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RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/12/2007 2:09:17 AM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT
Yes, Yes , please do if it wouldn't be too much trouble. Many of us have their own personel mods that may or may not be as detailed as CHS but have many more ships than the Standard set. Even just posting any additional ships you may have at the same scale and style would be greatly appreciated. I think your combined work is excellent and I am greatful for all your hard work and efforts.

Regards


I can do that, but the sides and shils will be numbered according to what the CHS database calls out. This may not be compatible with your mod. You might have to go to the "blank" panel, find the ships you want, and paste them on appropriate side and shil backgrounds. If you want, I can include a 'background' panel that has 10 different, but suitable and appropriate, backgrounds for your cut-&-pasting pleasure. Let me know.
JWE

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Post #: 301
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/12/2007 2:28:37 AM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
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Status: offline 		Hey Halsey !!

Gotta proposition for ya. I've done an analysis of CHS as to bitmapping and have a nice spreadsheet (also in .doc, .rtf, .htm) of every Allied class, its baseline bitmap, and all its associated upgrade bitmaps. Noticed the same kinds of blivets that you did. For example, the CHS database calls out the following:

Nevada -------- baselines at #0177 and upgrades to 0403, 0404, 0405
Pennsylvania -- baselines at #0178 and upgrades to 0408, 0409
New Mexico --- baselines at #0179 and upgrades to 0458, 0406
Tennessee ----- baselines at #0180 and upgrades to 0411, 0412
Colorado ------ baselines at #0181 and upgrades to 0400, 0401, 0402

This is kinda strange since there are only a couple of visually significant upgrades for each of these treaty BBs (in several cases only one). Best I can figure is set out below, with their PH configuration at left, interim config next, and final config at right.

There is likely a bunch of 'interim'-interim configurations as well, but these involve a repositioning and and intensification of 'black dots' representing an increase in light AA. Notably, this does not represent a visually significant redesign of the vessel and would not involve a departure from the representative annuated profile.

Would you be interested in collaborating on a “redo” of the major Allied warship classes for CHS?? If so, send me a PM with your email, we'll chatter & go from there.

JWE





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Post #: 302
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/12/2007 2:34:06 AM   
Dixie


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USS California




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Post #: 303
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/12/2007 2:34:50 AM   
Dixie


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Post #: 304
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/12/2007 2:52:07 AM   
JWE

 

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Status: offline 		Thank you very much Dixie, but I do have all that information presently. It is not particularly relevant at this point, since CHS does not subdivide classes into individual ship graphics, and I have chosen to use the class leader as an exemplar in order to present the project to Halsey. I dashed off the images, very quickly, as a means to show how CHS might be 'slicked up'. If the project proceeds, who knows what particular ship might be chosen as the exemplar.

JWE

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Post #: 305
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/12/2007 9:46:43 AM   
Akos Gergely

 

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Status: offline 		Very nice arts. Where did you get these from Dixie? Any more of these there? Thnx

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Post #: 306
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/12/2007 10:41:09 PM   
Halsey

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Thank you very much Dixie, but I do have all that information presently. It is not particularly relevant at this point, since CHS does not subdivide classes into individual ship graphics, and I have chosen to use the class leader as an exemplar in order to present the project to Halsey. I dashed off the images, very quickly, as a means to show how CHS might be 'slicked up'. If the project proceeds, who knows what particular ship might be chosen as the exemplar.

JWE


In my interpretation, I chose the final refit as the main bitmap for capital ships.

Though there are players out there that like the pre-war style.



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Post #: 307
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/12/2007 10:58:27 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Thank you very much Dixie, but I do have all that information presently. It is not particularly relevant at this point, since CHS does not subdivide classes into individual ship graphics, and I have chosen to use the class leader as an exemplar in order to present the project to Halsey. I dashed off the images, very quickly, as a means to show how CHS might be 'slicked up'. If the project proceeds, who knows what particular ship might be chosen as the exemplar.

JWE


In my interpretation, I chose the final refit as the main bitmap for capital ships.

Though there are players out there that like the pre-war style.




I prefer later refits for my ship sides. Most of the pre-war BBs spend a lot of time in the repair yards before seeing action after PH, so there's not really much need for pre-war art after Dec 41.


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Post #: 308
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/13/2007 12:27:08 AM   
Halsey

 

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Status: offline 		That's the way I see it too.

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Post #: 309
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/13/2007 1:04:13 AM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

That's the way I see it too.


Got your PM; agree completely; I'll send the list along.

I'm not in love with the PH configurations either. Unfortunately, in making a package for the general community, I don't have the luxury of picking and choosing; so, if CHS has a PH BB as the baseline, then (if I'm providing the art) I have to do a PH BB as the baseline.

The bitmap list is just how things are presently called out in CHS. Understood that a change in things will require a mod. I bet Andrew would appreciate it if someone were to clean this up and give him a solid basis for changes.

Anyway, list is coming. JWE

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Post #: 310
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/13/2007 3:45:05 AM   
Cathartes

 

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Status: offline 		I'm just going to chime in on the ship discussion: I would use the Pearl Harbor era version and the refit version even if I had to switch it out manually, later in the game, myself.

Now for something completely different... CHS Allied planeside anyday.






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< Message edited by Cathartes -- 3/13/2007 3:46:19 AM >

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Post #: 311
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/13/2007 9:14:22 AM   
Akos Gergely

 

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Status: offline 		I second to that Cathartes! I'm just doing exactly that with my own custom-built ships side database. What's more in my own mod I added extra graphics so when a ship upgrades it switches graphics automatically.

Are you planning to release the past 1943 plane sides for the stock game as well ? :D


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Post #: 312
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/13/2007 9:35:46 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Thank you very much Dixie, but I do have all that information presently. It is not particularly relevant at this point, since CHS does not subdivide classes into individual ship graphics, and I have chosen to use the class leader as an exemplar in order to present the project to Halsey. I dashed off the images, very quickly, as a means to show how CHS might be 'slicked up'. If the project proceeds, who knows what particular ship might be chosen as the exemplar.

JWE


I don't see why CHS could not have different ship graphics for classes as they upgrade, if the bitmaps are available in the standard CHS ship set.

Andrew

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Post #: 313
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/13/2007 10:46:46 PM   
TOMLABEL


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cathartes

I'm just going to chime in on the ship discussion: I would use the Pearl Harbor era version and the refit version even if I had to switch it out manually, later in the game, myself.

Now for something completely different... CHS Allied planeside anyday.








It may be easier to just add the new refit bitmap to the art file as a AnSide/AnShip 4XX series and point the upgrade slot in the database to the new bitmap number. I've coded alot of new artwork for paintschemes and upgrades for capital ships this way.

TOMLABEL

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Post #: 314
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/14/2007 8:43:51 AM   
Mifune


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Status: offline 		"point the upgrade slot in the database to the new bitmap number" RHS uses this methodology with many ships and their upgrades.

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Post #: 315
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/14/2007 1:41:34 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		It's not like it's very difficult to simply assign a new bitmap to a new upgrade. The tricky bit is getting a good shipside...

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Post #: 316
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/14/2007 6:08:21 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

I don't see why CHS could not have different ship graphics for classes as they upgrade, if the bitmaps are available in the standard CHS ship set.

Andrew


It already does for many US BBs, CAs, CLs, & DDs. The confusion is how they are organized.

i.e., Nevada starts out at bitmap 177 and upgrades 3 times; the upgrade slots point to bitmaps 403, 404, 405. However, she only had one structurally significant change from her PH config; a major modernization at Bremerton during 1942. The rest is more and more 20s and 40s.

Similar with many of the rest of the BBs, CAs & DDs. Makes it really hard to figure out what goes in all those extra bitmaps. The other thing is that using 4 bitmaps for Nevada, for example, takes up bitmap positions that could be used elsewhere.

That is why I made the suggestion that someone look into "slicking up" the database. All the parts are there, already, just require a bit of reassembly.

JWE

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Post #: 317
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/14/2007 8:49:34 PM   
Dino


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Status: offline 		How about giving upgraded ships some other form of distinction (since upgrades themselves are not very "distinguishable").

Maybe some discrete camo...or different hue...or add a flag?

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Post #: 318
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/15/2007 6:43:52 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dino

How about giving upgraded ships some other form of distinction (since upgrades themselves are not very "distinguishable").

Maybe some discrete camo...or different hue...or add a flag?



I think the more effective way might be to reorganize the class database, so that ship upgrades only change bitmaps when there is a visible structural change to silhouette.

This has certain advantages: it reduces the number of used bitmaps by eliminating duplication and/or marginal image changes; it allows for better utilization of the number sequences; and, ideally, it frees-up a number group that can be reserved for modding.

If, say, all of the Allied numbers from 0001 to 0100 were unused, then those numbers would be available for mods that use different images of personal preference. For instance, BB Nevada would go thru its 3 upgrades but have only 1 bitmap change; a modder could use a couple of the free numbers to add images of Nevada in various paint schemes to go along with the other 2 upgrades. That way everyone gets something.

The database remains nominal, with PH images, then '42 refit images (if applicable), then '43 refit images (if applicable). Modders can then either substitute their own images and/or make additional images with the knowledge that there will be a certain amount of open space.

JWE

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Post #: 319
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/15/2007 9:00:48 PM   
JWE

 

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Status: offline 		Some detail on the above:

Numbers are rough counts, not dispositive.
From 100, ending at 479; 345 used bitmap numbers; 34 open bitmap numbers; 379 total

127 - baseline bitmaps for warships, CV down thru DD
123 - baseline bitmaps for ‘other’ classes
24 - baseline bitmaps for SS

274 – baseline bitmaps
105 – bitmaps available for structural upgrades.

Several (many) of the baseline classes do not require upgrade bitmaps because they are later war additions and do not change appearance; certain upgrades (London rebuild, for example) are already included in the baselines; the vast majority of ‘other’ classes do not require upgrade bitmaps because they do not change appearance; there is much repetition in the ‘other’ classes and they require way fewer than 123 baseline positions.

Bottom line, I would guess 250 baseline images and 130 upgrade images. There are 150 warships and subs, of which maybe 100 would need an upgrade image (75 more likely), of those maybe 10-15 would need 2 upgrade images.

There’s your baselines, your 100-130 upgrade images, and the entire bitmap range between 0001 and 0100 open and available for some pretty dense ‘paint job’ and ‘never were’ additions.

Doing this would make standardizing the art set sooo much easier. Thoughts??

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Post #: 320
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/16/2007 6:29:34 AM   
TOMLABEL


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Some detail on the above:

Numbers are rough counts, not dispositive.
From 100, ending at 479; 345 used bitmap numbers; 34 open bitmap numbers; 379 total

127 - baseline bitmaps for warships, CV down thru DD
123 - baseline bitmaps for ‘other’ classes
24 - baseline bitmaps for SS

274 – baseline bitmaps
105 – bitmaps available for structural upgrades.

Several (many) of the baseline classes do not require upgrade bitmaps because they are later war additions and do not change appearance; certain upgrades (London rebuild, for example) are already included in the baselines; the vast majority of ‘other’ classes do not require upgrade bitmaps because they do not change appearance; there is much repetition in the ‘other’ classes and they require way fewer than 123 baseline positions.

Bottom line, I would guess 250 baseline images and 130 upgrade images. There are 150 warships and subs, of which maybe 100 would need an upgrade image (75 more likely), of those maybe 10-15 would need 2 upgrade images.

There’s your baselines, your 100-130 upgrade images, and the entire bitmap range between 0001 and 0100 open and available for some pretty dense ‘paint job’ and ‘never were’ additions.

Doing this would make standardizing the art set sooo much easier. Thoughts??



I think this approach is the most practical and similar to what I've done in my mods.

TOMLABEL

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Post #: 321
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/22/2007 10:15:56 AM   
Akos Gergely

 

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Status: offline 		Hi Dixie,

any news on these sides displayed in post #292?

Cheers,

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Post #: 322
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/22/2007 11:17:15 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Did everyone simply forget the work done by TankerAce (Justin Prince) when CHS was in its infancy? He made a scenario/art pack where all Allied ships whose profile changed during a refit got a new bitmap image and bitmap number to go along with the new class slot. He even at one point added a camouflage version.

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Post #: 323
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/22/2007 11:59:08 AM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: csatahajos

Hi Dixie,

any news on these sides displayed in post #292?

Cheers,


They've been uploaded to the scaled ship art page

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Post #: 324
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/22/2007 12:39:01 PM   
Akos Gergely

 

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Status: offline 		Yep I mean I could only find the RN ones but not the US Navy ships....and from the RN files (the last link under scaled ships page) some of the ones pictured in your post are missing (Vanguard, Hermes etc.). Perhaps I'm just looking for the wrong file, but could you please point me exactly.

Thanks


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Post #: 325
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/22/2007 12:56:32 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: csatahajos

Yep I mean I could only find the RN ones but not the US Navy ships....and from the RN files (the last link under scaled ships page) some of the ones pictured in your post are missing (Vanguard, Hermes etc.). Perhaps I'm just looking for the wrong file, but could you please point me exactly.

Thanks



Have you checked since I posted? The page was only updated today, and the index page hasn't been done yet.




EDIT: If you're having problems still, or you want the files quicker here they are
Royal Navy v.2
US Navy v.1

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< Message edited by Dixie -- 3/22/2007 12:58:20 PM >

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Post #: 326
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/22/2007 6:47:07 PM   
Cathartes

 

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Status: offline 		Nice work on the Royal Navy ship sides!

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Post #: 327
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/22/2007 7:17:58 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cathartes

Nice work on the Royal Navy ship sides!


Thanks mate. How're the planes doing?

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Post #: 328
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/23/2007 12:41:54 AM   
Halsey

 

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Status: offline 		TankerAce did a stand alone scenario for the stock game.
I stated it earlier in the thread as Subchasers, my mistake.
It was done so long ago I didn't remember who did the scenario and graphics.
It details all bitmaps with upraded ships.

It is the base for my CHS graphics upgrade.
So you'll see the upgraded bitmaps, though they will not appear in the game.

Have you looked at my package?
You'll see them included.


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Post #: 329
RE: Standardized Artwork Set - 3/24/2007 5:37:14 AM   
Cathartes

 

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quote:

Thanks mate. How're the planes doing?


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< Message edited by Cathartes -- 3/24/2007 7:09:00 PM >

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Post #: 330
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