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Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 8:37:48 AM   
timocrates

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline 		This game is over two years old, and it costs $70 US for a digital download. Is there any reason it is so expensive? Does anyone know where to get it cheaper?
Post #: 1
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:04:38 AM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Lets see. $70 USD. Assuming you play 350 days a year, that is .20  a day. 

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Post #: 2
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:18:39 AM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline 		But if you don't like the game, you've thrown away $70.

He does have a point.  The only reason why I bought the game was because it was on sale.  The lack of demo, and the rather high price, were a bit of a turn off.  I guess no skin off their back, since they did sell it to me.  But without that sale, no dice.

I can't imagine video games being THAT inelastic from a price perspective.

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Post #: 3
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:20:24 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline 		You can buy a game a month for $30-$50 or you buy this one for $70 and not buy another for the rest of the year (maybe even 2 years). 'Nuff said.

Chez

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RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:26:06 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

But if you don't like the game, you've thrown away $70.


Your point? You take a chance any time you buy a game. How many other games have you bought that you didin't like? How much did they cost you?

I've played this game for 2.5 years and have only bought one other game in that time. It cost $50 and sits on my shelf gathering dust. As far as I'm concerned, the price for WitP is well worth it so kwitcherbitchn and either play it or through it away.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

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Post #: 5
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:29:09 AM   
alanschu

 

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Joined: 12/21/2006
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quote:

You can buy a game a month for $30-$50 or you buy this one for $70 and not buy another for the rest of the year (maybe even 2 years). 'Nuff said.


Of course, if you don't like the game, you're out a large sum of money.  Because there are people on this board that really enjoy it and play it all the time, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will like it.

There's no assurances that you're going to get a game that you can play for two years, regardless of the price.  Like I said, I bought the game specifically because it was on sale, and even then, it was a TOFTT type situation.  The lack of demo also hurts, because I literally went into the game flying blind.  I have been lucky (so far) that I have enjoyed the game.  I'm a year into the war as the Allies.  I don't typically do this, but there were a number of my friends intrigued about the game.

Unfortunately, based on my AAR of my initial campaign, and descriptions of gameplay and AI, none of them feel it's worth the $70 (which unfortunately also leaves me without any good candidates for a PBEM game).

< Message edited by alanschu -- 1/9/2007 9:41:11 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:30:27 AM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Your point? You take a chance any time you buy a game. How many other games have you bought that you didin't like? How much did they cost you?


I have not bought any 2.5 year old games for $70.

Yes you take a chance.  And if the chance isn't worth it, you wait for the price to come down. I wonder if there are people still waiting, or worse yet, no longer waiting, and moving on elsewhere.


quote:

I've played this game for 2.5 years and have only bought one other game in that time. It cost $50 and sits on my shelf gathering dust. As far as I'm concerned, the price for WitP is well worth it so kwitcherbitchn and either play it or through it away.


I'm not bitching. I own the game.

< Message edited by alanschu -- 1/9/2007 9:42:59 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:51:26 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not bitching. I own the game.



alanschu:
My reply came out a little harsher than I had intended. No offence was intended but this subject has come up dozens of times and it always results in the same answers.

BTW, I once paid $80 for GG's War in Russia from SSI during the mid-80s.

Timocrate:
This is a grognard level game with lots of micromanagement. If you have just a casual interest in the era, its probably not the game for you. If you are more attuned to video games, buy an FPS because this certainly isn't the game for you. If your idea of a fun game doesn't include record keeping, don't even think about buying it.

Is the game perfect? No. Is the game fun? Yes. Is the game frustrating? Yes. Could it be better? Yes. It is the best WWII Pacific strategic simulation game available.

Chez

< Message edited by ChezDaJez -- 1/9/2007 10:02:57 AM >

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Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

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Post #: 8
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:03:46 AM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline 		I think I'm more just commenting that it's unusual for a game that is so old to still be priced so high.

Obviously Matrix/2by3 feel that the game's price is inelastic, and won't really net more money if they drop it.  Had there been a demo though, I probably would have paid the $70 for it, rather than the sale price over Christmas.

It's nice to be able to rationalize the worth of the game by taking the $70 and spreading it out over the length of use, but as an annoying selfish consumer, I'd still rather pay less for that same experience.  It's human nature :)

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Post #: 9
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:21:38 AM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alanschu

quote:

You can buy a game a month for $30-$50 or you buy this one for $70 and not buy another for the rest of the year (maybe even 2 years). 'Nuff said.


Of course, if you don't like the game, you're out a large sum of money. Because there are people on this board that really enjoy it and play it all the time, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will like it.

There's no assurances that you're going to get a game that you can play for two years, regardless of the price. Like I said, I bought the game specifically because it was on sale, and even then, it was a TOFTT type situation. The lack of demo also hurts, because I literally went into the game flying blind. I have been lucky (so far) that I have enjoyed the game. I'm a year into the war as the Allies. I don't typically do this, but there were a number of my friends intrigued about the game.

Unfortunately, based on my AAR of my initial campaign, and descriptions of gameplay and AI, none of them feel it's worth the $70 (which unfortunately also leaves me without any good candidates for a PBEM game).


Best way to get a feel for the game is get up early one morning, brew some good coffee, and begin to read an AAR (After Action Report), preferably one that the author posts full of screenshots. Not only will you get a feel for the scope and strategy, but you will get to see alot of in game screens with explanations as to what you are seeing. If the AAR is well written and illustrated you will be sucked into an alternate history of the War in the Pacific and might even learn something.

I recommend VSWG or Fuerer Kriegs AARs. Purely due to their style of AAR writing. There are others.

If you want to get a peek and some great strategy, high experience combined with great humor(name-calling in Aussie, and dancing banana's and Stormtroopers) check out the longest running rivalry between Raverdave and the Banana Boy (Luskan)himself in Aussie Affair III - This time it's personal. A great read if not well illustrated.

VSWGs has ended, but is several pages long and VERY well illustrated. Fuerer Kriegs is older and ongoing though slowly it seems at the moment.

Just beware that they both use many art mods, very easily obtainable, but nonetheless not representative of the product out of the box.

Links:
Fuerer Kriegs 3 x 3 Emperor's Champs
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=908799
VSWG vs. Gary - The Allied Perspective
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1187748
Aussie Affair III - This time it's personal
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1286106

< Message edited by TheElf -- 1/9/2007 10:45:30 AM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:37:05 AM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

VSWGs has ended, but is several pages long and VERY well illustrated. Fuerer Kriegs is older and ongoing though slowly it seems at the moment.



Hopefully that will change now (the part about going slowly). This past Sunday, we (the Japs) turned a turn around in less than 12 hours I think. Also, now that the holidays are over I think we are all able to get back to the game a bit more.


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Post #: 11
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 1:35:33 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I have been a World War II history buff for almost 40 years. I started out with board games in the early 70's and bought over a $1000 dollars worth in the early 80's (mainly from SSI). Now, all my games are via a computer.

"IF" WWI is your favorite era of history and game playing, this game is a MUST. Looking at your list of games, it would seem that you enjoy this period of history. Your knowledge of the Pacific War will grow tremendously from this game. There is so much to it either by stock or many of the mods. This game is very well support both officially and by the players, that it is the BEST game on the Pacific out there, period!!


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Post #: 12
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 7:53:32 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		If a person is concerned about paying full pop for a two and half year old game, he should consider the fact that Matrix still has people working on improvements to the game to this day. How many other games are in this situation after two and half years?

When added to the fact that there is no other game with this sort of scope, and you will find that the money is well spent, indeed.

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Post #: 13
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 8:42:12 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		what Brad said.

This game is certainly NOT expensive and you will find here a many players from not so rich countries who thinks that this game is a bargain! (including me).

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Post #: 14
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 8:49:18 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alanschu

quote:

You can buy a game a month for $30-$50 or you buy this one for $70 and not buy another for the rest of the year (maybe even 2 years). 'Nuff said.


Of course, if you don't like the game, you're out a large sum of money.  Because there are people on this board that really enjoy it and play it all the time, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will like it.

There's no assurances that you're going to get a game that you can play for two years, regardless of the price.  Like I said, I bought the game specifically because it was on sale, and even then, it was a TOFTT type situation.  The lack of demo also hurts, because I literally went into the game flying blind.  I have been lucky (so far) that I have enjoyed the game.  I'm a year into the war as the Allies.  I don't typically do this, but there were a number of my friends intrigued about the game.

Unfortunately, based on my AAR of my initial campaign, and descriptions of gameplay and AI, none of them feel it's worth the $70 (which unfortunately also leaves me without any good candidates for a PBEM game).



In the last three years I have purchased WitP and seven other games costing $20-$40. I played three of those games for less than a week. My point: you can spend more than $70 on games that you don't like even (or especially) if they are cheap

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Post #: 15
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 8:49:30 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		The real answer to “Why is it so expensive?”, is basically because “the market will bear it”.

WitP is very much a niche game. It appeals to grognards who are interested in the Pacific theater of WW2.

Grognards are:
a. Normally are 30 – 60 years old
b. Usually some-what balding
c. Generally a little over-weight
d. Often lack certain social skills (well evidenced by some of the board’s replies)
e. Tend to live in caves (or their office/den/library), surrounded by books on WW2 that no one else has every heard of
f. Because of the previous 5 traits, they are frequently divorced or single. Or are married with limited opportunities for a “real” social life.

However, because of their lack of social life, Gronards usually:
a. Have a little bit more disposable income.

Enter Matrix business strategy team...

Joel - Hey Gary. What’d you do last night?

Gary - Nuttin’.

Joel – Hm. I see you’re about 60, are somewhat balding, a bit over-weight, and lack a social life.

Gary – So. What of it? Oh, and I didn’t do “nuttin” last night. I stayed up finishing Shattered Sword.

Joel – (makes check on list - lacks social skills, and gold star beside lacks social life). Oh nothing. Just checking. You’re into WW2 right?

Gary – Yep. I’m the WW2 gawd, I once wrote this game called PacWar...

Joel – Great. I’ve got a new project for you, it’s called WitP…

.
.
.

Mike – So Joel, did Gary buy off on WitP?

Joel – Yep, we got him. What do you see as problems in development?

Mike – Well, Gary’s not cheap. The scope of this thing is huge. We’re talking about issuing orders to PT-109 to “Patrol, do not retire”, so you can recreate JFK getting run over an IJN destroyer.

Joel – Yeah. Whatever you just said. It think if we try to sell this game to middle-aged, balding, fat guys living in caves, who are interested in WW2, and have no social life, we can make some money on this thing. There aren’t not a lot of them (that whole “interested in WW2 is problematic). But I think we can make enough on the game so that at least we won’t have to pay you in Nigerian money anymore.

Mike – Support is gonna be a b_tch. We’re going to have to maintain this thing, long after our grandchildren have graduated college. You know grognards. They finally got fed up the family cat for wrecking their table games, and bought themselves a PC. The last game they bought was that PacWar game from the 1983. They’ve been playing the same d_mn game for 23 years. They finally decided they want a new game, so we’re gonna give it to them. But we’ve got to make it expensive, because you know they’re not going to buy another game for another 23 years.

Joel – I see your point. How does $70 sound…?

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 1/9/2007 9:03:11 PM >

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RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 8:53:26 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

A-C and E apply to me whole-heartedly...

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Post #: 17
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 8:56:07 PM   
tsimmonds


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From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus



A-C and E apply to me whole-heartedly...


Don't forget D....

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Post #: 18
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 8:57:01 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Working on it... when I'm not here...

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Post #: 19
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:20:38 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
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From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus



A-C and E apply to me whole-heartedly...


Mr T, say it ain't so!

Back to the topic - I would have paid more for the game if necessary, once I knew what kind of game this is (nothing like it anywhere).

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Post #: 20
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:31:01 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Feinder, I'll have you know that I am not balding, nor anywhere near so! And my social skills are at least good enough to know that the "one finger salute" is not acceptable in polite society...



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Post #: 21
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:52:52 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timocrates

This game is over two years old, and it costs $70 US for a digital download. Is there any reason it is so expensive? Does anyone know where to get it cheaper?


I can't think of one other game developer that is still supporting their product 2.5 years after release. We get patches (OK so its got more than its fair share of bugs), user requested enhancements and on-line support. And as a bonus, this forum with a great bunch of guys (and yes that does include Ron ).
.... Oh and not forgetting the Modders with all their goodies


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Post #: 22
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 9:54:55 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus



A-C and E apply to me whole-heartedly...


Don't forget D....

In my case its all except B - i'm so lacking in social skills


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Post #: 23
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:08:29 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
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From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder
....
Grognards are:
a. Normally are 30 – 60 years old
b. Usually some-what balding
c. Generally a little over-weight
d. Often lack certain social skills (well evidenced by some of the board’s replies)
e. Tend to live in caves (or their office/den/library), surrounded by books on WW2 that no one else has every heard of
f. Because of the previous 5 traits, they are frequently divorced or single. Or are married with limited opportunities for a “real” social life.
....
-F-


No - That's not my bag baby! Honestly!




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 24
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:18:17 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timocrates

This game is over two years old, and it costs $70 US for a digital download. Is there any reason it is so expensive? Does anyone know where to get it cheaper?


always the same discussion once 3 months...

divide the hours of play time through the price of the game and you will get a cheap game. it give you the most bang for the buck.



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Post #: 25
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:23:43 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I'm in a catagory all my own.....

(just ask the GF unit)



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Post #: 26
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:26:56 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
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From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

(just ask the GF unit)




you mean the plastic puppet you had ordered from the french store nearby ?



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Post #: 27
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:29:08 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
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From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

(just ask the GF unit)




you mean the plastic puppet you had ordered from the french store nearby ?




your confusing me with Terminus.

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Post #: 28
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:30:56 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		or Mr. Frag...

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Post #: 29
RE: Why so expensive? - 1/9/2007 10:33:44 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Here's a recent picture of Terminus at his new internship:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 30
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