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Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 2:05:19 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		The Italian campaign I am into right now is the worst bunch of guys I have ever played. The campaign watcher said that my guys are 19% battle ready right at this minute. I have lost over 120 units so far. A company has all but been eliminated. The watcher said that a lot of my units are only 35 exp. Had two that was up to 64 exp but they both have been killed. I am in the 30th turn with no possible way to take any of the forward Objectives. I had all of them then the British rolled in with about 100 tanks and started killin everything in sight and retook all of the VH. If I can get half repaired after this battle I will try and get defense battles for the next three turns so as to get some exp for them so they can at least hit what they are lookin at.

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Post #: 1
RE: Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 2:51:41 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Sick him Mau!!



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Post #: 2
RE: Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 3:36:35 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Now, wait. Alby, you provided the updated mech.exe chart for national experience levels, right? The Italians got a shot of viagrazzini in that one.

Robot, are you using the mech.exe provided with the new version of DV? The mech.exe used in 8.403 uses a different database for national exp levels. In that one, the Italians DO suck, big time.

The 8.403 values opened a HUGE kettle of worms. I have my own opinions on all that, but I'm gonna keep my mouth shut about it. (mmmpph!)

(in reply to Alby)
Post #: 3
RE: Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 3:43:35 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Robot,

From what you are describing, I think you might want to consider starting your campaign over again. 

If you are consistenly running out of build points with which to repair your core units, then you cannot perform the upgrades you need to keep up with the computer.  And then the situation becomes a vicious cycle and just gets worse and worse.

As I recall, you manually set your Italian Troop Quality to 45 to start the campaign.  Right?

Are you playing with the new Enhanced DV/RN Mod?

Perhaps some of the members here on this forum could give you some advice on re-structuring your core and settings for you to start the campaign all over again?

--V

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Post #: 4
RE: Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 3:50:50 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Now, wait. Alby, you provided the updated mech.exe chart for national experience levels, right? The Italians got a shot of viagrazzini in that one.

Robot, are you using the mech.exe provided with the new version of DV? The mech.exe used in 8.403 uses a different database for national exp levels. In that one, the Italians DO suck, big time.

The 8.403 values opened a HUGE kettle of worms. I have my own opinions on all that, but I'm gonna keep my mouth shut about it. (mmmpph!)


55 59 59 65 69 65 65 // ITALIAN


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Post #: 5
RE: Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 5:08:42 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		I went back to the 8.403 version didnt like the Artty in the new enhanced. yes i started the Italians out at 50 but most of them had 35 for exp. Like I said it takes longer this way to get to elite. I like it this way it is tough but then if I can get them too the end of the war i figure ive done something then right. My first battle ended in a draw and thats with 83% loss to my force. I am now in a defend should be a little easier. I have no tanks could not repair them do have a few ATG SP. Bought a lot of mines one thing I dont do normaly but needed something to stop there armor from overrunning me again. A few of my units have gained fairly good with there exp now I have several in the 67 range. See the new dar I started this battle a few minutes ago so far tthe British have lost at least 9 tanks in my minefield.

< Message edited by robot -- 2/2/2007 5:21:05 AM >

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RE: Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 5:25:11 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		In real life, the Brits kicked the Italians' butts in North Africa until the arrival of a German reinforcement unit in Feb 1941, led by some guy named Rommel.

Previously, the Greeks had kicked the Italians' butts ( until the arrival of the Germans).

Goin back even further, Libyan rebels also kicked their butts for awhile in the late 20s and early 30s. The Italians responded with a massive retalation towards the rebel home bases, with relocations and murders of the rebels' families.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 2/2/2007 6:28:20 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 5:49:46 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		dang --double post -- please delete

Why the heck can't we delete our own posts?

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 2/2/2007 6:05:16 AM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Italians really suck - 2/2/2007 12:22:32 PM   
FNG


Posts: 514
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Devizes, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

In real life, the Brits kicked the Italians' butts in North Africa until the arrival of a German reinforcement unit in Feb 1941, led by some guy named Rommel.



It should be noted that, on more than one occasion, the Italians handed the British their butts. However, these reverses were always attributed to the Germans in the popular press, so that the concept of a weak and ineffective Italian army was preserved in the minds of the British public and those units not actually engaged.



< Message edited by FNG -- 2/2/2007 1:03:30 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Italians really suck - 2/3/2007 5:47:06 PM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
The Italians responded with a massive retalation towards the rebel home bases, with relocations and murders of the rebels' families.


Are you sure you're not thinking about an episode of The Sopranos?




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Post #: 10
RE: Italians really suck - 2/3/2007 5:57:49 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tracer


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
The Italians responded with a massive retalation towards the rebel home bases, with relocations and murders of the rebels' families.


Are you sure you're not thinking about an episode of The Sopranos?





Hmm -- I don't watch the Sopranos, but I AM a fan of the Godfather movies (cue music). "Luca, take care of the rebel leader's horse, OK?"

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 2/3/2007 6:13:48 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Italians really suck - 2/3/2007 8:13:48 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		I can't believ Mau has not posted in this thread!!




< Message edited by Alby -- 2/3/2007 8:26:07 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: Italians really suck - 2/11/2007 2:28:06 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Mau 54 where are you?

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KED

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Post #: 13
RE: Italians really suck - 2/11/2007 3:23:39 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		You guys have to realize that robot is manually setting the Italians to 50.  ANY army is going to suck if you manually set them at 50. 

I advised robot to just leave "country training" ON, but he doesn't want to do that.  Hence, his Italians suck.

But it's not the Italians' fault.

--V

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Post #: 14
RE: Italians really suck - 2/12/2007 2:05:31 AM   
Krec


Posts: 548
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		the flamers are pretty good though

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Post #: 15
RE: Italians really suck - 2/16/2007 4:50:17 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline 		I don't think the Italians suck quite as bad as their reputation in this game. Some (a few) units are pretty good. And a mixed German-Italian force can be really fun to play against US or UK.

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Post #: 16
RE: Italians really suck - 2/16/2007 4:58:07 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline 		Second best SPWAW game I ever played was me as Italians defending against my son as UK assaulting. Medium battle, desert. I defended 3 hills and ignored victory hexes. Used mixed force of infantry, artillery, and armor (in reserve) and lots of mines. My son went with his patented all armor all the time strategy. Half of it was destroyed by artillery and mines at the line. The other half disappeared along with my infantry in the battle for the hills. Then my armor barely fought off his dismounted tank crews to recapture the victory hexes. We still talk about that game a year later. SPWAW can be great fun.

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Post #: 17
RE: Italians really suck - 2/16/2007 9:30:38 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I did an Italian long campaign once.....alot of fun because of the lower stats (and the cardboard tanks). Great challenge even against the AI. made a nice change of pace from the typical German campaign.

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Post #: 18
RE: Italians really suck - 2/16/2007 10:28:12 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		As I mentioned above, it's not that the Italians suck that is causing all of robot's problems.  Robot is turning "country training" OFF and manually setting the Italians to 50.  And that is what is causing all of robot's problems.  With "country training" ON, the Italians in 1940 are:  exp59, mor65, ldr55.  But when robot turns "country training" OFF, then his Italians become: exp50, mor50, ldr50.  And it is the low morale and low leadership that is killing robot. 

Robot's manually-set Italians can't rally, they can't hit their targets, they can't pass morale checks, they have few available shots, they run away at the first salvo, etc.  In other words, robot's Italians suck.  But it's not the Italians' fault.  It's robot's fault for manually setting them that way.  If robot wants to manually set his Italians to 50 and then get slaughtered, well, it's his party and he can cry if he wants to.  But it's not the Italians' fault.

< Message edited by vahauser -- 2/16/2007 10:42:03 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Italians really suck - 2/16/2007 11:00:51 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I don't see a typical Italian force set at 50 for a base as a problem. A challenge?....yes. Problem?....no. Like i said, it made a nice change of pace. What Robot thinks.....I don't know...but apparantly he must have wanted a challenge too



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Post #: 20
RE: Italians really suck - 2/16/2007 11:33:11 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Nikademus,

Wanting a challenge is one thing.  Manually setting your Italians to 50 and then starting a thread called "Italians Really Suck" is another. . .

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Post #: 21
RE: Italians really suck - 2/17/2007 12:14:33 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I don't see him complaining about it being "wrong" or "broken". Just that it was tough, which it is, as i've done one too.

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Post #: 22
RE: Italians really suck - 2/17/2007 12:35:21 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Nikademus,

So you wouldn't have a problem manually setting a USMC core to 50 and then starting a thread called "USMC Really Sucks"?

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Post #: 23
RE: Italians really suck - 2/17/2007 4:29:04 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
Gunny would be after you then...

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Post #: 24
RE: Italians really suck - 2/17/2007 5:38:57 PM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		I dont see the problem with me setting the exp to 50 and then saying they suck. They do and thats a fact even if its my own fault. I have always set any force i start a long campaign to 50 or some time to 45 wiith. It makes a more challenging campaign for me. Thats my style and thats makes them suck. I dont see why i cant make that statemanet even tho it may be my own fault. I started the Germans at 45 and they seemed to do ok may have been the great equipment over what the Italians seem to have during the same period. I like to see my troops make the improvments over time just takes my men longer is all to get to elite. Another thing I dont do is just upgrade my units when the new upgrades are available. I only upgrade units after a battle if they were destroyed. But thats my way of playing and thats the beauty of spwaw you can all play the way you want not the way someone says you should.

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Post #: 25
RE: Italians really suck - 2/17/2007 7:04:19 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		robot,

I hope you had a great time in Mexico.  Welcome back.  I certainly am not opposed to your way of playing.  For years I turned "historical ratings" OFF and manually set my own units' quality.  But I got the distinct impression that other people in this thread were misinterpreting what was going on here.  My sense was that people were thinking that you were saying that the Italians suck, period, in all cases and in all ways.  I was trying to point out that you were manually setting them to 50 which made them suck.  And that you were not saying that the Italians suck at all times and in all ways.

However, the title of your thread is somewhat misleading, so I can see where people might interpret your thread to be saying that the Italians suck at all times and in all ways.  A better title might have been "My Italians Suck", and for you to have stated clearly right from the beginning that they sucked because you made them suck by setting them to 50.

Anyway, it has been shown over and over on this board that everybody has a different way to play SPWAW that makes it enjoyable for them.  And the fact that you enjoy playing the way you do is all that matters.

I say again, welcome back from your vacation in Mexico and happy gaming.

--V

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Post #: 26
RE: Italians really suck - 2/18/2007 2:51:57 AM   
Mac67

 

Posts: 496
Joined: 3/7/2006
From: Essex, England
Status: offline 		Well i guess its historicial, the Italians did suck in real life!

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Post #: 27
RE: Italians really suck - 2/18/2007 3:06:16 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Va for the kind words and thats exactly what i meant. My Italians do more then suck thay are awful. And I know its my own fault. I could have started them out higher. But then I never did with the other powers so why should I play them different.

The battle I am fighting at the minute per my dar they are once again in mass retreat. I am down to 49 percent fighting strength and I will once again have trouble fixing and no upgrades. Wont have enough points to repair yet alone upgrade anything.

The British have over run all the victory hexes and I am in the process of trying to retake them all. Once again I had to call on the Germans to rescue me. Got a hold of a small panzer company and they are trying to destroy some of the British tanks that hold the two northern objectives. I have lost way too many men and armor units for me to get a minor win. Might be able to get a draw if we can retake the objectives by the end of battle.

To me this makes for a much more interesting battle then to be able to just tear the AI to pieces every battle. Its frutrating as hell but much more fun then just over powering the AI time after time.

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Post #: 28
RE: Italians really suck - 2/18/2007 6:43:34 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		Got them thru there first battle. Managed to get a draw. Was unable to repair all the units due to the heavy losses tho. Have a defend next time so maybe will get them all repaired after that battle. At least now I have at least 19 who are 70 and over in exp now. Lowest one is 40 but he died so had to restart him. Will hope we do better with this next defend and be able to gain some more and get better I hope.

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Post #: 29
RE: Italians really suck - 2/18/2007 10:50:11 PM   
Mau Fox


Posts: 113
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac67

Well i guess its historicial, the Italians did suck in real life!


Now cut it down guys. Ok?

Let's keep this a game.


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Post #: 30
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