What to do with IJN CVEs?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> What to do with IJN CVEs?

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What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/17/2006 5:51:58 PM

Q-Ball
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I'm new to PBEM and starting a game as IJN. What's the best use of the IJN CVE's? They are too slow and frail for front-line combat, I get that part. I'm curious though what other players use them for:

*AC Transport? That's what they are designed for, but almost all decent IJN/IJA aircraft have good legs, it's easier to fly base to base. Can't see a big need here.
*Put 27 Zeros on it, and use to cover an invasion TF? Probably plenty of cover against the Dutch or weak opposition, but wouldn't try that against serious US opposition
*Put 27 Kates on it on ASW, and use that as the nucleus of a large ASW TF. Only problem with that is they become a great SS target, as we'll be at sea where Subs are.
*Leave them in port, the VP hit from losing it isn't worth it

While we're at it, what's the best use for the IJN CS units?

*Attach to CV TF's, allowing you to use those AC for ASW/Naval Search, and take off Kates from Naval Search. Plus, they are decent AA platforms. This applies to 29 knot ones only, 22 knot CS too slow for that.
*Nucleus of ASW TF, as above
*Load with Zero Float Fighters, and cover invasion TF's. Not sure I like that one since those fighters are pretty useless, but throwing it out there for comment
*Include in large convoys on ASW
*Convert to CVL's as soon as you can (though by the time you can, the air war is lost)
*Shoot the IJN Planner who didn't convert them to CVL's in 1938.

Many many thanks in advance!!!!

Q-Ball

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/17/2006 10:15:02 PM

sveint
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I load mine with torpedo bombers and use them for added punch in the CV task forces (or in a minor CV TF next to the "real" one). I've only actually seen them fly against Allied CVs once, but the extra air attack with torpedoes did seem to help. I'm also hoping someday they will be taken for targets before KB.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/17/2006 10:24:31 PM

seydlitz_slith
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Early in the war you can split units and put small units of kates and claudes or zeroes on the CVEs. Then send them down into the area south of Davao and use them to pick off escaping allied shipping. Even if you get hit, the bombs carried by the B-18s and Martin 139s won't even damage you enough to kill flight operations (unless you get a serious critical hit or you get multiple hits). Normally you won't even get hit.

After that, either use them as ASW carriers or park them (safer).

The CS ships are another story. They are very useful. With their speed, I use them to provide scouting for the KB, or for major surface combat forces. They can also provide serious ASW protection for the same forces. I have also sent them on single ship missions to open ocean areas with their planes on Naval search. Single ship TF are hard to spot, and they have enough speed to run if they get spotted. I have had them save me from enemy units trying to sneak in unspotted several times. These are actually some of the most useful auxiliiares that Japan has. Forget converting them to carriers.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/17/2006 10:58:34 PM

2ndACR
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I use them to form a baby KB with the CVL's. Armed with Kates and Zero's, they can take on 1-2 Allied CV's and pound them to dust. Against 3 CV's it might get real dicey. I also combine them with the slower fleet CV's (the 25 knot ones) as added punch. Also, they really allow me to tailor my strike force. I can swap out with Zero's, Kates and Vals at will. Very good decoy force since Vals usually mean KB to alot of Allied players.

I very, very rarely use any type of CV, CVL, CVE for ASW ops. Just train up some Helens and Lily's and watch them go to work once they hit 85+ experience.

The fast CS ships are used by me for ASW sometimes, but mainly scouting for CV forces only. Would hate for one to get beat up in a surface battle.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/19/2006 1:01:09 PM

kkoovvoo
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I lost Hiryu but managed to save all 3 airgroups from her. Now i have 3 carrier trained groups which I can place on empty CVE. Although their size is smaller than ideal (23 Zeroes, 23 Vals, 15 Kates).

Carrier capable, but not carrier trained groups, had significantly higher op losses when I used them on CVEs.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/19/2006 3:28:19 PM

RUPD3658
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Put fighters of bombers on the CVEs and put them with the CVs. Every plane helps.

For the CS use them as the eyes of the CV group. You can also station Rufe float fighters on them for added protection for the CV group.

< Message edited by RUPD3658 -- 9/19/2006 3:29:03 PM >

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/19/2006 4:40:21 PM

Sneer
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if you are setting trap or play on defensive add them to KB
speed is not a big problem if you are in right place and time
6 CVE means 150 additional planes
I prefer to put all fighters on them and set them to escort as this part have heaviset losses while regular CV fighters are saved with cap duty

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/20/2006 4:04:01 AM

2ndACR
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I have never really seen nor had high losses from operating carrier capable groups from CVE's or CV's. Maybe 1 or 2 a/c a week. And that is while they are in combat too.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/20/2006 5:34:18 AM

Knavey
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As an Allied only player...I try to sink them!

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/20/2006 4:55:15 PM

SireChaos
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

Put fighters of bombers on the CVEs and put them with the CVs. Every plane helps.

*snip*

Exactly. Screw operational losses. I´d rather lose a couple more planes to crashes - or even lose *many* more planes to crashes - than lose a carrier or two to those bombers that managed to slip through CAP because I didn´t have the additional fighter squadrons there.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/20/2006 6:31:38 PM

AmiralLaurent
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I think it is a bad idea to use CVE with the main body of KB. If you do it divide your TF into fast (speed 25 and more) and slow CV, and order the fast ones to follow the slow ones. This will allow you to pursue or to react to your opponent moves.

Fast CV may achieve surprise. I usually arrive in an area with the fast CV, while the slow ones are escorting the convoys 1-2 days later. Then all CV combine during the landing.

By the way the Hiyo and Junyo (speed 24 knots) are the admiral ships of the CVE TF...

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 9/20/2006 11:53:55 PM

Arstavidios
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I use them to provide air cover to my AOs.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 10/4/2006 3:47:53 AM

TeK
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yea you can use them to cover oil imports, that's good too

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 10/4/2006 2:10:59 PM

Mike Solli
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I use my CVEs as spare flight decks to receive CV/CVL aircraft in the event of battle damage to my primary flight decks. I usually don't bother using CVEs as air cover for merchant convoys. If an American CV TF finds the convoy (which is unlikely) that convoy (along with the CVE(s) is toast. I think the primary threat to merchant convoys is subs. Sure you can use CVEs to protect against subs, but why not use a CS? They carry 20-24 floatplanes that can be used for ASW with a range of 0 (protecting the hex the convoy is in only).

Just a thought.....

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 10/4/2006 2:45:50 PM

Arstavidios
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Well I use them to give CAP to my replenishement TF with AOs.
This TF usually operates with the KB and japanese AOs are few and precious. A little extra aircover can't hurt. they are not supposed to operate on the front line. They also act as a reserve in case things turn sour for the big boys. An extra hundred zeros can sometimes save your @$$.

CS also operate with the carriers. they are too useful there to waste them doing a job LBA can do.

< Message edited by Arstavidios -- 10/4/2006 2:50:01 PM >

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/15/2006 11:06:35 AM

marky
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also can use em for ASW, liek the HK group that captured U-505, which ive been on, twice. omg that was fun

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/15/2006 5:51:12 PM

6971grunt
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Isn't the modern cell phone great

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/27/2006 10:51:52 PM

The Dude
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I park a group of zeros on them and use them asd CAP ships so my CVs can use their zeros as escorts. Apart from higher non mission losses they do pretty well

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/28/2006 8:20:33 AM

Nemo121
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Just today a combined CVE/CVL air combat TF operating off Ceylon in late December 1941 got involved in a tangle with the Royal Navy's carriers. I managed to put 6 torpedoes into Indomitable at no cost to myself and managed to dodge the torpedoes the Albacores sent my way.

This is after they have already sunk a half-dozen Allied merchant ships and is going to be followed, tomorrow, by me beginning a pursuit of the remaining Royal Navy ships in the area.

In essence they are warships and thus they can fight. If you were going to keep units out of the fight because of fragility then you shouldn't put Zeroes in the front line either. No, fragility just means your losses will be higher in any given operation and therefore you need to be SURE the risk is worth it. You can't use CVEs for speculative, low-reward ops. You need to use them in targeted, high-reward operations to justify the likely losses.

Destroying the RN's ability to interfere with an amphibious invasion of India is an example of such an operation.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/28/2006 2:03:35 PM

SireChaos
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What were these ships historically used for? I have never seen anything mentioning them in any operation.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/28/2006 2:06:37 PM

Yamato hugger
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

What were these ships historically used for? I have never seen anything mentioning them in any operation.

Training. Training carrier crews and training carrier pilots.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/28/2006 8:19:22 PM

princep01
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Yes, I agree they were used primarily as trainers, but they also saw service as ASW units and plane ferrying craft. If memory serves me well, I do not think the CVEs (as opposed to CVLs) were used in as fleet engagement CVs. Too slow and small.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/29/2006 5:52:20 AM

The Dude
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i think most if not all of their CVE's LOST AT SEA were sunk by subs

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/29/2006 6:51:29 AM

alanschu
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Wasn't the Bogue used to escort convoys in the Atlantic, since their planes were better at spotting submarines before they became a problem?

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/31/2006 1:06:27 AM

LargeSlowTarget
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I'm new to PBEM and starting a game as IJN. What's the best use of the IJN CVE's? They are too slow and frail for front-line combat, I get that part. I'm curious though what other players use them for [snip]

I put their construction on hold as soon as possible and use the shipyard points thus saved (merchant shipyard points AFAIK) to accelerate something useful - like lots of ARs.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 12/31/2006 1:17:15 AM >

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 12/31/2006 3:02:46 PM

spence
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Here's a link to their TROMs at Combined Fleet...convoy escort duty and a/c ferry duty seem to be their primary functions. Four got sunk by US subs and the last was wrecked by a/c but stayed afloat to surrender.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/cvlist.htm

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 1/1/2007 10:32:20 PM

saj42
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I do similar to Mike Solli...

I put the CVEs in my Replen TFs. I put 9 Kates or Vals on for local ASW (range zero). The extra space is reserved for orphaned air units if one of the front line CVs takes any damage over 50% that stops air ops (hopefully they will land on the CVE and not another CV and put it over 115% capacity) - this also means putting your Replen TF a little more in harms way.
Also the 9 a/c can be used as replacements for the groups on the CVs (sort of poor mans version of the Allied Replenishment CVEs).

Have not yet been out to the test in a major CV engagement so can't say if it will work as I designed

I have no idea how the code works when CVs take over 50% damage - do the air units only transfer to another CV in same hex or will they fly out to another deck at normal/extended/transfer range

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 1/2/2007 1:28:09 PM

Mike Solli
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I did have a couple of CVEs "participate" in a CV battle once. I had 2 CVEs trailing one hex behind a 2 CV TF in the Aleutians supporting an invasion of Attu. The Enterprise showed up and a battle ensued with our CVs 2 hexes apart

and the CVEs one hex east. My CVs were in a rainstorm and watched the Enterprise sink the CVEs and get away unscathed.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 1/2/2007 2:27:36 PM

huggarn
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Have anyone put the Jack fighter on a CVE?

Im in 1944-09 and I have a couple of Jack units that would fit on a CVE.

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RE: What to do with IJN CVEs? - 1/2/2007 3:39:56 PM

tanjman
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huggarn,

The J2M Jack is not carrier capable, so can only fly off (i.e. transfer) to a base, not operate from a carrier.

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