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RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/1/2007 8:03:14 PM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: christof139

Several of my highschool friends and aquaintances died in Vietnam. I was in 1970-73, but luckily went to Germany, where things were also blown up by terrorists in 1972.

Chris-karoo


Also was stationed in Germany (Heidleberg) during same timeframe. Believe the Bader-Meinhoff gang was responsible for many of the bombings including one way too close to me.

(in reply to christof139)



Absolutely, I remember it. V Corps HQ was hit with a car bomb and so was 7th Army HQ or an HQ building. I have the dates. casualties, and places, Frankfurt am Main and Heidelberg respectively I believe, in a saved VFW monthly magazine of mine. Yes, dates were May 11th and May 24th, 1972. Casualties totalled 4 KIA and 18 WIA. From what I learned back then, one or both of the car bombs went off either purposefully or accidentally during lucnhtimes, when the offices weren't crowded. Supposedly some trucks were also highjacked by the BMG. This info, the dates and places, and casualties, is in the November 1999 VFW Magazine, page 20. This issue lists many of the Cold War incidents.

The BM Gang was also associated with the PLO at this time. They later merged with some other group or groups, including a Japanese group I do believe, amd became the red Brigades if I am not mistaken.

I was in wonderful Baumholder, and saw the V Corps HQ a day or the same day after it was hit, as I and another fellow were picking up TOW AT Missile System parts in Hanau I do believe. Can't remember exactly what we were doing, but it was official business.

How close were you when the car bomb, or whatever it was, in Heidelburg went off??

Glad you weren't hit with anything.

I have been shot at a couple of times, and seen shootings and stabbings and blah blah blah, and you don't forget those things and try to learn from them. Some guy tried to slice and dice me one day. Phrrrrt.

Chris

(in reply to oldspec4)
Post #: 31
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/1/2007 8:18:43 PM   
ABridgeTooFar

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Upon searching the net it concludes that they did land on Utah. Is there any way some might have come upon Omaha on the 12th? Because that is what I seem to recall. I am going off of memory and am just curious.

mo reb



Anything is possible. I am not going to call your neighbor, Mr. Sampson, a liar. He was there, I wasn't. If he says it is true, then it is good enough for me.

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 32
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/1/2007 8:21:04 PM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Upon searching the net it concludes that they did land on Utah. Is there any way some might have come upon Omaha on the 12th? Because that is what I seem to recall. I am going off of memory and am just curious.

mo reb



Anything is possible. I am not going to call your neighbor, Mr. Sampson, a liar. He was there, I wasn't. If he says it is true, then it is good enough for me.


You know, some smaller units could have. They were bringing troops ashore wherever it was expedient to do so.

Chris

(in reply to ABridgeTooFar)
Post #: 33
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/1/2007 9:09:23 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ABridgeTooFar

Anything is possible. I am not going to call your neighbor, Mr. Sampson, a liar. He was there, I wasn't. If he says it is true, then it is good enough for me.


Really it was about 10 years ago since I have seen Mr. Sampson and he didn't tell me about omaha, he just mentioned 'the beach'. I glanced at a framed citation that I thought said omaha prior to that. Like I said, it was my memory. One that is slightly fogged at times.

quote:

You know, some smaller units could have. They were bringing troops ashore wherever it was expedient to do so.

Chris


Yes, quite a conflict. One I hope will never be repeated. Peace Christof139. I sometimes let my feelings get in the way of rational discussion. It has been a long time since the war indeed and you and I can certainly be good neighbors, even if we don't agree on certain things.

Mo Reb


_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to ABridgeTooFar)
Post #: 34
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/1/2007 9:54:24 PM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		After the AWI or RevWar, a consensus was taken in Congress or whatever it was called back then, and 12 out of 13 States were in favor of abolishing slavery, and the only State that wasn't was i do believe SC. Why it wasn't done its a shame and a mystery and led to too many years of suffering for a lot of people, including white indentured servants/slaves etc.

When Detroit basically 'seceeded' in 1967 Slavery wasn't the issue, and the riot started when the DPD busted an after hours joint, a blind pig, and the first Police Officer through the door was a black guy. However, because of years of prejudice and the Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War and the heat and humidity etc., this little incident spread and grew, and soon the whole city blew its cork. Hence, Detroit was brought back under control thorugh the use of armed force. Not an exact analogy with the ACW but close.

I abhor the Carpetbaggers after the ACW and the impovershment of the South due to these and local scoundrels, and the Johnson admisnistration didn't help matters. Many Union Vets settled in the South after the ACW,a and the vast majority weren't carpetbaggers or crooks, but settled there because they had fought there and liked the people and country, and some were invited by Southerners to come live in the South. Many acts of friendship and compassion during and after the ACW.

NB Forrest did a lot to sooth feelings and help after the ACW, and addressed an African-American convention of veterans that served on both sides during the war, and he addressed them all as brothers and said he would do whatever he could to help them gain their rightful place in society. He was invited by the Ladies and Vets to speak at the convention. a very touching and sincere moment in our history that was ignored, and this is documented in the Memphis Star. forrest was extremely touched with compassion ans sincerety at this event, and meant every word he said. he also said of the Black confeds. that formed his Bodyguard and served in many of his units, that he neve knew finer Confeds. than they. Forrest was exonerated of the Ft. Pillow massacare through the honest testimony of Union troops that were there.

Much was and has been covered-up and ignored. Another thing that is ignored were the raids into Kansas and the infighting in Missouri before the ACW between pro and anti slavery people. And the anti slavery Kansans (there were pro slavery Kansans too) under Jim Lane etc. did retaliate in a brutal fashion, and so it went on. Quantril hit Lawrence Kansas in retaliation for a Union Kansan/Missourian raid on a Confed. town in MO (I forget the name of the town, but it is in a book or 2 I own). So, many things were pushed under the carpet.

The thing is that it has been 142-years since the ACW ended. Yet still some on both sides seem to carry on forever about somethings that are irrelevant now, at least IMHO. The war tocuhes us personally only in a slight manner now, since none of us experienced those times, yet we remember people and events from then as part of our National Heritage, and from a human perspective of understanding and compassion, not to simply dispute whether a State had the right to secede or whom attacked whom first.

More recent events that we have ourselves experienced and are experiencing are more important and meaningful now.

The Constitution or Preamble or another document states that we as citizens have the right to peacable assemblage armed or unarmed, not armed assemblage with the purpose of causing insurrection and/or anarchy etc.

Supposedly, form the inception of the USA it was one for all and all for one, but in reality things were a bit differnet in the past, and even still so today in many of the same or similar or even different ways, but things have indeed changed over time.

Chris







(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 35
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/1/2007 10:25:01 PM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		I remember the Watts riots in LA but I not the Detroit riots. Was there something else going on at the same time to overshadow it?

_____________________________

quote:

Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"

(in reply to christof139)
Post #: 36
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/1/2007 10:39:14 PM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I remember the Watts riots in LA but I not the Detroit riots. Was there something else going on at the same time to overshadow it?


Overshadow what 'it'. There was Detroit, Watts, Newark, etc., Vietnam, the Civil Rights Movement, the long ongoing Cold/Hot War, etc. The 1967 Detroit Riots were the worse in the USA during the 20th Century up until the LA Rodney King Riots. the 1942 Detroit Riot was a race riot through and through, unlike the 1967 Riot.

Chris


(in reply to Drex)
Post #: 37
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/1/2007 11:06:11 PM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		The vietnam war was a day-t0-day occurence for us, the Watts riots were two years before Detroit so it must be because I was on the West Coast and they didn't play it up as much as the local Watts riot. I was just wondering if there was another event that was happening at the smae time since the Detroit riots were larger than Watts. Or maybe i was too loaded to notice.:)

_____________________________

quote:

Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"

(in reply to christof139)
Post #: 38
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 1:48:52 AM   
oldspec4

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 11/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: christof139

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: christof139

Several of my highschool friends and aquaintances died in Vietnam. I was in 1970-73, but luckily went to Germany, where things were also blown up by terrorists in 1972.

Chris-karoo


Also was stationed in Germany (Heidleberg) during same timeframe. Believe the Bader-Meinhoff gang was responsible for many of the bombings including one way too close to me.

(in reply to christof139)



Absolutely, I remember it. V Corps HQ was hit with a car bomb and so was 7th Army HQ or an HQ building. I have the dates. casualties, and places, Frankfurt am Main and Heidelberg respectively I believe, in a saved VFW monthly magazine of mine. Yes, dates were May 11th and May 24th, 1972. Casualties totalled 4 KIA and 18 WIA. From what I learned back then, one or both of the car bombs went off either purposefully or accidentally during lucnhtimes, when the offices weren't crowded. Supposedly some trucks were also highjacked by the BMG. This info, the dates and places, and casualties, is in the November 1999 VFW Magazine, page 20. This issue lists many of the Cold War incidents.

The BM Gang was also associated with the PLO at this time. They later merged with some other group or groups, including a Japanese group I do believe, amd became the red Brigades if I am not mistaken.

I was in wonderful Baumholder, and saw the V Corps HQ a day or the same day after it was hit, as I and another fellow were picking up TOW AT Missile System parts in Hanau I do believe. Can't remember exactly what we were doing, but it was official business.

How close were you when the car bomb, or whatever it was, in Heidelburg went off??

Glad you weren't hit with anything.

I have been shot at a couple of times, and seen shootings and stabbings and blah blah blah, and you don't forget those things and try to learn from them. Some guy tried to slice and dice me one day. Phrrrrt.

Chris



Chris,

I don't remember the exact dates but I was assigned to a highly secured area of USAREUR Headquarters (actually worked in a "bank vault" type of room). At the time, the security checkpoints into the HDQTRS casern was not much, i.e., if you had the appropriate green USA license and the right decal, you were pretty much waved into the facility. The bomb was attached to an officer's car who worked in the same bldg. as me. IIRC, the bomb was detonated electronically somehow; and the officer and an enlisted guy were killed. The blast effect was something I will never forget. Not much left of the vehicle. The area where the car was parked ( the old German paving bricks)depressed down a foot or so. Lots of anti-Nam war protests at the time, particularly in Heidelberg. BTW, I volunteered for Nam, spent 6 days at the Oakland Army base before they decided to divert me to Germany. Typical Army! Yeah...having grown up in one of the "rustbelt" cities, I've seen some pretty crazy stuff on the streets but probably is the reason why I have also been able to avoid many bad situations in the past. Thx for the VFW mag reference...its hard to believe at times that its been 35 years ago.

Mike

(in reply to christof139)
Post #: 39
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 2:26:15 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drex

The vietnam war was a day-t0-day occurence for us, the Watts riots were two years before Detroit so it must be because I was on the West Coast and they didn't play it up as much as the local Watts riot. I was just wondering if there was another event that was happening at the smae time since the Detroit riots were larger than Watts. Or maybe i was too loaded to notice.:)



As I recall the City that had the democratic convention in it had a huge riot, cant remember if that was Detroit or Chicago though. Chicago comes to mind cause of the Chicago 7 or what ever they were called.

(in reply to Drex)
Post #: 40
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 12:22:52 PM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

As I recall the City that had the democratic convention in it had a huge riot, cant remember if that was Detroit or Chicago though. Chicago comes to mind cause of the Chicago 7 or what ever they were called.


That was Chicago, and the riot was locallized in the convention and surrounding areas. It was not anything like Watts, Newark, and Detroit. In Detroit, all told, about 20,000 State and Local Police, NAGs (National Guard) and 7 Bns. or 2 Brigades, one each from the 82nd AB and 101st AB/AM Divisions were all under Federal control and federal Martial law was declared. Then there were also about 50 tanks, mainly M41 Walker Bulldogs, M113 APCs, Jeeps with air and water-cooled Browing .30 cal. MGs, and armored cars and choppers. It was a mess.

Today, the two most dangerous cities to live in in the USA are #1 St. Louis, MO and #2 Detroit, MI. Interesting. We have 15% unemployment within the ciyt limits of Detroit, unemployed Police, Teachers, autoworkers, etc. etc. It's bad. Since our great patriotic corporations are producing so much overseas, especially consumer electronic goods in places like China, Malaysia, Taiwan, Costa ica, Singapore, etc. and then there is NAFTA, the rustbelt has been taking heavy economic hits since 1973. Michigan, Kentucky, West Virginia, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesotta and probably the St. Louis area in Missouri have been hit pretty hard in comparison to the rest of the USA.

Chris



(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 41
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 12:36:09 PM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Chris,

I don't remember the exact dates but I was assigned to a highly secured area of USAREUR Headquarters (actually worked in a "bank vault" type of room). At the time, the security checkpoints into the HDQTRS casern was not much, i.e., if you had the appropriate green USA license and the right decal, you were pretty much waved into the facility. The bomb was attached to an officer's car who worked in the same bldg. as me. IIRC, the bomb was detonated electronically somehow; and the officer and an enlisted guy were killed. The blast effect was something I will never forget. Not much left of the vehicle. The area where the car was parked ( the old German paving bricks)depressed down a foot or so. Lots of anti-Nam war protests at the time, particularly in Heidelberg. BTW, I volunteered for Nam, spent 6 days at the Oakland Army base before they decided to divert me to Germany. Typical Army! Yeah...having grown up in one of the "rustbelt" cities, I've seen some pretty crazy stuff on the streets but probably is the reason why I have also been able to avoid many bad situations in the past. Thx for the VFW mag reference...its hard to believe at times that its been 35 years ago.

Mike


Yeah, that was close for you. I save only a few of the VFW and other Veteran Organization magazines I get, and that issue is one of them.

A friend of mine was in Munich and about 100 yards or os give or take from the massacare of the Israeli athletes by the PLO or whomever did it.

Yeah, I remember the German paving bricks and cobblestones, we have those still in Detroit on some streets in the older parts of town.

I was in the Infantry, and also volunteered for Vietnam, and a few fellows from 1/39 Inf. did go. We had a memorial in our Bn. HQ for those members of 1/39, Paddy's Gang, that were KIA. The last big troop levy came down in the Summer of 1970, about 7 or 8 months before I got there.

During the 1973 Yom Kippur War, things almost went nuclear, and I knew a fellow from here that was in a Pershing I Missle Bn. at Heilbron, and they were one Defcon away from mounting the warheads and firing. My AT Pltn. sent 6 out of 12 TOW I AT Missile Systems to Israel, and everyone was on Red Alert. We moved our APCs to a valley and sat there buttoned-up waiting for the Soviet missle strike. The guy in the Pershing Bn. was in the field for 45-days. things were very tense, and no large scale troop manuevers were allowed in NATO and the Warsaw Pact during the time of the Yom Kippur War of October, 1973. I have known a couple Israeli Paratroopers that were engaged with the Syrians, particularily in that one village where there was dug-in Syrian Armor and Commandos, they were lucky to survive.

Glad you are here and also interested in the ACW, Chris


< Message edited by christof139 -- 3/2/2007 1:18:06 PM >

(in reply to oldspec4)
Post #: 42
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 2:10:14 PM   
Alan_Bernardo

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Bowling Green, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

Today, the two most dangerous cities to live in in the USA are #1 St. Louis, MO and #2 Detroit, MI.


And what are your sources?  In truth, there's no way to determine what are the most dangerous cities.  This is just something manufactured to get money for grants, sell books, and get people to watch the news.  Any survey attempting to figure what is the best or worst of this or that is just what it says it is-- a survey.  It hardly means a thing, since surveys and other types of statistical information only mean what the publishers of the information want it to mean.  It's all about motive, and money drives most motives.


Alan

(in reply to christof139)
Post #: 43
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 2:22:26 PM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Souces are USA Crime Statistics, and during the World Series this year these statistics were quoted on national TV all across the USA.

If you want to go do a little research and you will find this info. Try the FBI and other Law Enforcement statistical doucuments, as they are easily accesible on the inet.

There is not any 'money involved' or alterior or ulterior or whatever motives in these very factual statistics.

Chris

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alan_Bernardo

quote:

Today, the two most dangerous cities to live in in the USA are #1 St. Louis, MO and #2 Detroit, MI.


And what are your sources?  In truth, there's no way to determine what are the most dangerous cities.  This is just something manufactured to get money for grants, sell books, and get people to watch the news.  Any survey attempting to figure what is the best or worst of this or that is just what it says it is-- a survey.  It hardly means a thing, since surveys and other types of statistical information only mean what the publishers of the information want it to mean.  It's all about motive, and money drives most motives.


Alan


BTW, Detroit proper has a 15% unemployment rate, including Teachers, Police, Firemen, Autoworkers, etc. since our patriotic corporations have moved so much of their production overseas, and NAFTA has not been so good to industry and commercial and private enterprises in Michigan and elsewhere in the old Rustbelt, the Midwest.

I guess you being in the metropolis of Amherst might insulate you from a few things.

Chris



< Message edited by christof139 -- 3/2/2007 4:27:33 PM >

(in reply to Alan_Bernardo)
Post #: 44
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 2:59:47 PM   
Maurym


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Georgia USA
Status: offline 		Remember the kids game where one person would whisper something to the person next to them and so on around the room. You compare the message at the end to what the message was at the beginning. This thread (and the ETA one) reminds me of that somewhat...we started with Lee Marvin & Capt. Roo fightin' in the WW2 (or ETA on Patch release)...now were talkin' crime rates in cities (or building my next computer).


(in reply to christof139)
Post #: 45
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 3:47:22 PM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Awwww. It is funny isn't it??

Chris

(in reply to Maurym)
Post #: 46
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/2/2007 4:11:02 PM   
Maurym


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Georgia USA
Status: offline 		yep

(in reply to christof139)
Post #: 47
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/4/2007 2:27:28 AM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Did you know Soupy Sales was once a Drill Segeant??

Chris

(in reply to Maurym)
Post #: 48
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/4/2007 2:36:33 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		So was Don Adams (= Maxwell Smart). (Well, not sure about the rank, but definitely a drill instructor.)

(in reply to christof139)
Post #: 49
RE: Tommorrow ... - 3/4/2007 2:53:07 AM   
christof139


Posts: 980
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

So was Don Adams (= Maxwell Smart). (Well, not sure about the rank, but definitely a drill instructor.)


Was he a Drill Instructor or a Drill Segeant??

And yes, I do recall hearing that he was one or the other. Forgot about him. Is it true??

Chris

PS: I was joking about Soupy Sales.




< Message edited by christof139 -- 3/4/2007 3:13:16 AM >

(in reply to Gil R.)
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