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Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/14/2007 3:24:35 AM

KG Erwin

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Here's a screenshot from "Talvisota". This guy just toasted a Russkie tank with a Molotov, and is now scurrying away. "We don't need any stinkin' anti-tank guns!" Gonads of steel -- I love it

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RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/14/2007 4:07:51 PM

Korpraali V

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You have seen the light

You have subtitles for Talvisota-video?

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RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/14/2007 10:01:32 PM

Kuokkanen

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...and what they say on Depot about movies and reality?

You better get some books too. Recommendation goes for Unknown soldier. It's best warbook from here (or so I've been told), and movie based on that book is shown every independence day (original black & white version, though color one is nice too).

Word about AT teams with satchel charges and Molotov's Cocktails: I've read from some book (Lapin kuolemankolonnat) that some of those guys are behind MLR in digged holes. When tanks break through MLR, it's their duty to stop them on their tracks while MLR stops infantry.

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Post #: 3

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/14/2007 11:28:16 PM

KG Erwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Korpraali V

You have seen the light�

You have subtitles for Talvisota-video?

The three clips that I have DO have English subtitles (thankfully).

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Post #: 4

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/14/2007 11:30:26 PM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

...and what they say on Depot about movies and reality?

You better get some books too. Recommendation goes for Unknown soldier. It's best warbook from here (or so I've been told), and movie based on that book is shown every independence day (original black & white version, though color one is nice too).

Word about AT teams with satchel charges and Molotov's Cocktails: I've read from some book (Lapin kuolemankolonnat) that some of those guys are behind MLR in digged holes. When tanks break through MLR, it's their duty to stop them on their tracks while MLR stops infantry.

I understand what you're saying, Matti. BTW, I added this site : http://www.winterwar.com/ to my favorites folder.

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Post #: 5

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 1:41:02 AM

FlashfyreSP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

...and what they say on Depot about movies and reality?

You better get some books too. Recommendation goes for Unknown soldier. It's best warbook from here (or so I've been told), and movie based on that book is shown every independence day (original black & white version, though color one is nice too).

Word about AT teams with satchel charges and Molotov's Cocktails: I've read from some book (Lapin kuolemankolonnat) that some of those guys are behind MLR in digged holes. When tanks break through MLR, it's their duty to stop them on their tracks while MLR stops infantry.

Excuse me? What I said on the Depot about movies can also be said here: movies are movies, not reality. Filmakers are not obligated to tell the actual story; they often take license with a story to increase it's entertainment value. Even books can suffer from this.

You seem to be suffering the same "hero worship" that comes from learning your history through movies, instead of legitimate works by respected authors, historians, and archivists. Documentary films from the period are one thing; watching the latest "blockbuster" and assuming it to be entirely factual is naive in the extreme. While they may encourage viewers to further explore the event, they shouldn't be used as the "definitive" record of that event.

Many war movies are shown here in the States during holiday periods; none of them are documentaries, and most of them have "played fast and loose" with the truth in order to be more "dramatic". As if there isn't drama in the actions of real soldiers...

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RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 1:53:20 AM

KG Erwin

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Right -- you gotta remember that John Wayne was NOT at the Alamo, but Billy Bob Thornton WAS (and he played a mean fiddle, too). Even Hollywood can't agree on what the REAL made-up story was. So, there ya go...

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Post #: 7

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 4:30:50 AM

Alby

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Right -- you gotta remember that John Wayne was NOT at the Alamo, but Billy Bob Thornton WAS (and he played a mean fiddle, too). Even Hollywood can't agree on what the REAL made-up story was. So, there ya go...

LOL....good one...actually Thortons portrayal is most likely much more closer to home as to accurately portraying Crockett, than was the fantasied John Wayne version...
But I digress....

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RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 4:58:48 AM

KG Erwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Right -- you gotta remember that John Wayne was NOT at the Alamo, but Billy Bob Thornton WAS (and he played a mean fiddle, too). Even Hollywood can't agree on what the REAL made-up story was. So, there ya go...

LOL....good one...actually Thortons portrayal is most likely much more closer to home as to accurately portraying Crockett, than was the fantasied John Wayne version...
But I digress....

I just HAD to get a jibe in at ya, Alby, because ---

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Post #: 9

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 9:19:28 AM

Korpraali V

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

The three clips that I have DO have English subtitles (thankfully).

Good for you!

Check also this site

www.jaegerplatoon.net

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Post #: 10

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 3:43:33 PM

shunwick

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Slightly off topic but did the United States declare war on Finland during WWII? I know Britain did.

Best wishes,

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Post #: 11

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 4:09:39 PM

Korpraali V

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Unfortunately US didn't.

< Message edited by Korpraali V -- 1/15/2007 4:21:02 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 5:06:37 PM

SuomiKp

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What is so unfortunate that US didint declare war on us

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Post #: 13

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 5:30:24 PM

Alby

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Korpraali V

Unfortunately US didn't.

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Post #: 14

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 5:34:31 PM

Korpraali V

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Some of the researches have said that there would have been no real action between these countries, excluding few ships being interned with their crews. That was the case with Commonwealth countries and would have been with US too. I believe that, since there would have been no interest on either side to commit any real hostilities.

BUT another thing would have been that the The Allied Control Commission (ACC) in Finland after the war from 1944 to 1947 (Paris peace treaty) would have contained more members favouring Finns over Soviet. Now ACC consisted 200 Soviet members and 15 British ones.

So, Yanks, you really could have done us a favour...

< Message edited by Korpraali V -- 1/15/2007 5:46:53 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 6:50:09 PM

shunwick

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The poor Americans can't seem to get anything right. They're either going to war against countries that don't want to be molested or not going to war with ones that do. It's a hard life.

Incidently, UK v Finland - the only war there has even been between two democracies.

Best wishes,

< Message edited by shunwick -- 1/15/2007 7:02:52 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 6:58:40 PM

SuomiKp

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Maybe Korpraali ment it was unfortunate that Finns didint have the pleasure to kick some USMC butt

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Post #: 17

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/15/2007 8:18:40 PM

shunwick

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Luckily, I know nothing about the butts of US Marines.

Best wishes,

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Post #: 18

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/16/2007 4:03:57 AM

Korpraali V

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuomiKp

Maybe Korpraali ment it was unfortunate that Finns didint have the pleasure to kick some USMC butt

Read between the lines...

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Post #: 19

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/16/2007 3:04:19 PM

FNG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

The poor Americans can't seem to get anything right. They're either going to war against countries that don't want to be molested or not going to war with ones that do. It's a hard life.

Incidently, UK v Finland - the only war there has even been between two democracies.

Best wishes,

Technically we're not a democracy - we're a constitutional monarchy

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FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

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Post #: 20

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/16/2007 5:27:55 PM

shunwick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FNG

quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

The poor Americans can't seem to get anything right. They're either going to war against countries that don't want to be molested or not going to war with ones that do. It's a hard life.

Incidently, UK v Finland - the only war there has even been between two democracies.

Best wishes,

Technically we're not a democracy - we're a constitutional monarchy

Picky.

Best wishes,

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Post #: 21

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/16/2007 7:18:51 PM

Korpraali V

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FNG

Technically we're not a democracy - we're a constitutional monarchy

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Post #: 22

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/18/2007 12:10:16 PM

sabrejack

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuomiKp

Maybe Korpraali ment it was unfortunate that Finns didint have the pleasure to kick some USMC butt

Alby and I played a Finland v USMC PBEM game a while ago... I seem to remember that my Finns actually did pretty well.

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Post #: 23

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/20/2007 11:32:12 PM

KG Erwin

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Well, I used the German template for a long campaign, but selected a Finnish battalion (reinforced). I started in June 1941, to try out a semi-historical version of the Continuation War.

This isn't gonna work. My first mission was a delay in the Grodno area. The Russkies had what looked to be a freakin tank regiment barreling down on me, augmented by a healthy support force of infantry. I had bought a few 47mm ATG, but basically it was man vs tank. Molotovs and AT mines against a mix of T-28s, T-26s, T-34s and KVs. Once those monsters started over-running my heroic but hopelessly out-matched men, I just said "to hell with it".

I had these visions of the Finns meeting the fate of the Romanians/Hungarians in 1942 during the Stalingrad counteroffensive, and decided that these men shouldn't be sacrificed in Central Russia just to protect the Germans' overextended flanks. Not gonna do it. I respect the Finns too much for that.

The Finns need their own campaign format, starting with the Winter War, an interlude for re-organization, and then the Continuation War. The more I think about it, it could have been an interesting Mega Campaign.

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Post #: 24

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/21/2007 3:44:08 AM

Korpraali V

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Well, I used the German template for a long campaign, but selected a Finnish battalion (reinforced). I started in June 1941, to try out a semi-historical version of the Continuation War.

This isn't gonna work. My first mission was a delay in the Grodno area. The Russkies had what looked to be a freakin tank regiment barreling down on me, augmented by a healthy support force of infantry. I had bought a few 47mm ATG, but basically it was man vs tank. Molotovs and AT mines against a mix of T-28s, T-26s, T-34s and KVs. Once those monsters started over-running my heroic but hopelessly out-matched men, I just said "to hell with it".

I had these visions of the Finns meeting the fate of the Romanians/Hungarians in 1942 during the Stalingrad counteroffensive, and decided that these men shouldn't be sacrificed in Central Russia just to protect the Germans' overextended flanks. Not gonna do it. I respect the Finns too much for that.

One possibility is to restart until you'll get attack or advance missions in the beginning, which would be more historical. The base problem, however, remains. Maps are for German long campaign, so they are much too open and 'unbroken'. Germans weren't trained for fighting in forests while Finns were used to them. Counting that and the norther terrain type Finns were fighting in, maps would need to be quite different. Also Finnish infantry facing masses of tanks isn't quite historical in 1941. I've also tried playing Finnish long campaign (basing on German long campaign) as you probably have already noted, but I ended it up early. Mainly because of the same reasons that you stated. I think I'll try to update couple of Finnish scenarios to FV.1 after finishing my graduation work (probably this month).

(Naturally one possibility would be to follow tracks of Finnish SS-battalion in eastern front...)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
The Finns need their own campaign format, starting with the Winter War, an interlude for re-organization, and then the Continuation War. The more I think about it, it could have been an interesting Mega Campaign.

I'm 100% with you in that!

< Message edited by Korpraali V -- 1/21/2007 3:56:00 AM >

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RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/21/2007 10:55:28 AM

sami heimola

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Hmm Continuation War Mega Campaign... Yes yes yes

!!! I have waited that all these years (since SPWAW was released). But I'm afraid that Matrix has not enough interest to do it anyway

...

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Post #: 26

RE: Yeah, the Finns Are Cool - 1/21/2007 5:41:15 PM

Alby

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sabrejack

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuomiKp

Maybe Korpraali ment it was unfortunate that Finns didint have the pleasure to kick some USMC butt

Alby and I played a Finland v USMC PBEM game a while ago... I seem to remember that my Finns actually did pretty well.