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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> RE: Features for ToaW 4

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RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/20/2007 2:33:35 AM

JAMiAM

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar

Let me open another front: Mechanical Attrition

What's that?! We all know the force pestilence level event effect:

The Force Pestilence Level
This value represents a force�s vulnerability to disease losses, and is limited to the range 0 to 50. It sets a percentage of equipment lost by every unit in the force on every turn. Infantry, horse transport and cavalry equipment is lost at this rate, while all other types of equipment are lost at half the rate.

Now if we had something similar that would just affect motorised equipment this could be usefull to simulate various conditions: Desert warfare (forces that are relatively unprepared for the conditions, sandstorms, heat, even vehicle columns dispersing dust), Mud (Russian 'Rasputitsa', or as another example Anzio (terrible ground conditions for vehicles off roads)), extreme cold (though this is already somehow covered by the pestilence level).

What do you think?

I think it's a good idea, and something that I couldn't see why Norm left out in the first place. Of course, we need to make it adjustable over the course of the scenario with events while we're at it (along with most all the other unit/formation/force modifiers).

< Message edited by JAMiAM -- 4/20/2007 2:34:38 AM >

(in reply to Telumar)

Post #: 91

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/20/2007 2:49:33 AM

Telumar

Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

I think it's a good idea, and something that I couldn't see why Norm left out in the first place. Of course, we need to make it adjustable over the course of the scenario with events while we're at it (along with most all the other unit/formation/force modifiers).

I already had the opportunity to talk about it (among other things) with Ralph in the GS chat and he was quite optimistic about it, but i don't know if he remembers. Too bad you couldn't be there. From my amateur's view it should be possible for a future TOAW 3 patch, but time being the problem..

For TOAW 4 - what do you think about editable terrain and/or movement, combat, supply modifiers etc. allocatable on an individual hex basis?

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Post #: 92

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/20/2007 2:56:59 AM

JAMiAM

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Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar
For TOAW 4 - what do you think about editable terrain and/or movement, combat, supply modifiers etc. allocatable on an individual hex basis?

We'll see what we can pull off...if we are actually working on a TOAW IV, that is...

(in reply to Telumar)

Post #: 93

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/20/2007 3:36:18 AM

SMK-at-work

Posts: 3396
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From: New Zealand
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And if you could do that then I suspect it wouldn't be too much extra bother to have a dynamic hex movement capability/penalty system to make MP units actually useful too.....if you were working on ToaW IV of course.....

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 94

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/21/2007 10:06:55 AM

Scout_Pilot

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Joined: 2/11/2007
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How about "Mechanical Attrition" on an "equipment type" basis? For example, the first German Tiger and Panther tanks were rushed into service and often suffered mechanical breakdowns before they could even entered a battle. Another example would be "old" model tanks that are "worn out" (over half of Soviet T-28 tanks broke down in first days of Barbarossa). Yes, I know that a certain amount of equipment is lost when any unit "moves" but it is a very low percentage and (to best of my knowledge) applied randomly to all equipment in the moving unit.

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(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 95

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/21/2007 3:05:45 PM

m5000.2006

Posts: 168
Joined: 11/10/2006
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how about showing a unit's actual morale so that players can see it? according to the manual it is used in the calculations, it's a weighted average of proficiency, readiness and supply level, but it's not visible anywhere

it wouldn't be a big change since it wouldn't really change anything practically, but it'd be nice to know units' morale, if it was displayed somewhere, would make it feel more real, closer to actual combat

it's just one of the most important factors affecting the outcome of combat, it's difficult to find a military book or a film where it's not mentioned at least a couple of times, and yet in toaw you can't see it anywhere

it could be displayed as numbers, or in a different way e.g. high, good, low

< Message edited by m5000.2006 -- 4/21/2007 3:09:09 PM >

_____________________________

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"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't much care where �" said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.
LC

(in reply to Scout_Pilot)

Post #: 96

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/21/2007 4:14:14 PM

hueglin

Posts: 297
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Kingston, ON, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: saintsup

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

2/ The ability to allocate and transfer units between formations

... and at least two levels of formation

I'd say at least 3 levels of command with the ability to set command radius based on comms eqpt and proficiency. That way you could simulate: bde/div/corps HQ with bns as primary unit types, div/corps/army HQ with bdes as primary unit type or corps/army/army gp HQ with divs as primary unit type.

I'd like to have the ability to drop and drag units between different HQs in a "command structure" panel (This would also be used to set up the OOB in the scenario editor). Unit proficiency would increase the longer a unit remained under the same HQ and would take a minor hit whenever it was moved to a new HQ.

There should also be individual commanders with skill levels that can be switched between HQs (like War in the Pacific). That way you can really simulate some of the command changes that happen during conflicts - and have the opportunity for excellent commanders to be killed.

The command area to me is the one weakness in this otherwise great game.

(in reply to saintsup)

Post #: 97

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/21/2007 4:34:26 PM

m5000.2006

Posts: 168
Joined: 11/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hueglin

[...]The command area to me is the one weakness in this otherwise great game.

yes, among other things, in toaw it's possible to spread your formation as much as you like without any communication/control/command penalties at all... in barbarossa, e.g. you can send one formation regiment to Lenningrad, another one to Rostov, while your hq is sitting in Brest, and you still retain complete control, no penalties at all

this is obviously wrong but i think this flexibility results from the fact that you can't modify formations in toaw, detach or attach units, etc

< Message edited by m5000.2006 -- 4/21/2007 4:37:50 PM >

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Post #: 98

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/21/2007 4:46:17 PM

a white rabbit

Posts: 2366
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: ..under deconstruction..6N124E..
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar

Let me open another front: Mechanical Attrition

What's that?! We all know the force pestilence level event effect:

The Force Pestilence Level
This value represents a force�s vulnerability to disease losses, and is limited to the range 0 to 50. It sets a percentage of equipment lost by every unit in the force on every turn. Infantry, horse transport and cavalry equipment is lost at this rate, while all other types of equipment are lost at half the rate.

Now if we had something similar that would just affect motorised equipment this could be usefull to simulate various conditions: Desert warfare (forces that are relatively unprepared for the conditions, sandstorms, heat, even vehicle columns dispersing dust), Mud (Russian 'Rasputitsa', or as another example Anzio (terrible ground conditions for vehicles off roads)), extreme cold (though this is already somehow covered by the pestilence level).

What do you think?

I think it's a good idea, and something that I couldn't see why Norm left out in the first place. Of course, we need to make it adjustable over the course of the scenario with events while we're at it (along with most all the other unit/formation/force modifiers).

..wot 'e said..

..in-game access to the above is almost-elephants...

_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..be�n'tus all..?,

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 99

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/21/2007 10:47:41 PM

Major Disaster

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

Retreat Reaction Option.

I think that it is sometimes a bit too easy to surround an isolated unit in that the unit cannot react to the enemy as it undertakes to surround him by occupying all six adjacent hexes. I think that a programmed retreat reaction option would help fix this where the defending player could�in his turn have designated two to three adjacent retreat� react hexes to his location (H1, H2, H3 with H1 being the highest priorty and H3 the lowest). The player could then specify a mobile defense posture with a threshold of 1 or 2. For the threshold of 2 if an enemy during his movement phase� occupies� two of the retreat hexes then the unit reacts and attempts to retreat to the clear retreat hex. If the threshold is set to 1 then if any one of the retreats hexes is occupied the defender retreats to the higer prrioty of the two unoccupied retreat hexes (say if H1 is occupied then the defender would choose H2 over H3). This would make it a bit harder to surround a unit in that the unit can retreat a hex when it's retreat is starting to be cut off.�

Also, (and perhaps optionally) a zone of control might count as a half a hex so that if a retreat threshold 1 is set and two (or all three) of the retreat hexes are occupied with enemy units/ZOC by a move then the defending unit would then attempt a react retreat into the highest priority retreat hex (with an enemy ZOC lowering the priority of the retreat hex by�1.5 ( the extra .5 so there will be no ties) such that a H1 retreat hex occupied by an enemy �ZOC would be treated as a H2.5 and thus would be lower priority than a H2 that has no enemy ZOC). Also, perhaps this option could be automateically invoked when the minimum loss option is seletcted for a defender with the three retreat hexes being defined to default by some algorithm (with the option of the player chaging the default selections).

< Message edited by Major Disaster -- 4/21/2007 11:06:45 PM >

(in reply to a white rabbit)

Post #: 100

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/24/2007 1:02:38 AM

JJKettunen

Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline

Hexside rivers! Hexside rivers! My kingdom for hexside rivers!

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Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

(in reply to Major Disaster)

Post #: 101

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/24/2007 1:24:03 AM

Monkeys Brain

Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Hexside rivers! Hexside rivers! My kingdom for hexside rivers!

LOL

Good to see old Finish guy still around!!

Do no let those Russian hordes broke the Manerheim line, eh

Monkeys Brain aka Bloodstar

(in reply to JJKettunen)

Post #: 102

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/24/2007 4:12:19 PM

Karri

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
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I want to be able to upgrade equipment. You know, for example to equip a tank brigade with new tanks.

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)

Post #: 103

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/24/2007 7:10:29 PM

Dave Ferguson

Posts: 302
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: Kent, United Kingdom
Status: offline

for upgrading equipment a 'replace equipment' event would be good, e.g.

On event trigger in unit X replace equipment A with equipment B, equipment A max is set to zero?

plus

On event trigger swop replacement equipment type B for equipment type A

(in reply to Karri)

Post #: 104

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/29/2007 7:45:35 AM

JMass

Posts: 2364
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke
Hexside rivers! Hexside rivers! My kingdom for hexside rivers!

I subscrive too!

Another feature I need in toaw 4 is the fully compatibility with Linux (by wine).

_____________________________

"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern!"Generaloberst Heinz Wilhelm Guderian

My boardgames collection: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/JMass?own=1&subtype=boardgame&ff=1

(in reply to JJKettunen)

Post #: 105

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/29/2007 8:23:29 AM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
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Hey Ralph.........how about rewriting TOAW in JAVA. Then it could run anywhere.

(in reply to JMass)

Post #: 106

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/29/2007 8:41:46 AM

rhinobones

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke
Hexside rivers! Hexside rivers! My kingdom for hexside rivers!

Add to that a WEGO capability and the game is perfect.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to JJKettunen)

Post #: 107

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/29/2007 7:02:04 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JMass

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke
Hexside rivers! Hexside rivers! My kingdom for hexside rivers!

I subscrive too!

Another feature I need in toaw 4 is the fully compatibility with Linux (by wine).

What doesn't work?

_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to JMass)

Post #: 108

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/29/2007 7:13:16 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Hey Ralph.........how about rewriting TOAW in JAVA.� Then it could run anywhere.

Never happen. I've done Java before.

I have looked into a .Net version. It might run under Mono, which would open up a lot of systems. I don't know when I'll pursue it further though. It would take maybe a week to isolate things the way they'd need to be, and a LOT of testing.

http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

Ralph

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Post #: 109

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/29/2007 9:30:07 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
Never happen. I've done Java before.

I'm in the process of learning JAVA even as we speak and I'm wondering what it is you don't like about JAVA. Is it that it's too slow or something?

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 110

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/30/2007 2:14:13 AM

JMass

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Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: JMass

Another feature I need in toaw 4 is the fully compatibility with Linux (by wine).

What doesn't work?

No problem to install toaw in Linux, then I can launch it normally but when I click on a button it suddenly crashes. I have tested toaw 3 using wine or cedega but it doesn't work.

< Message edited by JMass -- 4/30/2007 2:15:06 AM >

_____________________________

"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern!"Generaloberst Heinz Wilhelm Guderian

My boardgames collection: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/JMass?own=1&subtype=boardgame&ff=1

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 111

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/30/2007 3:41:02 AM

SMK-at-work

Posts: 3396
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From: New Zealand
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My son has tried running it in Wine for me too, but it doesn't work.

My only experience with a java game was really, really slooooooowwww........for a long time until they did something to speed it up to being just slow.� Adn a memory hog - basic graphics and it needs 512mb to run - not a consumer friendly item!! :(

< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 4/30/2007 3:43:07 AM >

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Post #: 112

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 4/30/2007 5:45:18 AM

JAMiAM

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For those trying to get TOAW III under Linux, try reading this thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1211390&mpage=1 and maybe pm'ing or emailing superdave56 for instructions and tips. He seemed to be able to get the game to work.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)

Post #: 113

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 5/1/2007 4:50:24 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
Never happen. I've done Java before.

I'm in the process of learning JAVA even as we speak and I'm wondering what it is you don't like about JAVA. Is it that it's too slow or something?

Larry,
At the time I was doing Java, 2.0 had just been released. I found that designing UIs was much more cumbersome than using other languages. For some time, my cross-platform work has been Windows XP and NT. I'll have to add Vista to the mix soon. Cross-platform is necessary for web site programming, but not necessary for normal programming for me.

I have nothing against Java, it's just that for what I need to do, C++, C# or Flash are better choices.

Ralph

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Post #: 114

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 5/1/2007 5:46:31 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
For those trying to get TOAW III under Linux, try reading this thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1211390&mpage=1 and maybe pm'ing or emailing superdave56 for instructions and tips. He seemed to be able to get the game to work.

Thanks James, I'd missed that. I think I can modify the code easily for the next patch to fix that in TOAW.

We'll need to retest the buttons, map scrolling and micromap scrolling, but I didn't notice any impact.

_____________________________

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Post #: 115

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 5/1/2007 6:06:48 AM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
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From: Colorado
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Ralph, I caught you on the forums! how goes the debug on the fite stuff?

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 116

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 5/1/2007 7:20:16 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
Ralph, I caught you on the forums! how goes the debug on the fite stuff?

I see the event that caused it. I'll fix it, and verify that there aren't any other stray events. It will take me a day or two.

_____________________________

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Post #: 117

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 5/1/2007 9:37:52 AM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

Ralph, I figured you would get it done, really just wanted to bring to light how much you SUPPORT THIS GAME! not all developers and individuals care like the TOAW3 folks, ok shameless plug but this is a geat community,, thanks again to all.

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 118

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 5/1/2007 12:34:42 PM

JMass

Posts: 2364
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
For those trying to get TOAW III under Linux, try reading this thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1211390&mpage=1 and maybe pm'ing or emailing superdave56 for instructions and tips. He seemed to be able to get the game to work.

Thanks James, I'd missed that. I think I can modify the code easily for the next patch to fix that in TOAW.

A very good new!

_____________________________

"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern!"Generaloberst Heinz Wilhelm Guderian

My boardgames collection: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/JMass?own=1&subtype=boardgame&ff=1

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 119

RE: Features for ToaW 4 - 5/1/2007 5:09:31 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
Ralph, I caught you on the forums! how goes the debug on the fite stuff?

I see the event that caused it. I'll fix it, and verify that there aren't any other stray events. It will take me a day or two.

I'm confused by the above statement. Was the problem with FitE or was there a residual problem with TOAW that we didn't find last time?

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 120

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RE: Features for ToaW 4