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I suck - 12/13/2006 4:52:31 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		I feel myself more stupid with this game than Artificial Insanity. In Preparing the Way I gave up becouse half of my forces got bombed and in Balkan Crisis I took four Panzer III to roughy hill to give them better LOS over trees just to see that trees block LOS anyway.

I play games to have fun, and so far I'm having more frustation with SPWAW than fun. Help me out before I throw towel! Please

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 12/13/2006 5:01:31 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: I suck - 12/13/2006 5:02:49 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Matti,

Have you read the tutorial in the manual?

Have you played the tutorial scenarios?

There is a SPWAW training academy over at The Depot.  Have you thought about joining The Depot and going through the SPWAW training course there?

Don't give up.  The SPWAW gaming community needs new players like you.


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Post #: 2
RE: I suck - 12/13/2006 5:14:38 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		perhaps you should try some generated battles first before trying those campaigns.
designers intentionally set those up to have some level of difficulty.



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Post #: 3
RE: I suck - 12/13/2006 5:53:57 PM   
Riun T

 

Posts: 1848
Joined: 7/31/2004
Status: offline 		also don't play with C&C on by default.

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Post #: 4
RE: I suck - 12/13/2006 8:33:47 PM   
azraelck

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		You just started out like anyone else did. SPWaW is a complex strategy game; you don't learn it overnight.

Try playing the long campaign a few times, playing with the units and learning what they can do. Once your'e adept at playing the long campaign, start going through the scenarios and campaigns as you will. They'll still be tough, but you'l have a better understanding of how the game works.

You can turn down the AI's relative strength; increase your own, and turn off mines to create a super-easy battle in the long campaign. That's what I started out with.


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Post #: 5
RE: I suck - 12/13/2006 11:46:34 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azraelck

You just started out like anyone else did. SPWaW is a complex strategy game; you don't learn it overnight.

But I learned Steel Panthers some 10 years ago... And I have played some of the tutorials (about year ago). I make more specific questions regarding infantry.

How infantry should approach suspected enemy positions (enemy units not seen yet)? Tell me some examples, like 1st scenario of Preparing the Way where france infantry is inside aircraft hangars.

If half tracks are available, how close it is reasonable to transport infantry towards enemy positions?

Is it ever good idea to move infantry with halftrack or other vehicle within some 3 hexes of enemy infantry, or any enemy unit, and dismount?

What are effective ways to locate hiding enemy infantry, other than move to adjacent hex and get killed?

Does scout and recon groups have other advantages over normal infantry squads besides faster movement? How close of enemy they can be taken without getting them killed?

Enemy infantry shoots from building or bunker but unit itself isn't seen. If structure is fired with (tank) cannons, does explosions and falling debris kill or wound infantry inside that building? (works in Classic BattleTech)

What are infantry machinegun effective ranges and how they should be deployed?

How tall are trees? How tall hill should unit be on so it can see over trees? Can unit on said hill see enemy unit in middle of forest?

Tanks move pretty slowly on rough terrain and they seem to get stuck there, or worse. Are there any tactical advantages which pays off hazards of rough terrain (high ground or something)?

In Preparing the Way my four 40 mm Bofors didn't get any enemy aircraft down. Does this weapon suck? How AA should be placed? What is recommended distance from own front line? Where and how is described weapon accuracy? Does size matter, or numbers?

German infantry seem to have HE ammo for anti tank weapons. What the Heck?

When playing Original Steel Panthers (released 10 or 11 years ago), there was this funny thing. One of my infantry squads got killed almost to last man. So there was just this one guy left, and he had inventory of whole squad including several panzerfausts. Does this still happen in SPWAW?

12 man infantry squad has rifles, submachineguns and maybe light machinegun(s). How many of each weapon are in squad?

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Post #: 6
RE: I suck - 12/14/2006 12:36:13 AM   
Orzel Bialy


Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline 		How infantry should approach suspected enemy positions (enemy units not seen yet)? Tell me some examples, like 1st scenario of Preparing the Way where france infantry is inside aircraft hangars.
Smoke! If you are approaching an area that you think my house enemy units then call in arty smoke if available. If not try to approach (slowly) from the flank with a few infantry units and then use them to generate a smoke screen to block a narrow avenue of approach for the rest of your force.

If half tracks are available, how close it is reasonable to transport infantry towards enemy positions?
Infantry generally dismounted from HT's to engage enemy infantry. I will usually dismount them a hex or two from a suspected enemy unit so that the infantry can help suppress/destroy them...or be able to pop smoke to cover all my units. Driving HT's up to an enemy unit can invite disaster if the enemy units have average or above AT weapons.

Is it ever good idea to move infantry with halftrack or other vehicle within some 3 hexes of enemy infantry, or any enemy unit, and dismount?
Are you are talking about he AI doing this? IIRC the squads dump that far away now at times to keep the AI from driving trucks and HT's right into a players defenses.

What are effective ways to locate hiding enemy infantry, other than move to adjacent hex and get killed?
Scouts / Recon units. They usually have higher spotting values and are smaller in size and should be harder for the enemy to spot as long as you don't move them in one long burst that can give them away.
You can also use cheap Armored Cars for this role. They can resist small caliber fire and move fast if they get into deeper trouble.

Does scout and recon groups have other advantages over normal infantry squads besides faster movement? How close of enemy they can be taken without getting them killed?
See above.

Enemy infantry shoots from building or bunker but unit itself isn't seen. If structure is fired with (tank) cannons, does explosions and falling debris kill or wound infantry inside that building? (works in Classic BattleTech)
Depending on the status of your units (pinned/buttoned/etc) and the direction they are facing you may not catch an enemy units true location the first couple times. I will usually move an AFV forward with a scout or infantry unit...dismount the infantry/scouts a hex or two away and have them try to spot the enemy unit when it fires on the armored vehicle.
As for enemy losses in burning buildings. I have seen enemy units take losses when indirect firing into a building...but usually it's more a loss of ready status...pinning.

What are infantry machinegun effective ranges and how they should be deployed?
On the flanks for offensive moves is what I do...in a supportive line while on the defensive. I will usually let the enemy close in (or get) about 200-300 yards away max before I open fire for best effect. I will only fire long range when I want to try and stall or delay an advance while in a desperate situation.

How tall are trees? How tall hill should unit be on so it can see over trees? Can unit on said hill see enemy unit in middle of forest?
Trees are handled in a somewhat abstract way in the game. They can sometimes be "thin" and block very little or "thick" and block very well. Height factors in depending on how high you are...what the visibility values are like and what the terrain is like.

Tanks move pretty slowly on rough terrain and they seem to get stuck there, or worse. Are there any tactical advantages which pays off hazards of rough terrain (high ground or something)?
Don't motor high speed into them...go slow. I have heard this works from some people and others say it doesn't make a difference. I personally have less issues when I move slower in rough/marshy ground...so take that for what it is worth
Second...let the infantry tackle the rough ground when possible. If you know AFV's are getting stuck then don't go there!

In Preparing the Way my four 40 mm Bofors didn't get any enemy aircraft down. Does this weapon suck? How AA should be placed? What is recommended distance from own front line? Where and how is described weapon accuracy? Does size matter, or numbers?

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Post #: 7
RE: I suck - 12/14/2006 12:38:08 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Incidently, Matti, you do not suck, you are just new to SPWaW. Orzel sucks.



Goblin

< Message edited by Goblin -- 12/14/2006 12:47:30 AM >

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Post #: 8
RE: I suck - 12/14/2006 1:46:49 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Incidently, Matti, you do not suck, you are just new to SPWaW. Orzel sucks.



Goblin

Actually When I saw the thread title "I suck" I didnt even look at the Author, I just assumed it was Goblin..


< Message edited by Alby -- 12/14/2006 1:56:39 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: I suck - 12/14/2006 3:51:14 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Matti,

Go slow.  Do not rush your units.  Go slow.

Be methodical.  Have a clear mission plan and don’t rush.

Move your units all together instead of one unit at a time.  This means move one unit one hex, then move a supporting unit one hex, then move another supporting unit one hex, etc.  This allows you to keep all your units in support of each other and that way they can all help each other when one unit gets into trouble.


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Post #: 10
RE: I suck - 12/14/2006 6:35:35 AM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline
quote:

German infantry seem to have HE ammo for anti tank weapons. What the Heck?


If they do, it's because they were given this in older versions. The new Enhanced Mod removes HE ammo from dedicated AT weapons like ATRs and bazookas. But, in older scenarios, you will still find this to be a problem, because the weapon data is kept inside the scenario data.

quote:

When playing Original Steel Panthers (released 10 or 11 years ago), there was this funny thing. One of my infantry squads got killed almost to last man. So there was just this one guy left, and he had inventory of whole squad including several panzerfausts. Does this still happen in SPWAW?


No. One of the best changes SPWAW made was to 'drop' weapons once the infantry unit crew size dropped below 4. What that means is, a unit with 4 or more men can fire all 4 weapons assigned; once it takes a casualty, the #4 weapon becomes unusable, as there are only 3 men left. This continues until the last man is killed and the unit destroyed.

quote:

12 man infantry squad has rifles, submachineguns and maybe light machinegun(s). How many of each weapon are in squad?


The game assumes the Primary Weapon is carried by every man in the Crew, and other weapons are carried by a single soldier in the unit. Which is why you will find weapons like "9mm MP38/40 SMGx5" in the game, representing 5 men with SMGs as a single weapon.



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Post #: 11
RE: I suck - 12/14/2006 9:13:02 PM   
Veroporo

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 10/20/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

Tanks move pretty slowly on rough terrain and they seem to get stuck there, or worse. Are there any tactical advantages which pays off hazards of rough terrain (high ground or something)?
Don't motor high speed into them...go slow. I have heard this works from some people and others say it doesn't make a difference. I personally have less issues when I move slower in rough/marshy ground...so take that for what it is worth
Second...let the infantry tackle the rough ground when possible. If you know AFV's are getting stuck then don't go there!


Tanks parked in rough terrain are assumed to be hull down and can only be hit to the turret. The downside is increased chance for breakdown. Though, if I'd have to peek over a hill/from forest I'd really want to minimize the risk of killing hit over a chance getting a pillbox.

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Post #: 12
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 1:05:03 AM   
sabrejack


Posts: 158
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Is it ever good idea to move infantry with halftrack or other vehicle within some 3 hexes of enemy infantry, or any enemy unit, and dismount?



Only if you're SURE that the enemy unit is HIGHLY suppressed, and you're 'mopping up'. Be vey careful of over extending yourself, it's a good way to get your units isolated, which often leads to them being surrounded and killed.







Like I've been doing to Alby recently in our PBEM game...


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Post #: 13
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 1:06:54 AM   
sabrejack


Posts: 158
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Matti,

Go slow.  Do not rush your units.  Go slow.

Be methodical.  Have a clear mission plan and don’t rush.

Move your units all together instead of one unit at a time.  This means move one unit one hex, then move a supporting unit one hex, then move another supporting unit one hex, etc.  This allows you to keep all your units in support of each other and that way they can all help each other when one unit gets into trouble.



very good advice for most situations in SP:WaW!



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Post #: 14
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 3:08:32 AM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		One thing to remember about halftracks (or other transport) and infantry: do NOT debuss your infantry from moving halftracks in view of the enemy. They will be considered 'moving' and run the risk of being cut down. Allow them to remain aboard the transport until your next turn, when they will be 'stationary' and they won't be as easy to hit and kill.

Only debark from the transports while moving if out of LOS of any enemy units.


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Post #: 15
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 5:40:04 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline

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Post #: 16
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 11:26:30 AM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

do NOT debuss your infantry from moving halftracks in view of the enemy.

So it is best to dismount before enemy contact? Got it. and I get infantry safely near fortified/hidden enemy by firing smoke. And I'll use scout and recon teams as spotters for indirect fire. But I still have questions left.

Would mortars be sufficient to fire smoke?

When advancing with infantry towards enemy, where comes my tanks? Ahead or behind infantry?

Are there other places to have tanks hull down than rough terrain?

How do I choose AA weapons? Few big and expensive cannons or many cheap ones?

[edit]
What are major differences in use of different recon vehicles (motorbikes, cars, armor) and scout/recon infantry?

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 12/15/2006 11:36:44 AM >

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

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Post #: 17
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 6:22:36 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		Mortars are great for smoke; they typically have shorter delay times, so they respond faster. And they are plentiful, esp. in the infantry battalions.

Tanks are best kept with your infantry; not too far ahead, not too far behind. The two must work in coordination to defeat the enemy; infantry to deal with other infantry and ATGs, tanks to deal with other tanks and defensive fortifications.

Tanks will usually be considered "hull down" in any terrain where they gain "Cover" status and have a height advantage over the enemy. They also are "hull down" behind Stone Walls.

For AA guns, it depends on what you need them to do: defend against aircraft or engage enemy ground forces. Large-caliber guns will do better against ground units, such as tanks; small-caliber guns are more effective against aircraft and infantry units.

Recon vehicles are worse at scouting than recon infantry, because they spend more time moving. But they are better at covering large distances quickly; if you can keep them unseen, they can get into the enemy rear faster and will help you spot units well behind the front. Infantry recon, OTOH, are best used in front of your advancing infantry, to spot AT and MG positions for the tanks to engage.

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Post #: 18
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 6:25:43 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		Mortars are sufficient for smoke and usually have more smoke rounds than larger guns. Some tanks can create a smoke screen also, as well as some recon and engineer units. Fire is a permanent smoke hex.

When a tank is higher in elevation than the unit that is firing at it or when it is “In cover” then it is also hull down.

Just about anything with a weapon will fire at aircraft. You won’t always face air strikes, so get AA that is dual purpose and use them as ATG (88’s) or to rake infantry (quad 50 cal.’s). If I am sure that I am going to get strafed by overwhelming airpower, then I get a platoon of rapid fire (quad 20 mm) AA and put them in the center of my side of the map. I’ve shot down 4 of 10 aircraft and damaged 5 of the remaining 6 that way.

People use motorcycles and AC’s to charge into the enemy rapidly so that all the enemy guns opfire and give their positions away. Since they are fast, they sometimes survive this. I prefer to set my 4-man recon patrol weapon range to zero and slowly creep around (or just set and watch) until I’ve found the enemy. You can also “Z” fire with another unit into a suspected enemy position and suppress them enough for your recon to move right next to them and not be seen. Learning how to use recon units is the best way to improve your play.


_____________________________

Astrologers believe that your future is determined on the day that you are born.
Warriors know that your future is determined on the day that your enemy dies.

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Post #: 19
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 10:12:07 PM   
spwaw


Posts: 70
Joined: 10/6/2001
From: Siberia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

I feel myself more stupid with this game than Artificial Insanity. In Preparing the Way I gave up becouse half of my forces got bombed and in Balkan Crisis I took four Panzer III to roughy hill to give them better LOS over trees just to see that trees block LOS anyway.

I play games to have fun, and so far I'm having more frustation with SPWAW than fun. Help me out before I throw towel! Please


MOI Matti !

Hi Matti !


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Post #: 20
RE: I suck - 12/15/2006 10:31:37 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

if you can keep them unseen, they can get into the enemy rear faster and will help you spot units well behind the front.

If my memory serves, I tried something like that on 1st tutorial mission with armored cars (could had been Wolverine). My plan was drive with them ahead while my tanks (Shermans and M-10s) were dealing with panzers. Anyways recon was stopped short when AA tank opened fire and damaged (or destroyed) leading car. So how do I keep noisy vehicles hidden but keep their LOS clear?


quote:

If I am sure that I am going to get strafed by overwhelming airpower, then I get a platoon of rapid fire (quad 20 mm) AA

I'll check it out if this weapon is available in Preparing the way. But how about 40 mm Bofors? I think it was most numerous AA weapon of Finnish Defence Force in WW2 and it was used against tanks too.


quote:

People use motorcycles and AC’s to charge into the enemy rapidly so that all the enemy guns opfire and give their positions away.

Was that really done in history? I mean, if tricks used in real history are available in SPWAW, I would like to try them first.


quote:

I prefer to set my 4-man recon patrol weapon range to zero and slowly creep around

Please define slowly. Like how many hexes in turn? And what exactly does speed have to do with spotting parameters?


quote:

You can also “Z” fire with another unit into a suspected enemy position and suppress them enough for your recon to move right next to them and not be seen.

Did that in Preparing the way. Target was western aircraft hangar where enemy fire was coming from. But they just kept scrathing paint of my Shermans! (and then dive bombers bombed most of my infantry company).


quote:

Learning how to use recon units is the best way to improve your play.

No wonder I suck: I used to play Steel Panthers without recon units.


Few more questions left. When LOS is only couple hexes at best, like on wine field on 1st scenario of Balkan Crisis, what choices do I have to find machine gun teams without walking on them? I have one idea: fire on said houses with mortars and overrun with couple Panzer III. Anyone has better advice?

It seems that unit can be mounted on vehicle only when they are on same hex. What is best way to get them on same hex? So far I have moved vehicle to edge of infantry's movement area and then moved infantry by clicking on next to vehicle and infantry stops on same hex with vehicle becouse lack of movement points. Bit frustrating you know.

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 12/15/2006 10:44:29 PM >

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

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Post #: 21
RE: I suck - 12/16/2006 1:24:46 AM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		Use the "shift" key to move one unit into the same hex as another.




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Post #: 22
RE: I suck - 12/16/2006 6:29:23 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Matti,

I don't know how well you read English, but the SPWAW manual has some good information in it.

Also, have you looked at any of the AARs and DARs in the AAR/DAR section of the forum?

< Message edited by vahauser -- 12/16/2006 6:38:19 AM >

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Post #: 23
RE: I suck - 12/16/2006 8:00:33 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

I don't know how well you read English, but the SPWAW manual has some good information in it.

I read well enough, but I have other books to read (like Total Warfare) and I've got school exam season on next week. I'll get on with manual when I'm done with Total Warfare (some 200 pages to go).


quote:

Also, have you looked at any of the AARs and DARs in the AAR/DAR section of the forum?

No, it didn't hit my eye before. I'll take a quick look over there right away, then get back to school books.

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

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Post #: 24
RE: I suck - 12/18/2006 4:26:40 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		Recon units are your eyes on the battlefield. Start them where you have a good LOS. At the beginning of every turn, cycle through the recon units and spot in every direction. Then move each one hex and spot as you go (if you are defending, then just leave them where they are). Don’t use all of their movement points so that you can back away from anything that you find. Move so that they take advantage of terrain to remain hidden or smoke their route. Drop light artillery in front of them to suppress any expected enemy. Take the time to recon a safe zone where your maneuver units can operate all the way to your objective.

Using tanks to overrun infantry that are in a building or entrenchment is usually a bad idea. Unless the infantry are dug in on or next to the victory hex, just smoke the area and take the VH. Now the infantry must leave their nice warm fighting position and attack you.
Good luck!

_____________________________

Astrologers believe that your future is determined on the day that you are born.
Warriors know that your future is determined on the day that your enemy dies.

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Post #: 25
RE: I suck - 12/28/2006 5:01:50 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		Tally ho! I've got more questions for you

I've never really understood meaning of weakly armored tank destroyers. Many of them have loysy armor which can be punched through by armored car's ~37 mm cannon. Sure some of them are cheap, like halftrack ones. But I need better understanding of this weapon branch. Where, why and how tank destroyers are to be used?


quote:

Game manual, page 57

Infantry units gain a defensive bonus if they only move one hex in a turn that they are fired on.
They also are less likely to be spotted if they move slowly. Such units are 25% as vulnerable as
units moving at a normal speed. Stationary units are 20% as vulnerable.

When, where and why would this be used? There are time limits you know, so crawling 1 hex per turn don't take units very far before turns run out. Where and when would be fast approach under fire (charge) be more appropriate? Tell me examples.

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

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Post #: 26
RE: I suck - 12/28/2006 6:35:02 PM   
Riun T

 

Posts: 1848
Joined: 7/31/2004
Status: offline 		Firstly,tank hunters operate best with a shoot from cover and move to new cover thoery,,they usually have very good fire control and accurate "view to range" first shot high percentages of hit. so position and turn them to make best use of long flanking "lanes of fire" with the intention of backing them out or inching them forward under converging swaths of cover.
Moving slowly,, especially after maybe trucking your units to the closest available cover for the transport at a "point of contact" allows u to "sneek" threw the remaining cover,, usually unspotted, to a "local of engagement".
walking or crawling units are harder to see than running units, so u can make some of your advances,ambushes instead of allout "charges" which will get u cut down!! 

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Post #: 27
RE: I suck - 12/28/2006 8:51:41 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		The "tank destroyer" concept was fueled by the thinking of the period that tanks would not fight tanks; tanks were 'breakthrough' weapons, used to exploit holes in the enemy's defense line by moving in his rear areas, destroying artillery and support units and disrupting communications. To fight tanks, it was thought, you needed tank destroyers, fast but lightly armoured vehicles that could shoot from cover, strike hard, and then move to new positions before the enemy tanks could pinpoint them.

Remember, at this time 'shooting from the move' was discouraged, as most of the tanks of the day did not have any means for keeping their main guns 'on target' while moving. The US M4 Sherman was an exception, having a rudimentary hydraulic stabilizer fitted to the breech which kept the muzzle 'locked' on the target. It only worked in the vertical plane, though, and only kept the gun steady at elevation; it did not keep the gun on the target as the tank changed positions, but did help when moving straight at the enemy.

As improvements in sighting and fire control gear were made, tanks became more multi-functional units, and the weaker-armoured tank destroyers were phased out in favour of better tanks.


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(in reply to Riun T)
Post #: 28
RE: I suck - 12/30/2006 4:46:56 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		I had done some research about TDs myself and Wikipedia proved to be very good source on that. Flashfyre is probably describing American thinking which don't fit on german heavy TDs, like Elefant and Jagdpanther. From lesser german TDs Marder II is modified Panzer II: new turret and bigger cannon on otherwise outdated tank. Makes nasty and maybe even embarrassing surprise for brand new Sherman.

And by the way, Wolverine isn't very fast either.

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 12/30/2006 4:58:41 PM >

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to FlashfyreSP)
Post #: 29
RE: I suck - 12/30/2006 7:03:41 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		Be careful using Wiki as a source; it's not as reliable as many would believe. I prefer to use documented books by well-known authors, with bibliographys that can be checked for sourcing.

The Germans had similar thinking in regards to the TD concept: to have armoured AT guns to engage enemy tanks from ambush, in order to allow the medium tanks ( the Pz IIIs) to breakthrough the defense line and rampage in the rear. As the war progressed, Hitler continued to press for bigger guns and more heavily-armoured vehicles, both tanks and TDs. But the general concept remained the same: use the TDs to engage the enemy tanks from cover, and use the tanks to manuever.


As for the Wolverine being fast, I did not say it was. But the successor, the M18 Hellcat, was the fastest AFV in WWII, at a top speed of 50mph.

< Message edited by FlashfyreSP -- 12/30/2006 7:15:12 PM >

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(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 30
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