Is this normal?????

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Is this normal?????

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Is this normal????? - 3/10/2007 11:41:51 PM

hawker

Posts: 849
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: Split,Croatia
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Greetings,
In my game against dpstafford i invade Russia.
Everything seems so fine in air,but land combat sucks big time.
Look at these two attacks on same spot:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 65,32

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 580890 troops, 6373 guns, 939 vehicles, Assault Value = 11762

Defending force 82 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Japanese max assault: 23954 - adjusted assault: 32816

Allied max defense: 1 - adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 32816 to 1

Allied ground losses:
59 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And second:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 65,32

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 581025 troops, 6386 guns, 939 vehicles, Assault Value = 11765

Defending force 111 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2

Japanese max assault: 23936 - adjusted assault: 39334

Allied max defense: 1 - adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 39334 to 1

Allied ground losses:
77 casualties reported

Almost 600k troops against 82 Russians!!!!
Last time when i attack Russia was against GH with patch 1.602. I thought that land combat system was repaired after that time but now sucks even more.

Can someone help about this??

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RE: Is this normal????? - 3/10/2007 11:49:58 PM

rtrapasso

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That's the nature of combat in troops not at bases... they don't surrender.

Just pretend the guerillas and it makes a bit more sense...

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Post #: 2

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/11/2007 12:01:37 AM

hawker

Posts: 849
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From: Split,Croatia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

That's the nature of combat in troops not at bases... they don't surrender.

Just pretend the guerillas and it makes a bit more sense...

This cant make any sense.
600000 troops must break 82 troops,but only in real life.

Now,these troops can accept reinforcements and i will forever fight against them.

This was and still is major flaw,Ron was right after all.

Game engine cannot handle this scale of LCU,that is only answer i think,if i attack with ,lets say 10000 troops, all will be fine.

P.S. They could write in manual:
Dont attack anything with more than 100k troops

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Post #: 3

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/11/2007 12:10:13 AM

rtrapasso

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Doesn't matter - you could attack with 75000, or 20000, or 10000 - the results would be relatively similar (although you did almost wipe them out).

You only get results like these (AFAIK) when the unit is cut off - and can not therefore accept replacements.

Eventually, you can destroy these remnants through repeated attacks.

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Post #: 4

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/11/2007 12:19:44 AM

hawker

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From: Split,Croatia
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I know that,but time is essence here.
This is artillery unit and static,they cant retreat.
They cant be destroyed also,if someone has to put 600k troops against 82 soldiers for a long period that is.....,ups,i will be polite.

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Post #: 5

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/11/2007 1:40:20 AM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
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From: Colbert Nation
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
You only get results like these (AFAIK) when the unit is cut off - and can not therefore accept replacements.

The unit is NOT cutoff. It is, however, a static unit, so it can't retreat.

Something very strange is going on. Maybe it is by design, to stop Axis fan boys from having it too easy when they attack Russia.

Given my opponents extreme arrogance, I'm loving it! It is giving me time to actually prepare a Soviet defense.

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Post #: 6

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/11/2007 3:30:15 AM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
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From: Colbert Nation
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The (not even) 300!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 7

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 4:12:39 AM

USSAmerica

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From: Graham, NC, USA
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Look at the experience of that unit! That must count for something. This is a good sized unit, even if it's assault strength is not that strong. It can be squashed under your boot heel, but it will take time, and I understand that hawker can't afford to slow down. It's not just going to explode on it's own, just because you (and 600,000 of your closest friends) walk into town.

Or, maybe the ground combat system is completely unable to handle engagements this large.

What do I know, I'm on Turn 2 of my first PBEM game.

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Post #: 8

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 11:04:04 AM

Sardaukar

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From: Finland/Israel
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Looks like CHS game....IMHO, it's not very good idea to invade SU in CHS. Soviet force levels are quite different from Stock...

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Post #: 9

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 11:25:59 AM

pauk

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From: Zagreb,Croatia
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nah, it is stock game with AB map...

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Post #: 10

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 11:43:10 AM

Sardaukar

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Oh ! no wonder he attacked SU then...

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Post #: 11

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 9:00:24 PM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk
nah, it is stock game with AB map...

Your countryman seems to have disappeared. From both the game and the forum. What is the story......?

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Post #: 12

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 9:15:29 PM

pauk

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From: Zagreb,Croatia
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excuse me...why the hell i would know where is he?????

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Post #: 13

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 9:21:53 PM

dpstafford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

excuse me...why the hell i would know where is he?????

Don't all Croats know each other personally?????

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Post #: 14

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 9:28:56 PM

Icedawg

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In my experience, its too much of a pain in the butt to take out these stragglers.

So, I've adopted a couple of strategies to deal with them.

First of all, I make sure that all enemy units in the immediate area of some base I wish to take either are driven back to that base, or have some other retreat path available. Then I take the base and either force all enemy units to retreat back to some other base (if a retreat path is available), or force them to surrender (if no path is available). In any event, the combat never leaves an unsurrendered enemy unit in "no man's land" (having no supply path). I know this is quite ahistorical (leaving enemy units without supply was a pretty good way of forcing them to surrender in real life - in the game, its the best way of getting them to hold out forever!).

Secondly, if something goes awry in the strategy above, I will intentionally let the enemy unit(s) take a nearby base. I then move my units to the base, defeat the enemy force that just reoccuppied the base and thereby force it to surrender (I make sure there is no other enemy base at hand that can serve as a supply path).

Both of these strategies are very "gamey", but with the combat system so messed up, I feel they are justified (if the game itself is being "gamey", I can be "gamey" to undo the problem). So, I guess sometimes two wrongs do make a right.

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RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 9:48:51 PM

dpstafford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg
In my experience, its too much of a pain in the butt to take out these stragglers.

What the hooch are you talking about? The unit is a static fort blocking the road to Vladivostok. And holding up more that half a million soldiers of the Rising Sun who can't wait to get their hands on some Russian women.

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RE: Is this normal????? - 3/12/2007 10:27:17 PM

Sonny II

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

......................

And holding up more that half a million soldiers of the Rising Sun who can't wait to get their hands on some Russian women.

Why?

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Post #: 17

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/13/2007 12:19:47 AM

dpstafford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sonny II
Why?

Womens is womens......

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Post #: 18

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/13/2007 12:47:36 AM

RevRick

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From: Thomasville, GA
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Did you ever see Tamara Press, the Russian Shot Putter, who was a railroad engineer?

Just for your edification, try the following link
http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_athletics/PRESS_Tamara_19610920_EL_L.jpg

< Message edited by RevRick -- 3/13/2007 12:54:57 AM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Is this normal????? - 3/13/2007 12:57:28 AM

rtrapasso

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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Did you ever see Tamara Press, the Russian Shot Putter, who was a railroad engineer?

Just for your edification, try the following link
http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_athletics/PRESS_Tamara_19610920_EL_L.jpg

Wasn't she one of the reasons they went to chromosome testing??