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My condensed suggestions for future updates

 
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My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/22/2006 4:30:39 AM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		1) Customizable zones and/or lots more of zone templates (cover 2, 4, QQH, single deep for man free, lots of other oddball zones)

2) Option routes for TE's and WR's (only if item 1 is implemented)

3) Improved roster management (split DL into DE & DT, secondary into safeties and corners, possibly LBs into inside and outside, and OL into T & G)

4) As it is now, runners lose too much speed/momentum when they break a tackle. They shouldn't have to be brought to a near stop to break tackles (new game engine/physics needed?)

5) Flippable Defensive plays so the D can adjust to the strong side of the formation.

6) Improved pass blocking / ability to form a true pocket for the QB.

7) Adjustable line splits for Offensive lineman; coupled with option (presnap logic) to have DL adjust with the OL, or just stay in a predetermined spot.

8) Custom sound files for teams...it would be great to have the game burst into "Fight on State" everytime Penn State puts it in the endzone (user provided of course...just have a file bmg01.wav for every team)

9) Fix Run rush and pass rush so that defenders with run rush still rush on pass plays. I have many suitable fixes to this, but I think the easiest would be (once pass blocking is fixed) that run rush has a better chance of defeating a run block, as well as the contrapositive.

I'll add on if I think of any more.
Post #: 1
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/23/2006 11:34:12 PM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		I kinda disagree with your #4 suggestion.  In a way, I kinda like how David has the Running back "slow down" when they are successful breaking tackles.  I like to think that the Defenders are actually making contact with the runner and that would result in some loss of momentum for the Rusher when Breaking the Tackle.  Now I could understand what you mean when Defenders make contact with the Rusher but there hands slip (or whatever the situation) and barely slow him down.  Maybe David could add another Slider adjustment setting in the Main Database to give people the ability to adjust this if they want.

I kinda like your #8 suggestion.  It would be awsome to mode in Custom School Fight Songs for each team.  Would really make Highschool and College Leagues feel "Academic" (is that the right word?) compared to Pro Style leagues.

(in reply to dreamtheatervt)
Post #: 2
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 1:48:43 AM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		There is a difference between slowing down to say, 50-75% off his previous speed, and almost completely stopping. Right now breaking an open field tackle results in about an extra yard, if that because the running back for all intents and purposes, stops, and defenders from 7-8 yards away close the gap immediately.

< Message edited by dreamtheatervt -- 8/24/2006 5:00:22 PM >

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Post #: 3
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 6:57:49 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		In beta, I have been pushing for a revamped defensive format for zones, but there was much to do in this release, and David had to delay any major defensive overhaul that would include new zoning techniques.  Yeah, that is a bummer, not only because I would like to see the changes, but also because I will have to redraw a bunch of defenses after any future changes are made.  At least David has it on the list of things he would like to do in the future.

I have brought up giving each team a sound file folder as well.  Sound is something that will likely get pushed back a little though.

As I recall, running back tackle breaking has been tweaked a few times since the last public release.  I have seen players break tackles for big runs, but I'll have to check out what is going on in the latest build before saying that has been changed.

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Post #: 4
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 5:00:09 PM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info Marauders.

I don't expect all the changes to happen overnight, or even in the next release. I just wanted my ideas out there for people to discuss/agree/disagree/tweek/suggest new (H2H isn't new) ideas. The free exchange of ideas is the best way to make improvements.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 5
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 8:09:39 PM   
Marauders

 

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From: Minnesota
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quote:

I don't expect all the changes to happen overnight, or even in the next release. I just wanted my ideas out there for people to discuss/agree/disagree/tweek/suggest new (H2H isn't new) ideas. The free exchange of ideas is the best way to make improvements.


Yes!

If people want a feature or a change in the game, then they should post it here.  If people do not post, then it is much harder to convince David that some features are wanted by the community and worth taking the time to program. 

David and the development team have limited resources and time to add features, fix bugs, and test the game.  Without feedback, selecting features for builds and releases would be more difficult.


(in reply to dreamtheatervt)
Post #: 6
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 8:39:55 PM   
Marauders

 

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Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
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quote:

3) Improved roster management (split DL into DE & DT, secondary into safeties and corners, possibly LBs into inside and outside, and OL into T & G)


I'd like this too.  It likely won't get done unless people here ask for it.

quote:

5) Flippable Defensive plays so the D can adjust to the strong side of the formation.


Defensive plays can be flipped.  Just hit the 3 key or button when inside the play selection prior to selecting a play.  Note that all of the players on defense flip if one does it that way.

Another way to do it is to have strong side plays set up as audibles.  Then the defender can shift over to those plays.  There are only four audibles, so one must be careful to use them wisely.

Defensive audibles were not working on the last public build, but they should be fine for Release 3.  The defense also now has the ability to see the offensive player numbers going into the play.  The number of skilled players are indicated, so a defensive coordinator can better select his plays.

In this example, the defensive coordinator can see that the offense has selected a play with one back and three receivers.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Marauders -- 8/24/2006 8:57:03 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 9:04:55 PM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Flipping the play presnap doesn't do much good because I won't know which side is the strong side until they line up. I was hoping a "quick flip" would be available so I can have my front aligned properly, along with any stunts being run to the side I want them run.

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Post #: 8
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 9:06:24 PM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
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From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

The defense also now has the ability to see the offensive player numbers going into the play.  The number of skilled players are indicated, so a defensive coordinator can better select his plays.



This is very important. Thank you!

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 9
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 9:25:58 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

dreamtheatervt stated: Flipping the play presnap doesn't do much good because I won't know which side is the strong side until they line up. I was hoping a "quick flip" would be available so I can have my front aligned properly, along with any stunts being run to the side I want them run.


Before release, there was a thread about this on the board. I stated that the ability to have the defense see the offensive play was needed for similar reasons as you state. It was too late to do much about it though, and some community members didn't understand what the fuss was about.

There has always been a debate about what the defense would know prior to the snap, and both sides have valid points.

When I joined the beta team, I asked David if he could show the offensive personnel to the defense, and he thought it was a good idea. He added it to the game for Release 3. It isn't quite as nice as seeing the actual formation, but a defensive coordinator wouldn't know that anyway.

There is a problem that plays are not set to weak and strong side but to left and right instead. This can create some mismatch problems if a defense shades one way or has to go against a side flooded by the offense. The ability to have four defensive audibles set will help combat that more than having a quick flip, as a flip would likely have more players out of position on the snap.

The improved defensive logic commands will allow much better man coverage that before. DB's and linebacks can line up on receivers and cover them. They can either cover the closest receiver or be assigned to specific receiver positions (WR1, TE, HB, ...) when creating the play.

It isn't perfect, but coaching never is. It does make the selection of audibles important, as those will be the fall back plays in case the coordinator guesses wrong.




(in reply to dreamtheatervt)
Post #: 10
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 8/24/2006 11:39:45 PM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		I agree that plays aren't set to the weak side or strong side, you don't want to have too strong of a tendency. But most coaches still have some sorts of keys for determining alignment. For example, in a Miami/slide front, the DT aligns on the TE side, in a 3 technique (outside eye of G), and the NT will align in a 2 technique (inside eye) over the other G. The other postions have alignment keys as well. If, say the TE trades to the other side, and the defence doesn't adjust, the defence is now overshifted toward the weak side, making blocking angles for the offense much better than they should be.

As to what the defence knows and when they know it, here is what we did at the HS level:

In the booth, one coach had the job of watching the opponent's sideline and determining the personel for the upcoming play.
This info was immediately sent to the DC's headset (he preferred to stay on the field), so he could make appropriate substitutions and send in a play based on the personel and game situation.
When the offense breaks huddle, within a second the defensive captain can call an alignment based on what direction the alignment key goes.
The D is set by a few seconds before the QB starts cadence.

I realize that it is impossible to translate everything about real football into a video game...but this seems like the game that can do the most.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 11
New Suggestions for the Future - 9/27/2006 12:56:29 AM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		I know this has been brought up, but I would like to see skill positions have the ability to handoff/pitch and pass so the reverses and hook & ladder plays would be possible.

This one I think would be tough, but I would love it if handoff and pitch were separate options, so that on handoffs the ball is extended until the ball carrier gets to the ball (more realistic). I would also like to the option for the QB to mesh and ride a ball carrier (regardless of whether it is a handoff or a fake). Again, just cosmetic, but it would make belly series plays look more authentic.

In the last public release, if the QB rolls out to pass, instead of setting up at the end of his role (and looking like he is going to pass just like a dropback), he just runs in place until he passes or resumes running. It's just cosmetic, but it's annoying as is IMHO.

(in reply to dreamtheatervt)
Post #: 12
RE: New Suggestions for the Future - 9/27/2006 9:10:26 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

I know this has been brought up, but I would like to see skill positions have the ability to handoff/pitch and pass so the reverses and hook & ladder plays would be possible.


I certainly agree on that point.  I have asked for it, and we may get it, but then it will have to be tested against the AI.  That is the sort of thing that causes delays sometimes.  Small changes may require quite a bit of testing.  I believe the defensive AI should be able to handle it, but it may require some changes in the Read: logic code just as having three running backs did.

(in reply to dreamtheatervt)
Post #: 13
RE: New Suggestions for the Future - 9/27/2006 8:42:47 PM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		It's cool, I just wanted to keep it warm while throwing out my other handoff related issues.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 14
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 1/30/2007 9:41:46 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamtheatervt

1) Customizable zones and/or lots more of zone templates (cover 2, 4, QQH, single deep for man free, lots of other oddball zones)


Your wish has been granted!

quote:

4) As it is now, runners lose too much speed/momentum when they break a tackle. They shouldn't have to be brought to a near stop to break tackles (new game engine/physics needed?)


I believe this has been updated.

quote:

5) Flippable Defensive plays so the D can adjust to the strong side of the formation.


It's in the game.

quote:

9) Fix Run rush and pass rush so that defenders with run rush still rush on pass plays. I have many suitable fixes to this, but I think the easiest would be (once pass blocking is fixed) that run rush has a better chance of defeating a run block, as well as the contrapositive.


Run Rush will move to the backfield.

(in reply to dreamtheatervt)
Post #: 15
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 1/31/2007 2:45:19 AM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamtheatervt

5) Flippable Defensive plays so the D can adjust to the strong side of the formation.


It's in the game.


You can flip the defensive play at the LOS? How do I do this?



< Message edited by Marauders -- 1/31/2007 3:06:22 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 1/31/2007 4:38:23 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

You can flip the defensive play at the LOS? How do I do this?


One can flip the play while selecting it, but I guess that isn't helpful once the play is selected, and the field of play is shown with trips left or in a single wing.

What one can do is set up the audibles heavy left, heavy right, coverage deep, and blitz.  That takes care of many mistakes in play calling.

The game does not know what side is strong or weak at this time, so there are no Sam, Mike, and Will linebackers, but one can set up defensive plays to have Sam cover the tight end and Will to key the back.  Mike can drop into zone.

Alternatively, a safety can come up and cover the tight end from inside the box, and the Sam and Mike can set back into two cover zones.  In either case, one will want to make sure that the audibles are set up in order to cover any problems once the players set up.

(in reply to dreamtheatervt)
Post #: 17
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 2/3/2007 3:32:14 AM   
hack153

 

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline 		just running with dream's wishlist....

when making a formation and placing players in a stance..ie..3 pt stance, it would be nice if the players stayed in that stance when you create a new play, this way you don't have to do it every time.

when making KO and KR formations and plays, the display doesn't show all your players...

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 18
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 2/19/2007 6:51:43 PM   
Charlie19341


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2007
From: Exton, PA
Status: offline 		A roster management enhancement to split the Defensive Line into DE & DT, the Offensive Line into C & G & T, the secondary into Safeties and Corners, and possibly LBs into inside and outside would be an excellent enhancement! The would allow for differentiation in attributes by similar player positions (e.g. DE position a little lighter and not as Strong, but better Acceleration and Speed than the DT; the C with better Hands; the Guards with better Intelligence; the Tackles with better Agility and size, or whatever appropriate). If we go this route, we should discuss the differentiation of the quality attributes in the Forum.

You said ask, so I am asking!


_____________________________

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Post #: 19
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 2/20/2007 2:47:38 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		Splitting all positions into a more granular state (DL->DE/DT, LB->ILB/OLB, etc...) is being worked on.

(in reply to Charlie19341)
Post #: 20
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 2/20/2007 2:50:22 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
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From: Vancouver, BC
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quote:

when making KO and KR formations and plays, the display doesn't show all your players...


There's simply no room on the thumbnail for players that are spread out that far. I can't squish the little icons on the thumbnail any closer together to fit the whole width of the field (US and Canadian) so some players, very close to the edge of the field and about 35 yards north of the centre, get left off the thumbnail.

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Post #: 21
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 2/20/2007 4:33:38 AM   
RVD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

Splitting all positions into a more granular state (DL->DE/DT, LB->ILB/OLB, etc...) is being worked on.



Great! Thanks David.

RVD

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Post #: 22
RE: My condensed suggestions for future updates - 2/20/2007 6:03:15 AM   
Charlie19341


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2007
From: Exton, PA
Status: offline 		Excellent!   Thanks

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Post #: 23
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