Shannon V. OKeets
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Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Froonp
quote:
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Are alignment and DOW done simultaneously or sequentially?
Right now the program presents a list of countries that a major power can align and a second list that he can DOW on. It is up to the player to decide which to do first. Once a major power has decided on both, then another major power on the same side gets to decide on DOW and aligning countries.
How much latitude should the players have in determining the order in which these decisions are made? Does the CW know the results of the US DOW attempt(s) before making his decisions? Should one major power be allowed to align a country, then wait to see how another major power on the same side makes out in aligning a country before deciding about DOW? The reason this comes up is that both DOW and alignments can affect US Entry levels so the order can have significant effects.
I have no personal preference/bias here. I just want to code it so it executes correctly (in accordance with RAW).
Relevant rule is 9.
DoWs must be made before Alignements, because they are 2 different paragraphs in RAW, and that RAW is written in sequence of play order (See 1.1 -- things written before other things, are done in that order). DoWs are described in 9.2, 9.3, 9.4 (US), 9.5 (Neutrality Pacts), 9.6 (reserves), 9.7. Aligning countries is described in 9.8, with only 1 alignement per major power.
So :
1) DoWs are announced (9.2). First are announced all DoWs against Major Powers (9.2), then all DoWs against Minor Countries (9.2).
2) All US Entry rolls for all DoWs are made (9.2).
3) USA makes its DoW (9.4).
4) Breaking of Neutrality pacts and ensuying DoWs (9.5).
5) Reserves are called for eligible countries (9.6).
6) Control of minor countries is decided, and its armed forces are set up (9.7).
7) Minors are aligned, maximum 1 per major power per DoW phase (9.8).
In step 1), I think that all DoW are announced (selected in dialog boxes), not secretly. As players don't know the US entry result of each other's DoWs, as they are made in step 2), I see no problem in having all DoW being coordinated between major powers on the same side. That is, if the CW check the box to DoW Persia for example, and that the Russian player make this too thereafter, all players should have the opportunity to review each others' DoWs and decide to not make some of their DoWs that they do not wish to make anymore now that they know that their ally will make it too.
Except US DoW who are clearly announced in step 3) of my list, that is after all doWs have been announced and rolled for, but before Neutrality pact are checked to be broken and ensuying DoWs made.
Same for alignements, I think that they can be coordinated between players. A player should be able to review all of his allies alignements and still decide on his own alignements in consequence.
I've written to Harry a while back (october 2006) about whether US DoWs results were known for other countries DoWs, and here is what he answered :
*****************************
Gidday Patrice,
Good question, the way we play (I think) is that we don't know the results of the US entry rolls before we make our declarations of war.
Regards
Harry
> The question is :
>
> If the Neutral USA are amongst the countries declaring their wars, do the
> other Major Power "know" the result of the USA attempt to declare war
> before announcing their declaration of war, or not ?
*****************************
You can ask him again because this answer ("the way we play (I think) is that") may seems not very firm, but the RAW seems to support what he says.
Like ships in the night, our posts crossed over pitch-black sea.
I follow your logic but propose changing the label for your 4th step to: US rolls for attempted DOWs against Germany/Italy/Japan. That the US is going to make an attempt to DOW on one of the Axis major powers is done in step 1.
What I envision here are two different, but similar forms for Aligning countries and DOW. The form consists of a matrix with the phasing side's major powers as the columns and the target DOW/Align countries as the rows. Some of the cells will be blank (possible) some will be black (impossible). For example, the US might be able to DOW on Germany, but the CW can't because they are already at war.
On the side are check boxes for each major power on the phasing side: Proposed and Final. By clicking Proposed the MP lets other MPs review and enter their selections. By clicking Final, the MP says his decisions are final. Once all MPs have Final checked, the 1st step is complete.
At that point the program can performed steps 2 -> 4 by itself and only come back to the players for decisions if step 5 (reserves) or 6 (minors) require setting up units.
Aligning countries would proceed in the same manner.
_____________________________
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
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Rules Clarification List - 
) might shorten the list to a few tens. 
. 
Sounds nasty. 
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