Is there any reason not to plunder?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> Is there any reason not to plunder?

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Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 12:18:50 PM

Gresbeck

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From: Ferrara - Florence
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I don't understand if plundering has drawbacks (penalty in combat or something like that, I couldn't find anything about it in the manual). If not, I don't understand why it shouldn't occur automatically.

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 2:19:57 PM

Paper Tiger

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Well once you take the area it is pretty worthless and can cost a fortune just to get enough mansions up so that you can build a capital and get the base income. Also makes it very difficult to build what the new governor asks for once you have captured the area. Otherwise it does a lot of good for dragging the other guy down. Best way to do it is with seaborne invasions, you can't really capture the area until well down the line and laying it waste does you a lot of good.

(in reply to Gresbeck)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 5:18:55 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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not sure if what Tiger is saying is clear

if you are planning on trying to capture an area, then you do not want to burn that area down

but if you are just on a raid, or want to cause damage, plundering is great

the Union if things work out right, can slip on down into Tenn and then Ala, and do some nasty and then run back home again, early in the war, but if they tied to take those places they would never make it

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(in reply to Paper Tiger)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 5:36:58 PM

Gresbeck

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From: Ferrara - Florence
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

not sure if what Tiger is saying is clear

It's clear, thaks to both

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 5:44:44 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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Kewl :)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 6:51:45 PM

regularbird

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plundering should hold a penalty in european relations for the plunderer. It should hurt the govenors attitude for the side being plundered, but it should have a chance to stiffen the will to fight, not just weaken it.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 6:55:25 PM

jimwinsor

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Hmmm...naw, I think it should just weaken it. Sherman's March to the Sea was what really broke the CSA national will. Having such a grand manuever actually boomerang would be too ahistorical IMO.

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Streaming as "Grognerd" at https://www.twitch.tv/grognerd

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 7:01:35 PM

chris0827

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quote:

ORIGINAL: regularbird

plundering should hold a penalty in european relations for the plunderer.� It should hurt the govenors attitude for the side being plundered, but it should have a chance to stiffen the will to fight, not just weaken it.

I agree but only in the early part of the war. The populations of both sides would've been horrified by something like Sherman's march as well as the european powers in 1862. After hundreds of thousands had died the northern people saw it as a justifiable means to end the war and europe saw it as a weak confederacy.

(in reply to regularbird)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/11/2007 7:07:11 PM

regularbird

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I agree with chris. Jim both sides were outraged in 62 when fredericksburg was plundered, you think that act weakened the nations will to fight? I think to much emphasis is being placed on shermans march to the sea in 64. How about the previous 2.5 years of the war? I think Chris has a good piont make this rule driven by date or the current NW of the nation being plundered, or even the NW of the plunderer, as you said in 64 the USA felt it justified.

(in reply to jimwinsor)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/12/2007 1:12:01 PM

christof139

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Before and during the war in Kansas and Missouri there was much killing, plundering, bushwacking and related atrocities occurring. This was all publicized and there was much outrage on both sides.

During the ACW, both sides claimed the other was committing atrocities and that thier side didn't, and that is part of the propaganda war that exists in all wars.

These things occur in every war and related and similar events.

Chris

(in reply to regularbird)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/13/2007 2:31:31 AM

Gil R.

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Someone has already suggested on the "Wish List" thread that plundering should have a chance to hurt European relations, and we're considering that for the patch.

(in reply to christof139)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/13/2007 5:09:52 AM

christof139

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And yet the Europeans had and were plundering the rest of the world, Colonialism etc. I think it was called.

To heck with European relations in the game, the European Governments could care less who was right or wrong or if the was was being fought according to some set of imaginary rules that they themselves didn't live up to. They would sell arms, munitions, and supplies to both sides in the ACW.

Many people in Europe were genuinely concerned, and that was what the European Governments were concerned about, what would their own people do if they did or didn't support one side or the other. Hence, the European Governments allowed the selling of items to both sides, took a neutral stance, and perhaps actually had little if any idea of getting involved militarily.

Chris

(in reply to Gil R.)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/13/2007 4:02:36 PM

Jakerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: christof139

And yet the Europeans had and were plundering the rest of the world, Colonialism etc. I think it was called.

To heck with European relations in the game, the European Governments could care less who was right or wrong or if the was was being fought according to some set of imaginary rules that they themselves didn't live up to. They would sell arms, munitions, and supplies to both sides in the ACW.

Many people in Europe were genuinely concerned, and that was what the European Governments were concerned about, what would their own people do if they did or didn't support one side or the other. Hence, the European Governments allowed the selling of items to both sides, took a neutral stance, and perhaps actually had little if any idea of getting involved militarily.

Chris

As far as I understand British and France goverments actually wanted confederate to get away from Union under the table but kept support nominal as Southern slave based economy was very unpopular at common people in UK and France that saw it similar than feudal serf system at wordiest case open support to south could have result some type of revolution in either France or UK.

They also feared that if South lose or is not determined to fight at all and sesession is solved trough negotiations it would drive relations with USA very strange position as trying to break up other country openly is almoust as same offence than declaring war in international politics.

< Message edited by Jakerson -- 1/13/2007 4:13:47 PM >

(in reply to christof139)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/13/2007 7:46:17 PM

jimwinsor

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Yeah. I get the impression European public opinion actually *liked* Union plundering of the south, especially when said plundering focused on destruction of plantations and things related to the economic infrastructure of slavery.

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/15/2007 9:49:36 PM

christof139

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quote:

As far as I understand British and France goverments actually wanted confederate to get away from Union under the table but kept support nominal as Southern slave based economy was very unpopular at common people in UK and France that saw it similar than feudal serf system at wordiest case open support to south could have result some type of revolution in either France or UK.

They also feared that if South lose or is not determined to fight at all and sesession is solved trough negotiations it would drive relations with USA very strange position as trying to break up other country openly is almoust as same offence than declaring war in international politics.

Yes, that is similare to what I said. However, the British and French Governments did sell to both sides, and their manin concern was that the majority of popular opinion in their countries was for the Union, while the Governments and Industrialists of britain and france were mainly concerned with making money, so the longer the war went on the more profits they made, and if the CSA had become independent then that would have benefited the Governments and Industrialist of Britain, France and other European nations, as the USA would then have been divided and weakened and the CSA was siply another market for Eurpean goods and a big producer of agricultural products for the European market, especially cotton. Hence, during the war, Britain started rasing cotton in India I do believe it was. Seems the Governments these European powers had more of an economic outlook of the war rather than a moral outlook on the war.

Economics and profits sometimes affect our western civilization a bit too much in my view, at the expense of morals and other socio-economic aspects, and the same may be said for every civilization that has and does exist on our planet both in the past and the present.

Chris

PS: I have employment openings in the Republic of hris for the following positions: 1) Minister of Economics, position may be purchased from the Head of State of the Republic of Chris, me in other words, for a mere $101.25 US currency. 2) Colonelcy of the 1st Regiment of PBI, $55.55 US currency. 3) Majority of the 1st Regiment of PBI, $31.31 US currency. If interested, please contact me. Hmmmm??

(in reply to Jakerson)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/17/2007 7:42:19 PM

ABridgeTooFar

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quote:

PS: I have employment openings in the Republic of hris for the following positions: 1) Minister of Economics, position may be purchased from the Head of State of the Republic of Chris, me in other words, for a mere $101.25 US currency. 2) Colonelcy of the 1st Regiment of PBI, $55.55 US currency. 3) Majority of the 1st Regiment of PBI, $31.31 US currency. If interested, please contact me. Hmmmm??

Do we get a uniform with that deal?

< Message edited by ABridgeTooFar -- 1/17/2007 7:53:27 PM >

(in reply to christof139)

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RE: Is there any reason not to plunder? - 1/19/2007 6:47:07 AM

christof139

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PS: I have employment openings in the Republic of hris for the following positions: 1) Minister of Economics, position may be purchased from the Head of State of the Republic of Chris, me in other words, for a mere $101.25 US currency. 2) Colonelcy of the 1st Regiment of PBI, $55.55 US currency. 3) Majority of the 1st Regiment of PBI, $31.31 US currency. If interested, please contact me. Hmmmm?? Chris

A bridge too Far: Do we get a uniform with that deal?

I hadn't thought of that yet!! Yes, you do, now that you thought of it and reminded me to think of it!!!

Brilliant idea!!! If I must say so myself.

Chris

(in reply to ABridgeTooFar)

Post #: 17

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> Is there any reason not to plunder?

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