, they start loading, but next turn they're en route empty. For about a week this went fine as well. Supplies at these bases range from 600s to over a thousand and they are all empty of troops.

Any advice?

Post #: 1

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/9/2006 4:11:56 PM

TulliusDetritus

Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone�
Status: offline

I haven't tried to "pick troops" for ages. It worked very well at the beginning. But then one of the early patches created a bug: when a unit was ordered to "Pick up Troops" they would deliver "supplies" instead. I would assume this routine has still some "bugs" (after all, I always read the TXTs/PDFs of the patches, AND as far as I can remember I never could read that this bug was fixed). Anyway, what about the morale of the unit? The weather?

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 12/9/2006 4:24:20 PM >

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 2

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/9/2006 4:28:46 PM

VSWG

Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

2) Transport subs - I thought I had figured these out by making sure there is enough load to hold one of a device. I have no problems loading troops. But they all absolutely refuse to load supply from any of the small islands in the phillipines. Orders are given, they start loading, but next turn they're en route empty. For about a week this went fine as well. Supplies at these bases range from 600s to over a thousand and they are all empty of troops.

Any advice?

Did you set your subs to "do not unload"? They probably loaded supplies, and immediately unloaded them again before leaving port.

_____________________________

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 3

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/9/2006 4:32:37 PM

stldiver

Posts: 724
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: West Palm Beach, USA
Status: offline

VSWG is correct set do not load, and don't set a destination till they load. Another factor may be you are trying to load disabled troops which take longer and more space.

This has been my experiance and I have moved a lot of troops via subs. Also I have tried to load with troops only, if that doesn't work then loading with Troops command seems to pick up, not sure the reasons, but if it doesn't work I give it a day to reset and try again.

_____________________________

Showa rules!

(in reply to VSWG)

Post #: 4

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/9/2006 9:32:53 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

Check what is left of the unit you're trying to pick up. If it's only "big" stuff, like arty guns etc, the Cats don't have the capacity to pick them up. Actually, the sqdn of Coronados make for excellent heavy lifters if you don't have C-47s available.

Also, be advised that the smaller subs

S-## (USN)
P-class (USN), I think, not sure
T-class (RN)
K-class (RDN)
O-class (RDN)

only have a capacity of 18. That means they can pick up infantry squads (10 load capacity), and some of the machine guns. But they cannot pick up support squads (20 load capacity).

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

(in reply to stldiver)

Post #: 5

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/10/2006 2:09:06 AM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

I haven't had any problem picking up troops due to load. I usually only collect them once they've been kicked around so just support and avsupport. This was one of my original blunders when I first played, rarely repeated after all the hair I tore outthen.

Cats are working again. It may be a morale issue. I'll have to keep a closer eye on it. Sometimes it plummets like crazy from one turn to the next. Looks like my patrol planes hate transport missions.

I'll try the 'do not unload' for my subs, but I never used it before. Usually I've had to send a sub to a base on patrol to get it to stay there - Then I switch mission and explicitly set it to return to base while still loading. Usually works, but not always.

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 6

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/10/2006 6:42:07 AM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

I have wondered if this problem isn't linked to the old "unit disappearing while air transported" problem. You might check to see if the unit at the final destination is larger than the one at the original base. If so, is it now the parent unit? If not, you might want to wait a couple of turns for the game to recognize the larger faragment as the parent unit - maybe it will allow you to start picking up the remaining fragments after that.

Or maybe this post is just a cocktail hour flight of illogical imagination...

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 7

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/10/2006 9:47:34 AM

goodboyladdie

Posts: 3469
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Rendlesham, Suffolk
Status: offline

I have noticed that recently I get more subs refusing to load when I switch back from patrol to transport. If this happens I find upon checking that they have a no load cost residual fragment of the unit they last carried on board. This residual header is often seen when you move an air unit to another base, but it always dissapears the next turn. I am guessing that if you turn the sub around on the same turn it unloads this residual fragment can sometimes "clog" the load troops routine. If you select unload first it clears it, but you have to hang about for a turn in a very dangerous area.

(in reply to bradfordkay)

Post #: 8

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/11/2006 11:35:14 AM

Yamato hugger

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I have noticed that recently I get more subs refusing to load when I switch back from patrol to transport. If this happens I find upon checking that they have a no load cost residual fragment of the unit they last carried on board. This residual header is often seen when you move an air unit to another base, but it always dissapears the next turn. I am guessing that if you turn the sub around on the same turn it unloads this residual fragment can sometimes "clog" the load troops routine. If you select unload first it clears it, but you have to hang about for a turn in a very dangerous area.

Easy fix: Form a new TF with the subs you trying to load into. Presto! Some sort of bug on the TF, not the ships.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 12/11/2006 11:43:26 AM >

(in reply to goodboyladdie)

Post #: 9

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/11/2006 4:53:03 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Easy fix: Form a new TF with the subs you trying to load into. Presto! Some sort of bug on the TF, not the ships.

This looks like worth trying. I'm thinking it has something to do with my switching TF missions. Have to wait for the sub fleet to leg it back from Australia and Timor. Scary though - I worry I'll lose evacuees to some weird Philadelphia Experiment incident...

Seaplanes seem iffy - either morale or they abort due to enemy air activity in the area - not sure without running tests.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)

Post #: 10

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 4:44:25 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

Update on this - seaplanes just seem to suffer from the usual air problems of any other aircraft. Sometimes they just don't feel like it - time for a Mars bar.

Subs...

I've tried
1) Load supplies, then set destination - nogo.
2) Set destination, then load supplies - zip.
3) Set destination and load supplies with 'do not unload' - nicht.
4) Load supplies with no destination and 'do not unload' - zilch.
5) Transferring subs out to new sub transport TFs - zero.
6) Disbanding to port and creating brand new subtrans TF - nope.
7) Big ports (30k+ supply) - nada.
8) Little ports (<1k supply) - nuthin.

Bugger me if they didn't used to load supply earlier in the game. Now they will not load supplies - ever. Anyone else got advice or is it time to head for the support thread and start hoarding saves?

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 11

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 4:55:17 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

2) Transport subs - I thought I had figured these out by making sure there is enough load to hold one of a device. I have no problems loading troops. But they all absolutely refuse to load supply from any of the small islands in the phillipines. Orders are given, they start loading, but next turn they're en route empty. For about a week this went fine as well. Supplies at these bases range from 600s to over a thousand and they are all empty of troops.

This might be a problem with "sticky slots" (according to Mr. Frag, a while back). i've experienced this in every game i've tried, but is apparently not reproducible by Matrix. Some (most?) people don't seem to have a problem with it. i found that after i had moved around 300 tons of supplies the problem developed. i've never been able to resolve the problem*. After a while, it becomes difficult to move troops by sub as well. This last problem can sometimes be remedied by dissolving TFs and reforming them with a new TF number.

Seaplanes picking up troops are problematic. If the "air balance" number gets too low, the pilots won't fly into a place so this could be the problem. If you rest the crews and get their morale up high, they will sometimes fly into a bad "air balance" spot.

*EDIT: i've tried all the suggestions made here and more without success. Only way i've gotten subs to transport supplies again is to start a new game - and they quit again shortly into the game.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 12/14/2006 5:11:45 PM >

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 12

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 5:03:30 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

Sometimes I think I've joined a theosophist study group...

Sticky slots means what?

And I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything about air balance in the manual/release notes? Sorry if it's a dumbass newb question...

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 13

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 5:10:58 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

Sometimes I think I've joined a theosophist study group...

Sticky slots means what?

it's a problem with the programming language (C++, iirc). Once a slot (a space devoted to something in the program - in this case a slot devoted to cargo) is used, somehow the space is not freed up once the cargo is unloaded. Somehow, (i am guessing here) there is a total amount of space devoted to cargo for subs, and once you use it, it stays used up even though you've unloaded.

Since some people experience it and some don't, i suspect it is a strange interraction of the WITP program with Windows. Probably something we have on our computers is screwing stuff up via Windows (again - i am guessing). i haven't tried loading WITP onto a computer with nothing else on it - but maybe that would help, but i am not sure i want to devote the effort/resources to that experiment.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 12/14/2006 5:24:27 PM >

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 14

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 5:15:05 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

And I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything about air balance in the manual/release notes? Sorry if it's a dumbass newb question

If you hover the cursor over a base, you will see a number. If it is positive, that is a positive air balance for the owner of the base - and it means the game thinks you have relative air superiority. THe more positive the number, the more air superiority the game thinks you have... it is LARGELY based on bomber strength that can be projected to the base.

If the number is negative - the base owner is at a disadvantage.

So, if Manilla has an air balance number of -758, transports probably won't fly in without having a VERY good morale.

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 15

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 5:25:49 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

Sometimes I think I've joined a theosophist study group...

Sticky slots means what?

it's a problem with the programming language (C++, iirc). Once a slot (a space devoted to something in the program - in this case a slot devoted to cargo) is used, somehow the space is not freed up once the cargo is unloaded. Somehow, (i am guessing here) there is a total amount of space devoted to cargo for subs, and once you use it, it stays used up even though you've unloaded.

Since some people experience it and some don't, i suspect it is a strange interraction of the WITP program with Windows. Probably something we have on our computers is screwing stuff up via Windows (again - i am guessing). i haven't tried loading WITP onto a computer with nothing else on it - but maybe that would help, but i am not sure i want to devote the effort/resources to that experiment.

Windows is sometimes too easy to blame. If there was an OS resource not being freed I would expect 1) the performance of everything to slowly degrade 2) it should clear up when I reboot. I'm pretty sure I've done so at least once but I can double check. A relog should be enough but maybe not. Is there an old thread explaining this?

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 16

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 5:26:36 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

And I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything about air balance in the manual/release notes? Sorry if it's a dumbass newb question

If you hover the cursor over a base, you will see a number. If it is positive, that is a positive air balance for the owner of the base - and it means the game thinks you have relative air superiority. THe more positive the number, the more air superiority the game thinks you have... it is LARGELY based on bomber strength that can be projected to the base.

If the number is negative - the base owner is at a disadvantage.

So, if Manilla has an air balance number of -758, transports probably won't fly in without having a VERY good morale.

Thanks - this is new to me since I started playing again. Was wondering what that meant.

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 17

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 5:37:01 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

Sometimes I think I've joined a theosophist study group...

Sticky slots means what?

it's a problem with the programming language (C++, iirc). Once a slot (a space devoted to something in the program - in this case a slot devoted to cargo) is used, somehow the space is not freed up once the cargo is unloaded. Somehow, (i am guessing here) there is a total amount of space devoted to cargo for subs, and once you use it, it stays used up even though you've unloaded.

Since some people experience it and some don't, i suspect it is a strange interraction of the WITP program with Windows. Probably something we have on our computers is screwing stuff up via Windows (again - i am guessing). i haven't tried loading WITP onto a computer with nothing else on it - but maybe that would help, but i am not sure i want to devote the effort/resources to that experiment.

Windows is sometimes too easy to blame. If there was an OS resource not being freed I would expect 1) the performance of everything to slowly degrade 2) it should clear up when I reboot. I'm pretty sure I've done so at least once but I can double check. A relog should be enough but maybe not. Is there an old thread explaining this?

Well, it's been well over a year ago - and the search engine on this forum doesn't work very well. Some of the info might have been in private emails between Mr. Frag and myself.

Reboot does not help. i don't think it is an OS resource not being freed up, it is the OS somehow interacting with the game programming, and it is probably being triggered by a third party program. It is slots in the GAME that are sticky, not slots in Windows.

What causes the stickiness i am not sure, but since only some people have it and most don't, i think it has something to do with the machine they are running on - so it is hardware or a Windows interaction. Since i have had the same problem on radically different platforms (both loaded with similar software) - i think it must be the software. When i sent the saves to Mr. Frag, he couldn't replicate the problem despite running the same version of WITP.

So, if not the platform, and not the game per se, it has to be the operating environment - i.e. Windows and its interactions with other software.

For example - i (and others) had experiences with the game crashing to disk under certain circumstances - and i eventually figured out it was due to a "screen saver" program causing a bizarre interraction. i got rid of that program, and that particular crash went away. If i could figure out what program is interracting with Windows to cause the sticky slot problem (and that is assuming Mr. Frag was correct in his assessment of the problem) then this might be addressed.

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 18

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 8:21:50 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

Nuts... from the few hits I did get searching you made it sound like this happened to regular transports at one time.

Looks like I'm moving on to the support forum. If this spreads beyond subs it will go from moderately annoying to game killing.

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 19

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/14/2006 8:28:34 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

Nuts... from the few hits I did get searching you made it sound like this happened to regular transports at one time.

Looks like I'm moving on to the support forum. If this spreads beyond subs it will go from moderately annoying to game killing.

Well, it isn't affecting my regular transports in any of my games. It is moderately annoying (as you have noted) but not a game killer. If you find a solution, let me know!!

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 20

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/15/2006 10:07:09 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

FYI, I have not been able to load supply on subs since beta. Personally the amount of supply capable of being lifted by subs should not even equate to a single supply factor. Think about it...

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 21

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/15/2006 1:43:44 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

FYI, I have not been able to load supply on subs since beta. Personally the amount of supply capable of being lifted by subs should not even equate to a single supply factor. Think about it...

Not sure what you are driving at here...

Both Allied and IJN used subs to support cut off units during the war - the Allies promoting (and apparently expanding) Phillipino resistance units after Japanese occupation. While not the MAJOR source of supply for the theater, it was important.

What bothers me is that it is apparently available to some players (but not others) due to this glitch. i guess you are one of the "others" to whom it is not available.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 12/15/2006 1:52:47 PM >

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 22

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/15/2006 1:47:54 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Personally, I think it's a matter of game scale. Similar to the way I feel about sub commandoes; it's below the scope (so to speak) of WitP...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 23

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/15/2006 2:10:09 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Personally, I think it's a matter of game scale. Similar to the way I feel about sub commandoes; it's below the scope (so to speak) of WitP...

An interesting comment considering you just spent time considering how much armor to put on a ship that probably won't get into the game...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1327193

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 24

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/15/2006 2:32:49 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

That has nothing to do with anything, and I deny making any such comment at any time and any venue. Besides, it's in MY WitP now...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 25

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/15/2006 2:38:04 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That has nothing to do with anything, and I deny making any such comment at any time and any venue. Besides, it's in MY WitP now...

Glad you "clarified" that...

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 26

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/15/2006 2:39:03 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Well, I am in the business of "clarifying"...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 27

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 12/15/2006 4:39:57 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

FYI, I have not been able to load supply on subs since beta. Personally the amount of supply capable of being lifted by subs should not even equate to a single supply factor. Think about it...

I suspect these subs hold more than you'd think if they are dedicated to a supply run. They spend a fairly long time at sea and if its a short hop they can probably unload a fair bit from the boat's stores, on top of any dedicated cargo space at destination (maybe I can look this up somewhere). What makes me nervous is it just suddenly stopped working.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 28

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 1/21/2007 5:40:34 AM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

So, has it started working again yet, presuming a few reboots since then and maybe a software tidy-up?

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to qgaliana)

Post #: 29

RE: Sub/seaplane transport - 1/21/2007 7:49:32 PM

qgaliana

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

So, has it started working again yet, presuming a few reboots since then and maybe a software tidy-up?

No not precisely. I've had one sub transport load supplies in the last 5 months or so of combat. I could launch an exhaustive experiment to check for circumstances that clear this. Or I could (and do) just play.

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 30