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62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 12:59:36 PM   
captskillet


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January 26, 1945

Audie Murphy wounded

On this day, the most decorated man of the war, American Lt. Audie Murphy, is wounded in France.

Born the son of Texas sharecroppers on June 20, 1924, Murphy served three years of active duty, beginning as a private, rising to the rank of staff sergeant, and finally winning a battlefield commission to 2nd lieutenant. He was wounded three times, fought in nine major campaigns across Europe, and was credited with killing 241 Germans. He won 37 medals and decorations, including the Distinguished Service Cross, the Silver Star (with oak leaf cluster), the Legion of Merit, and the Croix de Guerre (with palm).

The battle that won Murphy the Medal of Honor, and which ended his active duty, occurred during the last stages of the Allied victory over the Germans in France. Murphy acted as cover for infantrymen during a last desperate German tank attack. Climbing atop an abandoned U.S. tank destroyer, he took control of its .50-caliber machine gun and killed 50 Germans, stopping the advance but suffering a leg wound in the process.

Upon returning to the States, Murphy was invited to Hollywood by Jimmy Cagney, who saw the war hero's picture on the cover of Life magazine. By 1950, Murphy won an acting contract with Universal Pictures. In his most famous role, he played himself in the monumentally successful To Hell and Back.

Perhaps as interesting as his film career was his public admission that he suffered severe depression from post traumatic stress syndrome, also called battle fatigue, and became addicted to sleeping pills as a result. This had long been a taboo subject for veterans. Murphy died in a plane crash while on a business trip in 1971. He was 46.


< Message edited by captskillet -- 1/29/2007 11:43:19 PM >


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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 2:29:00 PM   
frank1970


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Sorry, but he is only the highest decorated American.
In other armies there were other men, who were decorated by their countries.

Compared to some German soldiers this guy does not look so impressive.
Eg Rudel, Hartmann,
Georg Wirth: destroyed 16 Soviettanks in one battle


http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.de/RK-inhalt-Seite.htm

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 2:57:09 PM   
Terminus


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He certainly DOES look impressive... And nobody said he was the highest decorated soldier of all the powers fighting in WWII; that honour probably goes to either a German or a Soviet soldier (they loved their shiny pieces of metal).

But Murphy was a real hero, nonetheless, and saying he isn't impressive is narrow-minded and shortsighted...

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 3:18:26 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Indeedy.....Stalin got 2 x Hero of the Soviet Union stars!

He even rejected the 'honour' the 2nd time.....for a couple of days before he gave into Poskrebyshev

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 3:53:47 PM   
kilowatts


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quote:

ORIGINAL: captskillet
...
Climbing atop an abandoned U.S. tank destroyer, he took control of its .50-caliber machine gun and killed 50 Germans, stopping the advance but suffering a leg wound in the process.


a burning abandoned U.S. tank destroyer

edit: I looked it up, the MoH citation states that the tank destroyer was on fire.

< Message edited by kilowatts -- 1/26/2007 4:50:32 PM >

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 4:00:14 PM   
Przemcio231


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Well The US Guy got all those medals for fighting the ones that started the War and commited numerous war crimes and genocide in the procces and well those medal's recived by the ones only responsible for starting the war and guilty of war crimes and genocide are worth nothing... that's my opinion any way is this confirmed that he was able to shoot so many Germans?? i find it hard to belive...

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 4:13:52 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

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Not certain about the rest, but those last 50 were probably confirmed. It's not hard to pick out the body of anyone who's been on the losing end of an arguement with "Ma Deuce".

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 4:35:19 PM   
castor troy


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Those Germans must have been drunk or just dumb it seems. What kind of attack was that? A WWI style attack? Just run into the fire of your enemy, he can´t hurt you! Go go go!

If there were 50 killed there were probably another 150 wounded. For me it´s also a bit too many to believe for one fight (like the 241 overall). Like Rambo alone against a soviet brigade. Didn´t know the US did body counts and the single soldiers got "kills" like fighter pilots. How does someone do that? E.g. a fight 200 against 200 with 50 killed on both sides. Who get´s the kills? Do they examine the bodies and look at the bullets with the number of different soldiers on them?

Of course it would be easy to tell if someone throws a grenade into a closed room and kills the five in there, but normally...

I think every nation needs their heroes, although normally I only hear about guys that killed xy number of planes, tanks...

Not to doubt the story nor do I want to offense someone but that story just sounds more like a Silvester Stallone film scene and following the words of my grandfather (who served in the German Army as a tank commander through the whole war until 44 when he was wounded) then I would cut the kills of this guy down to a quarter. So he would have been able to fend off this attack while killing perhaps 12, instead of 50 (which would be heroic also).

Just as a side note, my grandfather´s tank (better say tanks, as they changed through the years) would have been accounted for killing dozens of troops, guns, trucks and 2!!! tanks (tank vs. tank battles didn´t happen as often as someone might think) and the highest decoration was the the "normal" Iron Cross class I after getting the Iron Cross II and a medal for being wounded. It seems it wasn´t normal for the Germans to account soldiers for kills as he never told me like: "I (or the tank) killed 58 soldiers, destroyed 8 paks, ...." but he told me his tank was accounted for killing 2 tanks.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 4:47:59 PM   
rtrapasso


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i dunno - it could be all sort of some hype, but still - i've heard (witnessed) accounts in the PTO where one guy would routinely take on a company of Japanese troops - and win. And apparently he did it repeatedly. Curiously, iirc, he never got a medal, but he would also refuse to be put up for medals (he said something to the effect of "I can get all the medals I want off dead Japanese."

He could do this because of two things (i think): 1) most soldiers in combat never fire their weapons, and 2) he seemed to be completely insane. His tactics were WAY out of normal, and the Japanese were completely confused by them.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 5:31:03 PM   
kilowatts


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Here's the full citation, yarked from this article on Wikipedia...

quote:

Second Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by six tanks and waves of infantry. Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to prepared positions in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, one of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire, which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to German fire from three sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued his single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way back to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.


Frontal, WWI style, attacks were much more common than you might think in WWII. After all, to the guy at the sharp end every attack is a frontal attack - there is only one way to cross an open field. The germans did try to infiltrate along ditches but a .50 cal is more than heavy enough to shoot through ditch banks and the weapon would outrange any squad weapons the Germans had. As to whether Murphy killed all those German soldiers; well make your own mind up but here's the facts...

There were two TD's present at the start of the action, both were quickly knocked out. One by the enemy tanks (that's the one who's gun Murphy used), the other ran into a ditch. The second tank apparently did use it's MGs to shoot up the enemy before it crashed.

Murphy had been elevated to company commander the previous night. That's because he was the only officer left in the company after the previous days action which had reduced the company to 19 effectives (Murphy included). Murphy ordered the rest of the company (the other 18 guys) back after the TD's were knocked out.

Then he basically held off the Germans for an hour by himself.

The defensive part of the action concluded when fighters appeared. Murphy had the artillery drop smoke to mark the target for them.



< Message edited by kilowatts -- 1/26/2007 5:44:18 PM >

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/26/2007 7:43:50 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

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"Frontal, WWI style, attacks were much more common than you might think in WWII. After all, to the guy at the sharp end every attack is a frontal attack - there is only one way to cross an open field. The germans did try to infiltrate along ditches but a .50 cal is more than heavy enough to shoot through ditch banks and the weapon would outrange any squad weapons the Germans had. As to whether Murphy killed all those German soldiers; well make your own mind up but here's the facts... "



Also remember that during the last year of the war the Germans fielded a lot of very under-trained VolksGrenadier Divisions. There are numerous accounts of them attacking literally shoulder-to-shoulder during the early days of the Bulge fighting---and suffering horrendous casualties doing so.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 2:13:53 AM   
Tiornu

 

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quote:

By 1950, Murphy won an acting contract with Universal Pictures.

During a movie shoot, a director became frustrated with Murphy's "acting." Murphy responded, "You have to remember, I'm working with a handicap."
The director, aware of Murphy's war record, said, "I'm sorry. What exactly is your handicap?"
Murphy answered, "Lack of talent."

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 4:11:06 AM   
Big B

 

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Incredible things do happen, .. that's why they are incredible. The CMH doesn't get handed out lightly (especially in those days - say no more), and it requires a lot of collaboration by eye witnesses. There is (was) a time limit on application for the decoration, and it must be applied for by the awardees' superiors - not the awardee.

I can understand, with an international, and 60+ year removed audience, the skepticism. But Audie Murphy was the Real-Deal.

His outfit - the 3rd Div, was in more combat than any other Amercian unit in all of WWII, and he was with them from the beginning... North Africa. Most of the men he started the war with were dead, or badly wounded and gone for good, by the time he fought the action in question.

I can also tell you that Browning .50s don't cause wounds - they cause what the military calls "traumatic amputation", so survival from a hit by an HBM2 is not likely. It's the only weapon I have fired or been around that you hear the round ripping through the air as it passes by - pretty nasty.

Anyway, Audie Murphy was one of those few individuals (that most nations produce in small numbers) that can wear the tag of "Hero" without being a creation of "wartime press", and you don't get to be the highest decorated soldier of your country (any country) without having done the deeds attributed to you. Too much scrutiny.

My 2c

B

< Message edited by Big B -- 1/27/2007 5:31:15 PM >

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 12:53:19 PM   
Andy_PZ


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What if he surprised the German Infantry , if he was on the blindside of the tank destroyer and they didnt realise he was there....up he hops and feeds them some .50 cal....they wouldnt know what day it was...

just a thought.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 1:15:02 PM   
goodwoodrw


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hey where are all those noisey mouthed kiwis, how about jumping for one of your own, Charles Upham would have go close to the most decorated allied soldier TWO Victoria Crosses. The only bloke to win the VC twice in active sevice.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 2:08:48 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kilowatts

Here's the full citation, yarked from this article on Wikipedia...

quote:

Second Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by six tanks and waves of infantry. Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to prepared positions in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, one of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire, which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to German fire from three sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued his single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way back to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.


Frontal, WWI style, attacks were much more common than you might think in WWII. After all, to the guy at the sharp end every attack is a frontal attack - there is only one way to cross an open field. The germans did try to infiltrate along ditches but a .50 cal is more than heavy enough to shoot through ditch banks and the weapon would outrange any squad weapons the Germans had. As to whether Murphy killed all those German soldiers; well make your own mind up but here's the facts...

There were two TD's present at the start of the action, both were quickly knocked out. One by the enemy tanks (that's the one who's gun Murphy used), the other ran into a ditch. The second tank apparently did use it's MGs to shoot up the enemy before it crashed.

Murphy had been elevated to company commander the previous night. That's because he was the only officer left in the company after the previous days action which had reduced the company to 19 effectives (Murphy included). Murphy ordered the rest of the company (the other 18 guys) back after the TD's were knocked out.

Then he basically held off the Germans for an hour by himself.

The defensive part of the action concluded when fighters appeared. Murphy had the artillery drop smoke to mark the target for them.





Thanks for the whole story. As I read it it´s more of what I thought of. Killed or wounded were 50. For me that´s a difference, because like I said if there were 50 killed there would have been probably another 150 wounded and that was a bit too many for me. And it´s exactly the number I was thinking about when saying 200 killed OR wounded divided by 4... voila...

Not to mention the artillery fire... Killing 50 and wounding another 150 with a single .50 alone on a tank without any support was the thing that was "too much" for me. As said, the man was a hero, no doubt, but to read how the fight really was is a difference to the first post about it.


< Message edited by castor troy -- 1/27/2007 2:24:47 PM >

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 2:10:08 PM   
Przemcio231


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Well here is a picture of a place near me there is story that one of AK soldiers who didn't heard the order to fall back was left in the building i marked with red and he alone armed with SMG and a coupple of Granades stoped a german company from taking the building and forced them to fall back... well this could be probable as they were comeing from the left on the picture through open ground...

Wops wrong pic will post the good one soon:)





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Przemcio231 -- 1/27/2007 2:46:07 PM >


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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 2:14:24 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Well here is a picture of a place near me there is story that one of AK soldiers who didn't heard the order to fall back was left in the building i marked with red and he alone armed with SMG and a coupple of Granades stoped a german company from taking the building and forced them to fall back... well this could be probable as they were comeing from the left on the picture through open ground...

Wops wrong pic will post the good one soon:)




Stop playing around with the pictures and get me a turn back. Seen the huge allied flak??? 40+ Helens lost that attacked at 16000... oh man...

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 2:34:41 PM   
Przemcio231


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What are you saying 17 Helend were shoot down...

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 2:54:18 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

What are you saying 17 Helend were shoot down...



and the op losses???

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 3:34:54 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Being a member of the Royal Canadian Legion I've had the honour to have met many decorated vets from WW2 and Korea and one thing that strikes me is that Commonwealth military personnel rarely win medals compared to US personnel. Just look at the rows upon rows of decorations on US personnel, many of whom have not even seen combat. I went on a military exercise in Grayling, Michigan in 82 and basically everybody in the US units, regardless of rank, had some. More like the Cub/Eagle Scouts achievement badges than medals. The rows upon rows of medals on some guys rival some of the banana republics.

No offence but it strikes me as somewhat excessive.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 7:09:11 PM   
Artmiser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Sorry, but he is only the highest decorated American.
In other armies there were other men, who were decorated by their countries.

Compared to some German soldiers this guy does not look so impressive.
Eg Rudel, Hartmann,
Georg Wirth: destroyed 16 Soviettanks in one battle


http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.de/RK-inhalt-Seite.htm



Frank he was a pilot, I believe that was a mission flying one of the JU87 tank destroyers. And while that was a good mission I dont think it is a good comparison to Murphys action. Standing on a burning tank that could blow up at any time using the MG on top to stop a Infantry company on you own, VS flying a stuka through some flak to blow up a colum of tanks. While both brave they are not in the same class.

Here is one I found, use him next time.

Dr. Franz Bake - Bake joined the military during World War 1 and served as a corporal. After the war he went to dental school. At the outbreak of WWII he was commissioned as a Lt, and soon was promoted and became a company commander. He was an extremely competent leader and in one battle his regiment was credited with destroying 267 soviet tanks, while losing only 5 of his (3 to mechanical failure). He was personally responsible for destroying 79 tanks and 102 anti-tank guns. On his sleeve there are 3 "tank destruction" badges, signifying that he had destroyed 3 tanks individually using only hand-held weapons. Bake was awarded the Swords to his Knights Cross and the Gold Wound Badge. As commander of his own tank, he personally destroyed 97 enemy tanks plus 198 miscellaneous vehicles and anti-tank guns.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Artmiser -- 1/27/2007 7:43:10 PM >


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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 8:27:50 PM   
Terminus


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Rudel was the Stuka pilot, Wirth was a Feldwebel in charge of a battery of AT guns in the 17th Infantry Division; the action with the 16 Soviet tanks took place at Kursk and won him the Knight's Cross.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 8:34:44 PM   
Artmiser


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Gotcha, Still like Doc though.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 8:37:30 PM   
Terminus


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Me too... "Der Panzergraf", von Strachwitz, is another...

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 8:43:18 PM   
Artmiser


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I guess what I Was trying to say is that every army had thier heroes, I would not try and put one over the other.  The circumstance for each are different.

< Message edited by Artmiser -- 1/27/2007 8:55:02 PM >


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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 8:43:38 PM   
Terminus


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Amen...

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 9:29:33 PM   
RevRick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i dunno - it could be all sort of some hype, but still - i've heard (witnessed) accounts in the PTO where one guy would routinely take on a company of Japanese troops - and win. And apparently he did it repeatedly. Curiously, iirc, he never got a medal, but he would also refuse to be put up for medals (he said something to the effect of "I can get all the medals I want off dead Japanese."

He could do this because of two things (i think): 1) most soldiers in combat never fire their weapons, and 2) he seemed to be completely insane. His tactics were WAY out of normal, and the Japanese were completely confused by them.


Sounds like John Basilone - from Guadalcanal... read about him sometime.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/27/2007 9:56:16 PM   
ctangus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i dunno - it could be all sort of some hype, but still - i've heard (witnessed) accounts in the PTO where one guy would routinely take on a company of Japanese troops - and win. And apparently he did it repeatedly. Curiously, iirc, he never got a medal, but he would also refuse to be put up for medals (he said something to the effect of "I can get all the medals I want off dead Japanese."

He could do this because of two things (i think): 1) most soldiers in combat never fire their weapons, and 2) he seemed to be completely insane. His tactics were WAY out of normal, and the Japanese were completely confused by them.


Sounds like John Basilone - from Guadalcanal... read about him sometime.


"Manila John" got the CMH though - might be another guy.

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RE: 62 Years ago today........... - 1/28/2007 9:28:32 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ctangus

quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i dunno - it could be all sort of some hype, but still - i've heard (witnessed) accounts in the PTO where one guy would routinely take on a company of Japanese troops - and win. And apparently he did it repeatedly. Curiously, iirc, he never got a medal, but he would also refuse to be put up for medals (he said something to the effect of "I can get all the medals I want off dead Japanese."

He could do this because of two things (i think): 1) most soldiers in combat never fire their weapons, and 2) he seemed to be completely insane. His tactics were WAY out of normal, and the Japanese were completely confused by them.


Sounds like John Basilone - from Guadalcanal... read about him sometime.


"Manila John" got the CMH though - might be another guy.


Don't recall the guy's name, but he went through the war in obscurity, and was even in the "doghouse" a lot - he was said to present a strange tableu being on KP duty a lot - and he would be sitting there scrubbing pots wearing a chest full of Japanese medals (iirc, he was partial to The Order of the Chrysanthumum).

His tactics were extremely ammo intensive, and he often resorted to using captured weapons and ammo (which almost got him killed one time when an unfamiliar enemy weapon jammed). He was always trying to scrounge ammo, and found he could trade captured "souvenirs" to other guys for ammo. Once, he was lugging around a captured Nambu light MG which was considered a "prize" souvenir, and some tank guy stumbled upon him and really wanted it, so he asked the private (iirc) what he wanted for it. The guy thought for a second, and told him he wanted every round of ammo in the tank (not sure if it was just small arms stuff or included artillery-type rounds). Anyway, it turned out to be 500 rounds, and he made that the "going" price for a Nambu light.

Unfortunately, i read the (library) book (more than once) about 40 years ago - it was called "War is a Private Affair" - (author: Love) out of print for about 47 years, but still available from Amazon. It talked about exploits of privates (iirc) mainly in the Pacific theater, and was at turns quite funny, quite sad, and quite horifying.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/28/2007 9:41:48 AM >

(in reply to ctangus)
Post #: 30
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