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Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 1/30/2007 11:34:46 AM   
fcam1387

 

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I am curious to hear how some of the more experienced players use the Japanese Navy later on in the war.

It seems suicide to go head to head with large American aircombat TFs given the fact that you generally have fewer carriers, poorer quality planes and pilots but maybe going after smaller CVE or even CV taskforces and invasion fleets makes sense... Is it advisable to go into deep-ocean raids to try to disrupt convoy lines? Or what about ganging up on the British fleet? Also, how do you utilize the sizable surface fleet you have? I remember hearing that fleet-in-being is just about the only strategy the Japs can use at this point...

I just started 1943 pbem campaign and right now the Japs don't have much to work with so I'm currently considering all options.


< Message edited by fcam1387 -- 1/30/2007 11:49:25 AM >
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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 1/30/2007 12:52:14 PM   
Ian R

 

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4 British CVs with upgraded capacity to account for deckparking, 2/3s full of F4Us. And even if you hit them the deck armour blunts the effect.

Not such a great idea.

4 British unarmoured CVLs with a lot less whispering (or was it whistling/) death floating about... much better idea.

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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 4:26:04 AM   
fcam1387

 

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No tips, guys?

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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 6:06:44 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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Suppuku

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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 7:26:16 AM   
Q-Ball


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I don't have any ideas from experience, because I haven't gotten that far, but it seems to me a good use of a CV TF might be to slip a task force between Pearl and San Fran. I can't see it being found before bombs are falling on the Allied TF. Even that isn't going to be decisive, but it's better than getting creamed by a bunch of Essexes, and will force your opponent to not take that sealane for granted.

I would think surface ships would still be effective as a quick counter to invasions, but when I get to mid-'43 I'll be looking to use them pretty quick, because later on, I think it's going to be hopeless anyway. If I'm the Allies late, I just park old BB's in the invasion hex, and aircover them with the 500 Hellcats I have at my disposal. It seems to me you might as well be aggressive, because by '45 they'll just be targets anyway.

From reading AAR's, the only other thing I gleaned is to not bother with Naval attacks, unless you have hundreds of aircraft to send in waves; like 200 Franks turn 1 to work off some of the Cap, then 300 bombers/Franks to cause some damage. I would also love to know if that's correct or not, but unless you attack in huge numbers, seems you're just cannon fodder.

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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 8:17:43 AM   
Mike Wood


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Hello...

Well you might try to trick your opponent. Send some carriers in to draw his carriers away and then attack with several big battleship fleets. With luck, you might catch one of his transport or support task forces by surprize.

Good luck...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcam1387

No tips, guys?


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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 8:33:07 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

Well you might try to trick your opponent. Send some carriers in to draw his carriers away and then attack with several big battleship fleets. With luck, you might catch one of his transport or support task forces by surprize.

Good luck...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcam1387

No tips, guys?





You might want to put an aggressive leader in charge so he doesn't bottle out with the support ships in his gunsights

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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 8:39:57 AM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcam1387

No tips, guys?


The best "Late-War Japanese Navy Strategy" is not to have one. That is, win in the early war and then you don't need a late war strategy. Let's face it, if you Don't win early, then you sure aren't going to "win" in any usual sense of the word. Although most of us probably think folks like PzB are "winning" just by "surviving with honor"!!!

Winning early, usually means demoralizing your opponent to the point where he resigns. This is the only way I've ever won (I've only played japanese in PBEM). And this demoralization (in my experience anyway) has always been caused by a unequal carrier exchange.

That being said, if you find your self in the late war (which I have in several games) here are a few pointers ...

(1) Getting the Oil and Resources back is still critical, never stop working on this. I usually try to have a few main routes that I use which are heavily defended. This has the trade-off that the enemy can usually figure out what they are. This in turn drives me to build up new alternates. An early route is like Palembang-Singapore-Siagon-CamRanh Bay, Taan, HongKong (around the north side of Hainan) Pescadores, Shanghai, Sasebo, and then on into the port of debarkation. A second route I might use would be Palembang-Kuching, Jesselton-PuertoPrincessa-SanJose-Bataan-Pescadores-Shanghai-Sasebo. And another alternate Soerabaja-Balikpapan-Tarakan-PuertoPrincessa-Legaspi-Osaka. Use of Sallys and Helens as the ASW aircraft with PG/PC as internal convoy escorts and a few ASW "hunter-killer" groups with as many DD/APD/PC/PG as your house rules allow and some good admirals to prosecute contacts. I've never had an Allied sub commander who wasn't demoralized by the ability of the Japanese to suppress the USN sub campaign (in the game).

(2) Rock/Paper/Scissors ... The triad of KB/Surface Force/Betty&Zero Strike force.

The KB should be massed in one hex, but should be broken up into as many TFs as make sense given the availability of escorts. By this point you will not likely have the ability to defeat a full attack by the USN "death Star" (though if you think you can then build big TFs with BBs in with the CVs). So 2-3 CV/CVL per TF with 2-3 CA and 5+ DD would be pretty much "minimal" and you may not have the ships to do better.

The Surface Force might sometimes be mingled with KB ... even inside the KB TFs ... because BBs are good distractors for attacks when they are in the carrier TFs and they have good flak. But when the opportunity arises, sending in 4 or more TFs of about 8 surface ships each, with good admirals of course, can decimate a poorly protected Allied invasion force. The individual TFs should probably ideally have about 8 ships each, I use 4 big ones and 4 little ones. And make sure the big ones all have the same main gun. Like group your 14" BBs in one force and your 16" BBs in another, etc. Same for cruisers. CA in separate forces from CL. More TFs with good admirals will generate more engagements. More engagements means more chance of destroying whatever is in the hex. House rules might (should) limit the size of TFs smaller than about 8. Especially smaller than 4. If someone comes to the party with 50 TFs of one ship each, I'll be done with that game. But assuming "reasonable sizes are maintained" it is also useful to have the largest TF (one with maybe 16 ships, be a light force with no BB/CA .. with an aggressive admiral, this force might be likely to engage first .. it will thus hopefully engage the most powerful enemy force, cause it to expend ammo and hopefullty set the stage for it to be wiped out by succeeding engagements.

The Betty/Zero force ... by '44 will really be (mostly) the Frances/Zero force. And believe it or not, I still keep some of the old A6M2 around, just because of their range. But these guys are best employed in a area with a good group of medium to large size airbases L4+ ... the bases might be originally occupied by Army fighters ... and the Navy Strike Bomber force, together with its escorting fighters will just transfer in at the right moment.

So, the basic idea is that the enemy will invade somewhere, and your LCU defense will at least be strong enough that you can buy enough time to assemble all of the above and get them to the area while the hex is still contested (once it is not contested the enemy fleet can withdraw .. the enemy fleet is only vulnerable while the hex is still contested). Then you want to keep the combat ships just out of range of the enemy but well within range of your land based strike force. If the enemy is foolish enough to advance towards you, you can throw everything in and probably do some worthwhile damage. Otherwise you dance with the ships and strike with the LBA. Mostly you won't do much. But, by bringing all this stuff to the party (and keeping it intact) you keep the other guy "honest". You don't give him any freebees. You make him do big invasions with lots of preparation and planning and lots of ships, every time. This "cost" is the primary objective. Make him pay. And keep your forces viable. This "strategy" causes the maximum delay. And that is the goal. Cause maximum delay. By '44 that is the best you can do.

(3) Read the PzB/Andy Mac AAR ... it is a living reference for late war Japanese Naval Strategy.

(4) Keep moving troops to the important areas. Unfortunately you have to mostly violate Napoleon's axoim. You have to defend everything, at least in the places that matter. Like in the Marinanas, you might as well build up each Island evenly, if you don't, it will be spotted and the enemy will land on the weak one. Likewise the Bonins. The PzB/Andy Mac game has examples of both.

(5) keep moving supplies to every place the enemy could hit. Use all available means: Barge, Fast trans, Air Trans, single AK/AP, sub trans ... some of them will get stopped, some will get through. Never say "I have enough supply there - I don't need any more" ... the enemy can destroy all the supply in a hex with bombardments pretty quickly. You need to keep moving it in.

(6) Mines. House rules might prevent. But a full court press from the start of the war, might be able to make a big difference. I've never tried it in WITP but I've used it successfully in WPO. To try this, you need to build a pile of MLE (like at least a dozen) from the first turn. Hold onto all your ML. Once the MLE come in. Spread them out into the forward areas with about 4 ML each ... and the build up the minefields. Fields of 3000+ are about the minimum size that will start to make a difference. Fields of 7000+ can probably stop almost any invasion. Especially if supported by a full Rock/Paper/Scissors per the above. Per my experience in WPO I'd say you can build fields of 3000+ at about 4 spots per MLE/ML(x4) grouping. Once they are built, they must be continually resown as they will attrite pretty quickly. So the number of ML will limit the ultimate number and size of the fields you can sustain. You get a number of small (300 to 600 n.m. range) MLs during the war, but not many more long range ones. So, once the enemy figures out what you're doing, he will attempt to disrupt with subs. Thus you'll need to react with a supporting ASW effort in the areas you're mining. Use the same formula as above. Good ASW planes (Sallys and Helens and Dive Bombers are all good .. especially 80+ exp ones, they will actually be able to get hits). And have at least one ASW "Hunter Killer" group around. You'll lose some minelayers, but keep up the resowing for the fields you think are in likely invasion spots. Mines can have a major demoralizing effect on players who weren't prepared to deal with them.

Well, that should be enough to get you started!



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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 10:01:03 AM   
fcam1387

 

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Post # 6: That was the Japanese strategy during the battle of Leyte Gulf!

< Message edited by fcam1387 -- 2/1/2007 10:36:20 AM >

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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 10:48:41 AM   
Mike Wood


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Hello...

I know. Good plan. Badly executed.

Bye...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcam1387

Post # 6: That was the Japanese strategy during the battle of Leyte Gulf!


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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 12:21:24 PM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcam1387

Post # 6: That was the Japanese strategy during the battle of Leyte Gulf!



Shock horror!

< Message edited by Ian R -- 2/1/2007 12:33:47 PM >


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RE: Late-war Japanese Navy strategy - 2/1/2007 12:45:15 PM   
Mike Wood


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thought better

< Message edited by Mike Wood -- 2/1/2007 12:57:56 PM >

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