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Game Videos Required by NFL? - 12/13/2006 9:12:43 PM

Great White

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A While Back I stated, in USAn FootBall, Franchises/Programs/Teams Were Not Required to Hand Over Their Game Videos (Whether They Filmed The Games Themselves or Anything Else).

A MF member claimed that my coaching, radio, playing and 23+-years of fanship of The Miami Hurricanes were at best at the CFB level. My 26+-years of fanship of Miami Dolphins experiences were not inside of The NFL enough. That he knew that The NFL need does require The NFL Franchises to share game films, used to scout other NFL Franchises.

The many posts on this debate turned into one-sided tense debate-not by me. The debate (I think) happened during my wishlist item that asked for better scouting (film clips of players playing at the lower level of FB, less performance numbers, labeling players-instead overall performance numbers and etc) of players, before drafts and free agent signs and etc.

If The NFL Franchises were required to give film, of the games they filmed (as they played), then this article would not be necessary.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/16226012.htm

< Message edited by Marauders -- 12/14/2006 2:39:49 AM >

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RE: Game Videos Required by NFL? - 12/13/2006 9:56:03 PM

Marauders

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From: Minnesota
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Teams must share game films in the NFL, college, and in most high school leagues I know of.

Game films do not have sound and are, generally, shot in a full field view (F8 view in Maximum-Football).

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Marauders -- 12/14/2006 3:41:51 AM >

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RE: Game Videos Required by NFL? - 12/13/2006 10:13:28 PM

Marauders

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
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A quote from Packers.com, the official website for the Green Bay Packers:

quote:

Many times, you hear a player or coach talk about what they've seen on game tape, or that they've learned a lot by breaking down film of the upcoming opponent.

Where do they get that film? No, the teams don't just pop a recording of the television broadcast of last week's game into the VCR.

Each team has a video staff, and they film every game from both a sideline angle and a high end zone vantage point. Following each game, teams are required to provide the other teams in the league with their footage.

The full article here:

The Team Behind The Team: Video Department

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Marauders -- 12/14/2006 3:42:07 AM >

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/13/2006 11:31:04 PM

Shaggyra

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I know for a fact that NFL teams are required to share game tape. NCAA I'm not sure of but I think so. HS I think it depends on the state and/or conference.

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/13/2006 11:33:42 PM

Shaggyra

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And I still want to know what USAn is.

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/13/2006 11:46:09 PM

Great White

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Joined: 11/7/2006
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quote:

The NFL said Tuesday there is no rule that would prohibit the Dolphins from practicing such a strategy -- even if they ''purchased'' the videos.

If�The�Miami Herald is quoting The NFL right and Salisbury is wrong, then there are no�need (and would be ineffective)�for The NFL to have rules that The NFL Franchises have to hand over their scouting films, when another NFL Franchise puts in a request. If you think the super rich NFL owners have NFL rules (they�vote on themselves)�that�prevent their owners (of their�huge profit making toys)�from taking advantage of such a advantage, then I think you are wrong.

quote:

Saban said Monday the Dolphins watched TV clips of Brady to get the calls, a strategy he admitted to helping his team.
''It's on TV,'' Saban said. ``You always try to get the other team's cadence. I'm sure they try to get ours, so when you know when a guy's checking off, when he isn't checking off. When a team does as much presnap stuff as they do, you're always trying to find out exactly why they're doing it.''

and Salisbury said this,
�

quote:

''If it was that easy to get the audio, everyone would be doing it,'' Salisbury said on SportsCenter. ``The NFL needs to look into it. If [the Dolphins] went out and bought a tape in order to get advantage, that's cheating. The NFL would have to step in. If you're going to purchase bootleg videos, it's cheating.''

Also, I�do not believe�the super rich NFL owners would purchase�the same scout films (that is if they do�not hire companies to film the games, for them), as High Schools coaches or even CFB coaches have or what we watch. As I stated before that is all only necessary if there is no other NFL Franchise that will do you a favor and lend you their film. Example,�any one of The NFL Franchises (in the running for The NFL Playoffs)�lending their scouting and Game�Films of any NFL Franchise Opponent (they already played) to the another NFL Franchise not eligiable for The NFL Playoffs so they have a better chance to beat one of the other NFL Franchises (egiliable for NFL Playoffs) within the same conference. The MDs must have Jacksonville (not Cincinnati, better Conference record no matter what and at worse can only tie MDs)�lose all 3-of their games for MDs to make The NFL Playoffs.

I think, this is just yet again, another coaching staff taking it to the extreme, by purchasing another separate set of video, just for the audio and visual of audible signals. I keep hereing is audio, when Miami Herald article wrote it was video, not audio. You know how much I respect (sarcasm)�ESPN, and 790 AM The Ticket's Guests (even on Boog's show), let alone most other Sports' media. Thus, even though Saban has good reason to mislead as well, I believe him because *rarely and saddly do other sports' media members call out lower journalistic standards members*. However, if Saban lies or whatever you want to call it, then he will be constantly called out, by the same media. Plus, The NFL is quote in making a statement that is true.

*Thank goodness for 560 AM's Hank 'The Hammer' Goldberg-equal opporunity critic of such lower standards. Latest, was of SI's Peter King�continued and manipulative questioning of Saban leaving for Univ. of Alabama setting himself up as a�great journalist in SI's eyes�even if Saban stays, as expected.*

< Message edited by GWsFBAReservUrFBTeam -- 12/14/2006 12:24:24 AM >

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/13/2006 11:58:39 PM

Great White

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Marauders,
�
�� Thanks, for the URL and article; great to know. I guess that makes the other member right and I was dead wrong. Wow, I guess they want to maintain no competitive advantage.
�
��I am going to contact The Miami Herald and point this out. Find out if The NFL does both, which makes no sense*, or if their research was wrong.
�
�� *-Unless The NFL allows/has not addressed�other recording companies exclusive access to record the games and it only to be given to that franchise, doubt it.

Also, in my M-DCPS' Ass. Coaching career there was no requirement. If there was one, then would not a organization(s) (like CFB's NCAA) have that rule, thus, national rule? Of course, as finished that sentence I realize that High School Football is even more loosely organized than CFB. Cal;fornia and probably other states no state playoffs, 7-man football in NW states and etc

< Message edited by GWsFBAReservUrFBTeam -- 12/14/2006 12:11:45 AM >

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/14/2006 12:09:51 AM

Marauders

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline

What Miami had done was purchase a tape that had the Tom Brady's pre-snap jargon and cadences. That is not something that a team can get from the game films provided by the teams.

The New York Giants had similar information on Daunte Culpepper in the NFC Championship games a few years back, and the Vikings offense was hammered and shut out by an otherwise respectable but not overwhelming Giants defense.

quote:

''If it was that easy to get the audio, everyone would be doing it,'' Salisbury said on SportsCenter. ``The NFL needs to look into it. If [the Dolphins] went out and bought a tape in order to get advantage, that's cheating. The NFL would have to step in. If you're going to purchase bootleg videos, it's cheating.''

Salisbury is correct here on one point; teams do not provide audio of there quarterback for good reason. Allowing teams to have a spy in the stands would be cheating much like having a spy steal signs from the outfield of a baseball game. On the other hand, if this information was taken from an edited tape of the game, it would be difficult to punish a team for doing so.

I would like to note that all game coverage on tape is the property of the NFL or NFL Films, so no person had the right to sell an edited tape as such to the Miami Dophins. That act in itself was a violation of federal copyrights laws.

- Marauders

(in reply to Great White)

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/14/2006 12:31:54 AM

Great White

Posts: 318
Joined: 11/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I would like to note that all game coverage on tape is the property of the NFL�or NFL Films, so no person had the right to sell an edited tape as such to the Miami Dophins.� That act in itself was a violation of federal copyrights laws.

Yeah, you are right, I totally forgot about that. since if there is rule from the whole then an member cannot violate it (see Jerry Jones, hate his NY Yankees like greed for revuenes).
�

quote:

What Miami had done was purchase a tape that had the Tom Brady's pre-snap jargon and cadences.� That is not something that a team can get from the game films provided by the teams.

The New York Giants had similar information on Daunte Culpepper in the NFC Championship games a few years back, and the Vikings offense was hammered and shut out by an otherwise respectable but not overwhelming Giants defense.

quote:

''If it was that easy to get the audio, everyone would be doing it,'' Salisbury said on SportsCenter. ``The NFL needs to look into it. If [the Dolphins] went out and bought a tape in order to get advantage, that's cheating. The NFL would have to step in. If you're going to purchase bootleg videos, it's cheating.''

Salisbury is correct here�on one�point; teams do not provide audio of their quarterback, for good reason.

You do realize that if you slow down the broadcast, of the warning, and listen to its copy right wording, then you will hear 'likeness' of The NFL broadcast (covering more than just�TV Broadcasts). That would make what Saban did cheating and against the rules.* Let alone�a huge advantage, imagine if all Colts opponents did the same.
�
*-Why am I remembering 790 Am The Tickets' Boog's comments, in so many words, Bill Belichick does the same thing with providing injuried players.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

Teams must share game films in the NFL, college, and in most high school leagues I know of.

Game films do not have sound and are, generally, shot in a full field view (F8 view in Maximum-Football).

For this very contraversial issue and other self and opponent evalutions, I would think they would have the best sound equipment, like was my high school experience-best video and sound we could afford.

< Message edited by GWsFBAReservUrFBTeam -- 12/14/2006 12:50:37 AM >

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(in reply to Marauders)

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/14/2006 12:37:25 AM

Great White

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Joined: 11/7/2006
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Well, again, unless The Miami Herald reporter (serves me right for trusting The Miami Herald standards in contraversial issues) can prove Green Bay Packers' words and copy right language does not apply to purchasing and using bootleg video, I was dead wrong and the other member was right as Marauders has proven.

Marauders,

I got to get back to work, on GW'sFBA and to off-computer world, soon. See yeah

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/14/2006 12:46:33 AM

Great White

Posts: 318
Joined: 11/7/2006
Status: offline

Subject:
RE: I Have a Question Based on Your Posted on Wed, Dec. 13, Article That Appeared in The Miami Herald.

Date:
Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:38:43 -0500

From:
"Darlington, Jeff" ��

To:
"Great White" <>
��

The videos that were referenced on the Packers' web site do not include
audio. The videos used by the Dolphins to study Brady's calls -- which
were not purchased -- were simply taken from television broadcasts.
Reason being, they include audio as opposed to the tapes provided by the
opposing team.

Hope that helps.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Great White
Sent: Wed 12/13/2006 5:16 PM
To: Darlington, Jeff
Cc:
Subject: I Have a Question Based on Your Posted on Wed, Dec. 13,
Article That Appeared in The Miami Herald.

Dear: Mr. Darlington,

You write and I quote, The NFL said Tuesday there is no rule that
would prohibit the Dolphins from practicing such a strategy -- even if they
''purchased'' the videos. Saban said Monday the Dolphins watched TV
clips of Brady to get the calls, a strategy he admitted to helping his
team.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/16226012.htm

Yet on the Green Bay Packers' official website, it is typed and I
quote, Each team has a video staff, and they film every game from both a
sideline angle and a high end zone vantage point. Following each game,
teams are required to provide the other teams in the league with their
footage.

http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2004/09/18/1/

Why and how* would any NFL Franchise's coaching staff do both? Is it,
yet again, another coaching staff taking it to the extreme, by
purchasing another separate set of video, just for the audio and visual of
audible signals?

*-Unless The NFL allows/has not addressed other recording companies
exclusive access to record the games and it only to be given to that
franchise, doubt it.

< Message edited by GWsFBAReservUrFBTeam -- 12/14/2006 12:56:44 AM >

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/14/2006 3:25:14 PM

firebirds

Posts: 54
Joined: 2/22/2006
From: Noblesville, IN
Status: offline

I do know for a fact that the California Interscholastic Federation (CIF), governing body of California High School sports, requires that football teams must trade game film with the opposition once playoffs start. The game film must contain a sample of all games played, handed over "X" days before the game and there are guidelines for content and length. The reason I know this is about 10, maybe 11, years ago I read in Sports Illustrated that my old high school had reached the state championship game for their division. But they were disqualified before the game was even played because the game film they supplied did not follow the guidelines as stated by the CIF. The tape didn't show a single scoring play.

I'm sure you can understand my anger when I read this. During my playing days, way back when, we were a very poor team. I was so happy to see that they had turned the program around but then to read that the head coach had cost the team a chance for glory before they even took the field just ripped my heart out. When I was coaching the very last thing I ever wanted to do was hurt the players chances of winning by making a poor decision on a single play let alone cost them the game before it was even played.

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/14/2006 4:15:34 PM

Great White

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Status: offline

firebirds,

Wow, Was the coaching staff or the one-member of the coaching staff that made the decision or supposed to know the rule book fired? Should have happen At least you qualified for the playoffs; unforunately, I was never on a team that did.

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/14/2006 6:43:58 PM

firebirds

Posts: 54
Joined: 2/22/2006
From: Noblesville, IN
Status: offline

The head coach was ultimately responsible of course. I do know that the game was played anyway but never heard the outcome nor what action was taken towards the head coach.

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RE: A While Back I Was Insulted For Stating In USAn Foo... - 12/14/2006 8:25:20 PM

Great White

Posts: 318
Joined: 11/7/2006
Status: offline

firebirds,
�
�� Yeah, but with the current sports environment�mild scandles (sp?) are alright enough (for sick sports organizations and�teams/programs/franchises)�to past the responsibilities from not punishing HCes at all to punish those under HCes, it makes sad common sense. If it was Professional FootBall, especially The NFL,�then the (local and then national) media would be luanched on it. If one watches the media coverages (of all FB�Levels)�and the more damning actions of sports media, the lower on the FBLs the less critical examinations by the media, let alone sports' media. Probably, because less attention and fans for lower FBLs.

��*Two-good examples of this�are the Hotter�scandals of The Northwestern star Senior (19-Years old-Junior) RB was accused of rapping a 14-year old woman, he admitted to it - having sex with her-, and The Lakeland star RB was accused of accepting gifts (includes money) from the surrounding (sp?)�community�for playing at Lakeland HS, he admitted to it.� The Hotter�scandals happened the week before The FHSAA's State Championship.
�
As an adult having sex with anyone under 17-years old is a crime, and not knowing her age has never been an acceptable excuse to not going to jail.�
�
The FHSAA was deciding what to do about�them and made it public comments, I think they tried to pressure Northwestern and Lakeland HSs to prevent�them from playing, because they would not want to take the affect The FHSAA's Championship Games. They both played and both teams won their State Championships. There is enough shame and responsibility�to go around here (schools, governing bodies and coaching staffs), even if their opponents set them up. Now, after the game,�The Northwestern Star Junior RB is being threatened of expolision from the high school, let alone the police actions; The Lakeland Star RB is a senior*, so the HS could do little more than hold him out of the game.��Expolsition of The Lakeland Star RB from the HS, before graduation could result in his party sueing. *This was information that both newspapers' sports section�and sports' radio�stations provided.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/16171626.htm

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/high_school/miami_dade/16206264.htm
http://www.jacksonville.com/apnews/stories/120706/D8LSBCGG0.shtml

It is just too easy for all of us, fans-I am only of CFB and Professional Sports-, to quickly move on and that is exactly how it PRed away.

< Message edited by GWsFBAReservUrFBTeam -- 12/14/2006 8:34:56 PM >

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