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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Problem with AB map!

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Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 4:02:40 PM

hawker

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We have problems with AB map,Dan Stafford and myself play a grand campaign with Andrew map version 6,we are 15 days into scenario and everything goes fine.
Last night Dan sent me e-mail,i will attach e-mail and picture,please help.

Attached is a jpeg of an Aussie unit at Darwin. It is trying to move to Townsville. Note the "distance Traveled". It is still in the Darwin base hex.

Something is wrong..

I also have some units in China that won't move.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 4:10:45 PM

hawker

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Look at distance traveled,Dan claims that unit never left Darwin.
When i play with GH we never have such situation

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 4:31:41 PM

Andrew Brown

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hawker
Something is wrong..

If there is a map problem, you should both check your map data to ensure it is correct for the map you are using. Details are in the FAQ page of the map documentation.

Andrew

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 4:36:00 PM

castor troy

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Set the unit to defend and then set the target again. I�ve seen that on the stock map also often enough...

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 4:50:21 PM

rtrapasso

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This can also happen if the unit did not start at Darwin, but is passing through.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 5:30:27 PM

ckk

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I have seen this more with AB's map(which is all I use) I thought that it was because AB has made the paths between Darwin Derby and Townsvillle into trails which require
incredible times to traverse. So any movement between Darwin and Townsville must be accomplished by ship.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 6:01:14 PM

mc3744

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I've been using AB map like forever and I never knew that you could march from Darwin to Townsville!

Shouldn't you go to Alice Springs first?

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 6:24:40 PM

hawker

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Thank you all very much.
Well,i think that Dan should solve this now using your help.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 9:33:35 PM

dpstafford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Set the unit to defend and then set the target again. I�ve seen that on the stock map also often enough...

I have never seen this on the stock map. But I will try your suggestion.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 9:38:57 PM

dpstafford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ckk
I have seen this more with AB's map(which is all I use) I thought that it was because AB has made the paths between Darwin Derby and Townsvillle into trails which require
incredible times to traverse. So any movement between Darwin and Townsville must be accomplished by ship.

Yes, I would not be too surprised if the missing rail link was involved in this issue. If movement by ship is required by this map change, then northern Australia cannot be reinforced by Aussie Command units. As that is a restricted command.

Can AB confirm that this is the case?

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 9:48:09 PM

VSWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ckk

I have seen this more with AB's map(which is all I use) I thought that it was because AB has made the paths between Darwin Derby and Townsvillle into trails which require
incredible times to traverse. So any movement between Darwin and Townsville must be accomplished by ship.

Why would you want to use the trail between Cloncurry and Tennant Creek? Your units will be much faster if you send them via Adelaide and Alice Springs.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 9:53:24 PM

Reverberate

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.

< Message edited by Reverberate -- 1/11/2007 10:05:34 PM >

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 9:53:53 PM

VSWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

quote:

ORIGINAL: ckk
I have seen this more with AB's map(which is all I use) I thought that it was because AB has made the paths between Darwin Derby and Townsvillle into trails which require
incredible times to traverse. So any movement between Darwin and Townsville must be accomplished by ship.

Yes, I would not be too surprised if the missing rail link was involved in this issue. If movement by ship is required by this map change, then northern Australia cannot be reinforced by Aussie Command units. As that is a restricted command.

Can AB confirm that this is the case?

Try moving them one base at a time (i.e Darwin to Tennant Creek, to Alice Springs, to Whyalla, to Broken Hill, to Brisbane, to Townsville) instead of ordering one huge move across the entire continent. I had no problems moving units to and from northern Oz using this method.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 9:56:55 PM

dpstafford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG
Why would you want to use the trail between Cloncurry and Tennant Creek? Your units will be much faster if you send them via Adelaide and Alice Springs.

I have no idea which route was chosen for the move. I was relying on the pathing routines which generally take into account the road net for land movement.......

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 9:58:15 PM

dpstafford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG
Try moving them one base at a time (i.e Darwin to Tennant Creek, to Alice Springs, to Whyalla, to Broken Hill, to Brisbane, to Townsville) instead of ordering one huge move across the entire continent. I had no problems moving units to and from northern Oz using this method.

Very well. I'll give it a try.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 10:01:10 PM

VSWG

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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG
Why would you want to use the trail between Cloncurry and Tennant Creek? Your units will be much faster if you send them via Adelaide and Alice Springs.

Quite frankly, I have no idea which route the units chose. I was relying on the pathing routines . Which for land movement (as opposed to sea movement) have generally been reliable.

1. Units will choose the route with the shortest supply path. To calculate the supply path, use the following numbers:

Rail/Highway: 2
Road: 5
Trail: 25
Cross Country: 50

2. Along this supply path, units will move with the following (maximum) speeds:

For details, see p. 149/150 of the manual.

< Message edited by VSWG -- 1/11/2007 10:13:55 PM >

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 10:02:12 PM

hawker

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Your troops are doomed anyway

.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 10:09:57 PM

Andrew Brown

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG
Try moving them one base at a time (i.e Darwin to Tennant Creek, to Alice Springs, to Whyalla, to Broken Hill, to Brisbane, to Townsville) instead of ordering one huge move across the entire continent.

That is my suggestion as well.

Andrew

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 10:10:35 PM

dpstafford

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Thanks for the WITP 101 class.

So, why wouldn't the shortest supply path also be the fastest movement route?

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/11/2007 10:23:01 PM

VSWG

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Because the differences between hex types in both tables aren't identical. A RR hex is 25x better than a mountain hex when the supply path is calculated (2 instead of 50), but 30x times better for movement rates (90 instead of 3).

Example: You want to move unit A to base B. The hex unit A is in is 2 two (cross country) mountain hexes away from base B. Alternatively, the unit could make a huge detour and use a rail line that is 51 hexes long.
The AI will send the unit cross country (supply path value of 100 instead of 102 for the rail line). However, at maximum speed the unit will need 40 days for those 120 miles. If the unit would use the rail line, it would arrive in 34 days (3040 miles, 90 miles per day) at base B.

< Message edited by VSWG -- 1/11/2007 10:34:51 PM >

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/12/2007 12:39:56 AM

ckk

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Andrew

Ran a test from 5/7 to 6/8 1942.32 days, the 23rd Brigade did move to Tennant Creek So I guess problem solved take it one step at a time

But I like to concentrate the northern Oz BF's at Darwin.

Same time period:
Broome to Darwin 840 miles Miles traveled Start 40 Finish 30

Derby to Wyndham 360 Miles miles traveled Start 0 Finish 50
Windham to Darwin 360 Miles miles traveled Start 30 Finish 15

Seems a little a long and in 2 cases backward? BTW I'm using the latest Nik Mod Not a game buster but

< Message edited by ckk -- 1/12/2007 12:52:07 AM >

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/12/2007 1:09:15 AM

VSWG

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1. The distances are all wrong: Broome to Darwin along the supply path is 21 hexes (1260 miles), Derby to Wyndham and Wyndham to Darwin 11 hexes (660 miles). Apparently the game displays the distances as the crow flies. Weird. Can someone test this in stock?

2. Your unit at Broome will need *under ideal conditions* 218 days to reach Darwin. More likely it will need more than 300 days. Are you sure you want it to walk?

3. I assume that the units from Broome and Wyndham didn't march one hex? Because I always understood "miles traveled" to display the mileage into the next hex, so they would have marched 1 hex + 30 miles resp. 1 hex + 15 miles?

4. 50 miles in 32 days (1.875 miles per day) on a trail is not an impossible result. Remember that 5 miles per day is the maximum movement rate, it will decrease as fatigue and disruption increase and supplies decline.

< Message edited by VSWG -- 1/12/2007 1:21:50 AM >

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/12/2007 1:29:24 AM

Andrew Brown

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG
2. Your unit at Broome will need *under ideal conditions* 218 days to reach Darwin. More likely it will need more than 300 days. Are you sure you want it to walk?

Those trails are too slow to move along. What the game really needs is a "secondary" road type, between the trail and the good roads. This has been on WitP wishlists for quite a while...

Andrew

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/12/2007 1:39:44 AM

VSWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG
2. Your unit at Broome will need *under ideal conditions* 218 days to reach Darwin. More likely it will need more than 300 days. Are you sure you want it to walk?

Those trails are too slow to move along. What the game really needs is a "secondary" road type, between the trail and the good roads. This has been on WitP wishlists for quite a while...

Andrew

You could replace every second trail with a road.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/12/2007 1:44:06 AM

VSWG

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I made a mistake, BTW: engineers move only 4 miles per day on a trail, so the base force at Broome will need at least 272 days to reach Darwin.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/12/2007 1:48:16 AM

ckk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

1. The distances are all wrong: Broome to Darwin along the supply path is 21 hexes (1260 miles), Derby to Wyndham and Wyndham to Darwin 11 hexes (660 miles). Apparently the game displays the distances as the crow flies. Weird. Can someone test this in stock?

2. Your unit at Broome will need *under ideal conditions* 218 days to reach Darwin. More likely it will need more than 300 days. Are you sure you want it to walk?

3. I assume that the units from Broome and Wyndham didn't march one hex? Because I always understood "miles traveled" to display the mileage into the next hex, so they would have marched 1 hex + 30 miles resp. 1 hex + 15 miles?

4. 50 miles in 32 days (1.875 miles per day) on a trail is not an impossible result. Remember that 5 miles per day is the maximum movement rate, it will decrease as fatigue and disruption increase and supplies decline.

1. I used the distances given when the units started

2 I agree with Andrew's comment about needing a new road type

3 No unit except the one to Tennant Creek moved at all.

4 It may not be an impossible result but IIRC I was always able to move the BF's to Darwin on the standard map in a reasonable time. But Andrew's map is so superior I would never change back for this very minor problem

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/12/2007 3:04:40 AM

Halsey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

quote:

ORIGINAL: ckk

I have seen this more with AB's map(which is all I use) I thought that it was because AB has made the paths between Darwin Derby and Townsvillle into trails which require
incredible times to traverse. So any movement between Darwin and Townsville must be accomplished by ship.

Why would you want to use the trail between Cloncurry and Tennant Creek? Your units will be much faster if you send them via Adelaide and Alice Springs.

Yes, this is the way to do it.

I use Broken Hills as the rally point for LCU's moving to Darwin.

On a trail?
Not hardly.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/12/2007 1:30:38 PM

saj42

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

1. The distances are all wrong: Broome to Darwin along the supply path is 21 hexes (1260 miles), Derby to Wyndham and Wyndham to Darwin 11 hexes (660 miles). Apparently the game displays the distances as the crow flies. Weird. Can someone test this in stock?

Its been my experience that the distance shown as displayed on the unit screen is the straight line (as the crow flies). But as we all known the units don't usually move in a straight line.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/13/2007 10:54:33 AM

goodboyladdie

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If you use the W hot key you will see there is no supply route on the trail part. You have to get the unit to where the trail starts and then only give it one or two hex movement orders at a time. Once it has made the journey up the trail use W again and you will see that a supply route has been established. All subsequent units using that route will be able to march straight through. The same thing happens in Alaska. Always check using W.

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RE: Problem with AB map! - 1/13/2007 11:33:54 AM

goodboyladdie

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Some Chinese units are fixed units and cannot move until they have been forced to retreat. It simulates the politics I believe, as some areas were controlled by warlords with private armies and the central command was not flexible in releasing artillery to local control.

The map issue occurs in stock if you give a unit in India/Burma orders for hex deep in China. The unit will stall in one hex if you do not keep an eye on it. It is always best to give them interim objectives while planning for the final destination. I always find in stock that 2nd Aus Cav Div will not take direct orders for Broome or Derby so you have to use an interim move for that too.

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