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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/16/2007 8:40:37 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Good news! Toed (Johan) has finished writing six swedish units so I am going to post one or two of them for your pleasure.

Things are going forward even if not at the pace I would have wished.

- Jesper

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 211
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/16/2007 7:43:40 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks to Mziln for volounteering to writing more write-ups. He has yet to pick a country but I am sure he will do a good job.

In a month or so I will cleanse the list on page two of people who are no longer active. So if you are on the list and still want to keep doing write-ups and have not mailed me in a long while please communicate your status. I am aware that some people do research and write little by little and that is fine, I just need to know that things are moving forward.

- Jesper

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 212
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 3:32:31 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Forza Mziln! A very nice writeup!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by capitan -- 3/18/2007 3:41:19 PM >

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 213
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 3:41:17 PM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline 		Don't forget:

AOI - Africa Orientale Italiana – Italian East Africa

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 214
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 3:43:54 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Some statistics:

54 allies units have writeups. That is about 11 percent of the total number of allied landunits.

99 axis units have writeups. That is about 30 percent of the total number of axis landunits.

21 neutral units have writeups. That is about 13 percent of the total number of neutral landunits.

In total we have 174 writeups which amounts to about 17 percent of the total of all landunits

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 215
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 3:44:48 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

Don't forget:

AOI - Africa Orientale Italiana – Italian East Africa


Ah I put this in the "header" but I will add it in the actual writeup too.

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 216
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 4:12:23 PM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline 		The Ethiopian and Eritrea units are also part of Italian East Africa.

Italy conquered and occupied Ethiopia in 1935 and eventually created Italian East Africa out of newly-occupied Ethiopia and the Italian colonies of Eritrea and Italian Somaliland. Italian troops in Italian East Africa numbered about 250,000, most of them Local East African askaris recruited by the Italian Army.

Since all the units are Territorials there is no way to invade British Somaliland with them.

< Message edited by Mziln -- 3/18/2007 4:18:42 PM >

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 217
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 4:56:43 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln
The Ethiopian and Eritrea units are also part of Italian East Africa.

Italy conquered and occupied Ethiopia in 1935 and eventually created Italian East Africa out of newly-occupied Ethiopia and the Italian colonies of Eritrea and Italian Somaliland. Italian troops in Italian East Africa numbered about 250,000, most of them Local East African askaris recruited by the Italian Army.

Since all the units are Territorials there is no way to invade British Somaliland with them.

Why is there no way ?
Nothing prevents the Italian Territorials from Italian East Africa to enter British Somaliland.

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 218
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 5:52:50 PM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline 		I doubt Italy will want to spend the production to take British Somaliland.

Combat

Add 1 to your die roll for a land attack against a hex in which the only defending land units are territorials (in addition to any modifier for face-down units). Subtract 1 from your die roll for a land attack if all attacking units are territorials.

=> ~ +2 Non territorials attacking territorials.
=> ~ -2 Territorials attacking non territorials

Movement

In addition to the restrictions on minor units leaving their home country (see 19.4), territorials may only leave their home country if they are controlled by an active major power. For movement purposes, territorial units treat mountain, forest and jungle terrain in their home country as clear. They pay normal movement costs outside their home country.

19.4 Minor country units

Restrictions on use

Minor country units can move and fight outside their home country. However, you can only move a minor country land or aircraft unit outside the home country controlled by the minor, if half or more of its land and aircraft units are currently inside its home country (exception: Rumania becomes a full Axis ally ~ see 19.6.2).

< Message edited by Mziln -- 3/18/2007 6:05:42 PM >

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 219
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 6:20:47 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		Generaly Berbera is empty, so properly placed TERR can just walk in.
This is common practice IMO.
It is sure that if a CW unit defends Berbera, there is pretty much nothing that the Italian TERR can do, especially because there are chances that they are oos.

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 220
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 8:53:06 PM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline 		True, but the Global War sceanerio shows 2 territorials start in Ethiopia or Italian Somaliland. That would give you a 40% chance of having 2 territorials start in the same home country. And be able to move out of their home country (not counting the AOI unit).

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 221
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 9:10:29 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

True, but the Global War sceanerio shows 2 territorials start in Ethiopia or Italian Somaliland. That would give you a 40% chance of having 2 territorials start in the same home country. And be able to move out of their home country (not counting the AOI unit).

Mzlin, you seem to consider that you need 2 units in a minor country to be able to have one of them leave the country. This is not true.
If a minor country only as 1 unit, it can go out of the country.

Quote (that you quoted yourself above) :
*******************************************
19.4 Minor country units
Restrictions on use
Minor country units can move and fight outside their home country. However, you can only move a minor country land or aircraft unit outside the home country controlled by the minor, if half or more of its land and aircraft units are currently inside its home country (exception: Rumania becomes a full Axis ally ~ see 19.6.2).
*******************************************

So, if you take the case of the country having only 1 unit.
This unit is in the country. At this right moment, there is "half or more of its land and aircraft units are currently inside its home country", because there is one out of a total of one.
So it satisfy the rule and can leave the country.

If you have a country having 2 units.
One is inside , the other is outside. Just before the moment that the unit that is inside begin to move to go outside the country, the rule is satisfied too, because there is 1 outside out of a total of 2.

So we have :
1 total unit --> 1 can go out.
2 total units --> 2 can go out.
3 total units --> 2 can go out.
4 total units --> 3 can go out (when there are 2 out, a 3rd can leave too as the rule is satisfied).
5 total units --> 3 can go out.
6 total units --> 4 can go out (when there are 3 out, a 4th can leave too as the rule is satisfied).
7 total units --> 4 can go out.
etc..

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 222
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 9:53:49 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln
True, but the Global War sceanerio shows 2 territorials start in Ethiopia or Italian Somaliland. That would give you a 40% chance of having 2 territorials start in the same home country. And be able to move out of their home country (not counting the AOI unit).

Mzlin, you seem to consider that you need 2 units in a minor country to be able to have one of them leave the country. This is not true.
If a minor country only as 1 unit, it can go out of the country.

Quote (that you quoted yourself above) :
*******************************************
19.4 Minor country units
Restrictions on use
Minor country units can move and fight outside their home country. However, you can only move a minor country land or aircraft unit outside the home country controlled by the minor, if half or more of its land and aircraft units are currently inside its home country (exception: Rumania becomes a full Axis ally ~ see 19.6.2).
*******************************************

So, if you take the case of the country having only 1 unit.
This unit is in the country. At this right moment, there is "half or more of its land and aircraft units are currently inside its home country", because there is one out of a total of one.
So it satisfy the rule and can leave the country.

If you have a country having 2 units.
One is inside , the other is outside. Just before the moment that the unit that is inside begin to move to go outside the country, the rule is satisfied too, because there is 1 outside out of a total of 2.

So we have :
1 total unit --> 1 can go out.
2 total units --> 2 can go out.
3 total units --> 2 can go out.
4 total units --> 3 can go out (when there are 2 out, a 3rd can leave too as the rule is satisfied).
5 total units --> 3 can go out.
6 total units --> 4 can go out (when there are 3 out, a 4th can leave too as the rule is satisfied).
7 total units --> 4 can go out.
etc..

Hmm, I need to check how the code handles this.

Your interpretation is certainly correct, but I had read the rule the way Mziln had, which is that you had to leave at least 1/2 the units in-country. This WIF rule is quite unusual.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 223
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 10:49:32 PM   
Frederyck


Posts: 427
Joined: 12/7/2005
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline 		This rule is one of those that is most often misunderstood, along with the very very strange ruling about how to get Partisans:

"13.1
You put a partisan unit in the country if the result [of the die roll] is less than or equal to that country’s (modified) partisan number. If it is at least 11 less (my bold face), place 2 partisan units in the country. If it is at least 21 less, place 3 partisan units in the country. If the roll exceeds the partisan number, there is no effect."

It is the "at least 11 or less" that causes problems. If a country's modified partisan value is:
1 -> 10% chance of 1 partisan.
2 -> 20% chance of 1 partisan.
...
9 -> 90% chance of 1 partisan.
10 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. No chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 10 is -1.
11 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. No chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 11 is 0 (zero).
12 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. 10% chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 12 is 1.

The logical progression would (to me) be that you would count "at least 10 less", giving a modified partisan number of 11 a 10% chance of getting 2 partisans and so on, but that is not how the rule is written. Although I do believe that many people play that way.

< Message edited by Frederyck -- 3/18/2007 10:51:51 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 224
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 11:06:01 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		I believe we always played it the wrong way then.

(in reply to Frederyck)
Post #: 225
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/18/2007 11:19:59 PM   
Frederyck


Posts: 427
Joined: 12/7/2005
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline 		We have always house-ruled away the "11" in favour of a "10". It just seems more logical and is probably what is really meant by the rule.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 226
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/29/2007 9:32:44 AM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Adam has now officially taken on the Russians, even if he has done a lot of work on them earlier. Thanks for taking on this oh so important nation mate. We are awaiting your submissions! 

(in reply to Frederyck)
Post #: 227
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/22/2007 2:54:42 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		An update on the write-ups

People are sporadically sending me some write-ups and some new blood has volounteered so things are moving along, albeit quite slowly. Adam is doing his usual swell job and the other day I recieved 8 more write-ups on the Russians (plus some edits on previous submissions).

In total there are 182 write-ups for units out of 999 in total. It is fun to write but very time-consuming as information is scarce at best for many countries. If you feel like pitching in please have a look at page 2 in this thread for an up to date list of countries available.

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 228
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/22/2007 3:41:42 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		I missed to add the 8 new units Toed to the page 2 update. I will post a sceenshot of a swede and a russian later on.

10 more write-ups to hit the magic number 200!

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 229
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/22/2007 5:25:47 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks MichaelBaldur for finishing the Danish! :-) 

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 230
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/22/2007 8:22:25 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		As promised some screenies (but the russians will have to wait since I am having some trouble with the layout)






Attachment (1)

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 231
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/22/2007 8:23:07 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		More swedes




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 232
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/22/2007 8:24:00 PM   
jesperpehrson


Posts: 1052
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		And finally the single dane






Attachment (1)

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 233
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/22/2007 11:39:33 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Lovely.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to jesperpehrson)
Post #: 234
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/23/2007 3:13:38 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		It should be "scuttled their ships", not "scuttled there ships"

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 235
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/23/2007 8:07:39 AM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		A few danish "ships" at sea actually made it to Sweden as a minor note.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 4/23/2007 8:11:54 AM >

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 236
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/24/2007 12:49:00 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frederyck

This rule is one of those that is most often misunderstood, along with the very very strange ruling about how to get Partisans:

"13.1
You put a partisan unit in the country if the result [of the die roll] is less than or equal to that country’s (modified) partisan number. If it is at least 11 less (my bold face), place 2 partisan units in the country. If it is at least 21 less, place 3 partisan units in the country. If the roll exceeds the partisan number, there is no effect."

It is the "at least 11 or less" that causes problems. If a country's modified partisan value is:
1 -> 10% chance of 1 partisan.
2 -> 20% chance of 1 partisan.
...
9 -> 90% chance of 1 partisan.
10 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. No chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 10 is -1.
11 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. No chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 11 is 0 (zero).
12 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. 10% chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 12 is 1.

The logical progression would (to me) be that you would count "at least 10 less", giving a modified partisan number of 11 a 10% chance of getting 2 partisans and so on, but that is not how the rule is written. Although I do believe that many people play that way.


I agree that its written confusingly, but I don't get your interpretation of "at least 11 less". In reading RAW, I conclude the word "modified" in "modified partisan number" is only in reference to halving the partisan number for an unconquered country at war the same year. The addition for the garrison and subtraction for already existing partisans are applied to the partisan die roll - not the partisan number.

A recent example from our game in progress: USSR came up as subject to partisans. It is not the first year of war involving the USSR, so the (modified) Partisan Number is 30. One partisan was already there and the Axis garrison was 19. A '1' was rolled. Add 19, subtract 1 yields a die roll of 19. 19 is at least 11 less than 30 so the Russians got two more partisans. I don't see the problem with the difference of 11 and I think the table in your post is incorrect concerning 11s. (And 21s no doubt.)

(in reply to Frederyck)
Post #: 237
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/24/2007 8:03:12 AM   
michaelbaldur


Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline 		alot of ships made it for swedish or allied port. but it was minor naval ships and merchant shipping. 2 naval ships was in green land and 4 ships escaped to sweden.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 238
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/24/2007 11:39:27 PM   
Frederyck


Posts: 427
Joined: 12/7/2005
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frederyck

This rule is one of those that is most often misunderstood, along with the very very strange ruling about how to get Partisans:

"13.1
You put a partisan unit in the country if the result [of the die roll] is less than or equal to that country’s (modified) partisan number. If it is at least 11 less (my bold face), place 2 partisan units in the country. If it is at least 21 less, place 3 partisan units in the country. If the roll exceeds the partisan number, there is no effect."

It is the "at least 11 or less" that causes problems. If a country's modified partisan value is:
1 -> 10% chance of 1 partisan.
2 -> 20% chance of 1 partisan.
...
9 -> 90% chance of 1 partisan.
10 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. No chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 10 is -1.
11 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. No chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 11 is 0 (zero).
12 -> 1 guaranteed partisan. 10% chance of a second partisan as "at least 11 less" than 12 is 1.

The logical progression would (to me) be that you would count "at least 10 less", giving a modified partisan number of 11 a 10% chance of getting 2 partisans and so on, but that is not how the rule is written. Although I do believe that many people play that way.


I agree that its written confusingly, but I don't get your interpretation of "at least 11 less". In reading RAW, I conclude the word "modified" in "modified partisan number" is only in reference to halving the partisan number for an unconquered country at war the same year. The addition for the garrison and subtraction for already existing partisans are applied to the partisan die roll - not the partisan number.

A recent example from our game in progress: USSR came up as subject to partisans. It is not the first year of war involving the USSR, so the (modified) Partisan Number is 30. One partisan was already there and the Axis garrison was 19. A '1' was rolled. Add 19, subtract 1 yields a die roll of 19. 19 is at least 11 less than 30 so the Russians got two more partisans. I don't see the problem with the difference of 11 and I think the table in your post is incorrect concerning 11s. (And 21s no doubt.)


I agree with your interpretation of "modified". But that doesn't invalidate my problem with the ruling. For arguments sake, let's say that there are no (zero) garrison units in a country that is eligible for partisans, and that there are no partisans present either. Also, let the country in question have been declared war on several years ago.

* If the partisan number for this country is 9 according to the map (Yugoslavia), you now have 90% chance of getting a partisan in that country (Ie, a roll equal or lower to the partisan number).

* If the partisan number was 10 according to the map (Italy), there would be 100% chance of getting a single partisan, and no chance of a second.

* If the partisan number was 11 according to the map (doesn't exist, I think, but that is beside the point), you would still have 100% chance of getting 1 partisan and NO chance of getting 2 partisans. To get 2 partisans in this case with no garrison units and no already present partisans you would need to roll "at least 11 less" than 11. And that is zero which cannot be rolled.

I think this is wrong. The wording ought to be "at least 10 less". That would mean that a partisan value of 11 (with no modifiers) would yield 1 partisan 90% of the time (roll=2-10) and 2 partisans 10% of the time (roll=1 which is at least 10 less than 11). If the wording is kept the chances of getting partisans is not linear, which I believe the designers meant it to be.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 239
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 4/25/2007 7:24:07 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		One could just as easily assume the anomaly is with the getting of one partisan because of the wording "equal or less", FREX a partisan number of 1 (which Burma used to be, but now is a 2). But originally there would be no way to get a partisan in Burma even with a garrison of zero, had the wording been just: "less than the partisan number".

So this could in fact be what the designers intended.

(in reply to Frederyck)
Post #: 240
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