Crazy increase to INTEL points

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Crazy increase to INTEL points

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided >> The War Room >> Crazy increase to INTEL points

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Crazy increase to INTEL points - 1/22/2007 10:35:14 PM

mikemcmann

Posts: 96
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline

Hey all,

Been battering around and idea and using it some in games. As Germany, I spend almost their entire free supply gifts during the first couple turns on buying intel points in spies, SIGNIT, and security. Probably in the neighborhood of 120 supply the first three turns. I keep just enough to do the attacks into TLC, FRANCE and YUGO. Then, italy is usually on Axis and the others and stop with the gifts.

Thoughts on this?

My Security is usually in the 16-20 range, with SIGNIT near that. THe spies I usually keep at around 10 for soviet and 7-9 for allies (even some against Japan for air power).

I have tried to do the math on what I "GET" out of it. For one, I rarely get tech stolen from me. Second, I usually get one or two techs per turn stolen from the Allies usually. Third, I have about 30% of the time a SIGNIT advantage.

Now the tech steals can be quantified easily. The others cannot.

What are your opinions on such heavy investment into Intel? Sorry if it has been discussed before. Still working my mind around AWD. Was a huge O.C.D. geek of WAW, and am getting there with AWD. Just need some more testing...heheh...

Discussion would be appreciated!

Later

Mike

Post #: 1

RE: Crazy increase to INTEL points - 1/22/2007 10:52:38 PM

Uncle_Joe

Posts: 1985
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline

This was debated a few times in the beta. At one point, a limit to how many points could be put into intel per turn was considered. But in the end, it was decided just to let people's experience dictate what is 'reasonable'.

I know a few people tried to 'abuse' intel in the beta but I dont ever recall anyone getting a major advantage out of it. My gut feeling is that you start to see diminish returns after a while. Once enemy spies are whittled down your security isnt doing much (assuming they aren't constantly respending to replace them) and once you are at equal or greater tech, your spies wont be paying off much either. The SIGINT bonus and the actual intel on regions will still be present, but I dont think those alone justify a huge investment.

As Germany, I find that you can never have TOO MUCH supply. Investing 120 into intel is likely going to leave you very weak elsewhere (like repairing all the damage Allied bombers are going to do to your infrastructure). And the conflict with Russia tend to eat up supplies at an alarming rate.

Obviously you can compensate by investing less in research and trading on the tech theft, but that is unreliable at best (even at very high levels of spying) and its certainly much slower going once the tech cap is removed. Somewhere in there is a 'sweet spot' where the intel is hopefully paying off more than the initial investment but that is also determined by how much your opponent is spending. Putting 120 points in is no guarantee of payoff (and actually makes it take far longer to payoff due to the high level investment).

In the end, I think its going to vary from game to game (especially depending upon what your opponent's tendancies are). I personally think 120 is far too much in the early going, but its certainly worth exploring. If your opponent is heavily investing in similar techs and you are stealing all of his work, then it might be paying off pretty well. But usually the Allied early tech increases dont really coincide with the German tech needs (ASW? We dont need no stinkin' ASW....). Russia is usually playing catch-up herself in many areas so Germany doesnt gain to much there either.

It will be interesting to see how things like intel play out as the tournament advances. Usually that is where you get your best 'competitive' feedback.

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(in reply to mikemcmann)

Post #: 2

RE: Crazy increase to INTEL points - 1/23/2007 1:20:06 AM

christian brown

Posts: 1441
Joined: 5/18/2006
From: Vista, CA
Status: offline

Hmm, I think it is an affordable investment if kept to the first 3 turns..........blocking the Russians from tech steals ( = parity with your own forces qualitatively) is pretty important and the sigint bonus an really come in handy, especially in air to sea fights such as those in the med and later over Britain. Generally speaking, getting the edge in any category (like fighters or CAGs) usually means you are going to keep it for quite a while, I do not believe intel spending is any different.

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"Those who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither and will lose both."
~ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to Uncle_Joe)

Post #: 3

RE: Crazy increase to INTEL points - 1/23/2007 5:59:37 PM

Avatar47

Posts: 162
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline

Very well said Uncle Joe, and good point christian. IMO, I find spying relatively unreliable, even with a large investment. That doesn't mean it's useless, it's just that I find it random. Well I don't like too much randomness when I'm trying to decide where to spend upwards of 20-25 production points into supply/spying, especially perhaps as Germany/WAllies early on. I'm always able to find 50 different ways to spend supply other than spying. If anything, a little might be necessary, especially as Russia. Russia has the most to gain or the most to lose over a tech difference with Germany, and a few key point gains can give Russia a very nice boost in defence, the same with a vice-versa. Germany should probably look to getting up her security a few points. I say only a few points because I feel Russia just doesn't, and shouldn't, have the capacity to produce much supply until later on. I see the supply Germany just simply saves early on as a wonderful stockpile to an early Barba. You additionally wouldn't have to produce as much supply before kickoff because of said stockpile, so you could for instance concentrate on producing more panzers/inf, again narrowing the strategy, defeating Russia.

I'm not saying spying is bad, there are possibilities, and a potential 'sweet spot' as Uncle Joe said, I just think that if you're going for a specific strategy, i feel you're best off seeking to narrow the focus of your builds/techs/supply to whatever your strategy might be. Besides, spying becomes somewhat mediocre once the caps are released, which makes previous bad spying rolls a bit compounded perhaps.

(in reply to christian brown)

Post #: 4

RE: Crazy increase to INTEL points - 1/23/2007 8:23:34 PM

mikemcmann

Posts: 96
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline

I see what you are all saying. Interesting.

I have done some analysis in my head (that is scary!) and in my opinion, and the way I play, is that supply that sits and is not consumed is wasted each turn. I play to the wall when it comes to supply. At the end of each turn (prior to production) I am usually sitting at just enough supply to defend key areas and keep down partisans. That means maybe twenty across the board as Germany. To me, if you have piles and piles of supply, you are not efficiently utilizing your PPs. Supply does NOTHING sitting. Supply as INTEL points, does something. As Germany, I pretty much dont produce supply until a turn after France falls. All I need comes from the partners gifts.

Anyway, I tend to play on the thin line of destruction or victory either way. I was just curious what others do.

Thanks for comments!

Mike

(in reply to Avatar47)

Post #: 5