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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> P38G altitude ? Page: [1]
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P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 2:33:32 PM   
jeanbart_MF


Posts: 72
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		bonjour guys !
I'm planing a massive air strike from dacca to akyab, using B24D (alt 23000), B25 (alt 21000) and an escort with P38G lightning(alt ??).
We are in november 1942 and the CAP is quite strong (zero, Tojo, oscar with "good" pilots), PBEM, patch 1.801.
I don't know wich altitude to set my P38G on , these planes are new for me and I have only a little of them in the pool.
thank you !

_____________________________

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
Post #: 1
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 2:35:38 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeanbart

bonjour guys !
I'm planing a massive air strike from dacca to akyab, using B24D (alt 23000), B25 (alt 21000) and an escort with P38G lightning(alt ??).
We are in november 1942 and the CAP is quite strong (zero, Tojo, oscar with "good" pilots), PBEM, patch 1.801.
I don't know wich altitude to set my P38G on , these planes are new for me and I have only a little of them in the pool.
thank you !


The altitude will always be something like 3000 feet above whatever altitude the bombers are flying at... the altitude you set for the fighters doesn't matter in this regards - it is just for the ones (that don't go) who are flying CAP.

(in reply to jeanbart_MF)
Post #: 2
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 3:03:19 PM   
jeanbart_MF


Posts: 72
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		thank you rtrapasso:
so the higher the better for the bombers, the escort will fly higher and the P38 will be more effective. right ?

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"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

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Post #: 3
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 3:08:41 PM   
rtrapasso


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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeanbart

thank you rtrapasso:
so the higher the better for the bombers, the escort will fly higher and the P38 will be more effective. right ?


Well, the P-38s will more likely have a height advantage over CAP and any height advantage over enemy fighters is advantageous (unless maybe you are a P-39 or P-400 pilot).

Relative aircraft altitude performance (i.e. P-38s being better than, say Zeros IRL) are not well modelled, so don't count on that factor.

Of course, the higher you go, the less effective your bombers will be.

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Post #: 4
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 3:10:21 PM   
jeanbart_MF


Posts: 72
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		my goal is to kill japanese pilots.

_____________________________

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

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Post #: 5
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 3:31:14 PM   
rtrapasso


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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeanbart

my goal is to kill japanese pilots.



In that case, fly a high-altitude sweep...

Be aware, if you are playing stock, P-38s sometimes won't perform like they did in real life... P-38s IRL usually fought outnumbered and did pretty well... in the game, if they fight outnumbered, they will suffer badly (in my experience)... especially if large (total) numbers of aircraft are involved. If the total numbers are small, things usually go ok.

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Post #: 6
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 3:38:39 PM   
jeanbart_MF


Posts: 72
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		this is my problem .
Akyab is protected by a lot of fighters, and up to now I failed to find the solution. My P40E are too far away and hurricane, spitfire have short legs...

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Post #: 7
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 3:42:20 PM   
rtrapasso


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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeanbart

this is my problem .
Akyab is protected by a lot of fighters, and up to now I failed to find the solution. My P40E are too far away and hurricane, spitfire have short legs...


Well, if you fly high enough over CAP, sometimes it won't intercept (depending on fighter climb rates, weather, Radar, height differentials, etc.) - so you could go the high-altitude bombing route and hope to start destroying aircraft on the ground.

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Post #: 8
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 4:03:59 PM   
jeanbart_MF


Posts: 72
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		sorry to waste your time but do this mean that I have to set my bombers on "airfield attack" mission ?

_____________________________

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

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Post #: 9
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 4:07:08 PM   
rtrapasso


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Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeanbart

sorry to waste your time but do this mean that I have to set my bombers on "airfield attack" mission ?



If you want to get those aircraft still sitting on the ground - yes.

Use port attack if you are after disbanded ships or knock out Coastal Defense guns/units. Use ground attack if you are trying to disrupt ground troops.

(in reply to jeanbart_MF)
Post #: 10
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 4:50:37 PM   
stldiver


Posts: 724
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: West Palm Beach, USA
Status: offline 		If you want to eventually claim air dominance use airfield attack.

If he truly has a lot of planes at the airfield some of them will be damaged due to normal wear and tear and the bombing will damage them as well as the base.

Thus the next days if the base is damaged more planes will suffer damage due to takeoff and landing thus increasing the cycle.

Also, don't be in a rush, Nov 42, you probably don't have a stockpile of replacement P38's yet, it is better to build up a larger force and go in one sweep when you have the replacements to recover.

I have learned the ability to do one or two strikes then wait a week to recover due to inadaquate reserves was much less effective then waiting a couple of more weeks for numerical advantage and reserves to continue the fight.

Remember if you cannot jump on him and break his back, then its probably better to wait.
At this stage he can recover faster then you can recover the P38's

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Post #: 11
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 5:54:55 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		1.  Use crappier fighters as escort.  Escorts will take higher losses, compared to defending CAP.  You should be able to use P-40s or whatever to escort your bombers (even Buffalos).  The Hurris, Spits, and Mohawks won't have the range.  But again, I don't put my best fighters on escort, because CAP will get a defensive bonus and your escorts are just going to get chewed up anyway.  Escort your bombers yes, but not with the P-38s.
2.  Put your P-38s on sweep at about 30k.  With your bombers flying 20 - 25k, his fighters -should- be between 20k and 30k.  If his CAP is lower, it won't intercept your bombers very well.  Higher than 30k, and they also won't be as effective at intercpeting your bombers.  That being the case (presuming he's following best course of action, and his CAP is at about 30k), go ahead and set your P-38s to sweep at 30k to 32k.  If he's at altitude to effectively engage your bombers, your sweep will be at an effective altitude to maul his CAP.

Sweep in front of bombers is fairly effective 1..2 punch.  Presuming your sweep doesn't suck, you get a round vs. his fighters.  You kill planes/pilots in the sweep round.  This weakens the CAP, and then the bombers come thru, and damage the AF.

-F-

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Post #: 12
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 6:00:40 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

1.  Use crappier fighters as escort.  Escorts will take higher losses, compared to defending CAP.  You should be able to use P-40s or whatever to escort your bombers (even Buffalos).  The Hurris, Spits, and Mohawks won't have the range.  But again, I don't put my best fighters on escort, because CAP will get a defensive bonus and your escorts are just going to get chewed up anyway.  Escort your bombers yes, but not with the P-38s.
2.  Put your P-38s on sweep at about 30k.  With your bombers flying 20 - 25k, his fighters -should- be between 20k and 30k.  If his CAP is lower, it won't intercept your bombers very well.  Higher than 30k, and they also won't be as effective at intercpeting your bombers.  That being the case (presuming he's following best course of action, and his CAP is at about 30k), go ahead and set your P-38s to sweep at 30k to 32k.  If he's at altitude to effectively engage your bombers, your sweep will be at an effective altitude to maul his CAP.

Sweep in front of bombers is fairly effective 1..2 punch.  Presuming your sweep doesn't suck, you get a round vs. his fighters.  You kill planes/pilots in the sweep round.  This weakens the CAP, and then the bombers come thru, and damage the AF.

-F-


If you have enough P-38s, that might work... but i got the impression their numbers were limited and there were a LOT of defensive fighters.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 13
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 6:13:06 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		P-38 replacement rates is pretty good, something like 3 a day.

I personally find P-38s to be very good fighters. They are no Corsair, but have been dominant in my PBEM, even when badly outnumbered. The key of course is to have good pilots. My P-38 units have expereince in the upper 70s

I agree that if you want to kill fighters the best way to do it is a high alititude sweep. If you send your P-38s in on escort duty they will be fighting from a defensive position.

How badly are you outnumbered? If the AVG is still flying P-40Bs they should reach from Dacca also and you could fly a coordinated sweep.

One thing to keep in mind about airfield attacks is that you can only hit what is on the ground. If he has all his fithers in the air flying cap, you won't do that much damage with the bombing attack itself...although damaging the runway and support will deminish his cap the next day.

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Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

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Post #: 14
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 7:09:39 PM   
jeanbart_MF


Posts: 72
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		thank you all... I will be more carefull with my P38 !

_____________________________

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

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Post #: 15
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 7:33:54 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		As a Japanese player, I can assure you that the Allied airforce will be far more efficient if it can strike several days on a row. It may lose the first day of the battle, but then the Japanese base will be full of damaged fighters and then heavy bombers met get trough the reduced CAP and destroy all the cripples. I have suffered this fate several times.

Akyab is not linked by rail to any other base, so damaged AC can't be evacuated.

By the way Akyab is also a coastal base and you may try to bombard it with your ships.

As for using P-38, I will try first to fly sweep to Japanese bases with less defences. Their range will allow you to hit most of Burma, and then having numerical superiority will help and you pilot exp will rise. Also either Japanese fighters will have to be redeployed from Akyab, or you may find easy targets elsewhere.

Akyab is difficult to supply for the Japanese, and not a good place to fight a defensive battle in the air. Rangoon, Mandalay or Myitkyina are far more good Japanese bases IMOO.

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Post #: 16
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/9/2007 7:46:53 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I would go with the the possibility of a naval bombardment. First: recon, recon, recon!!! There should be some F5s in India. Then set up a strong bombardment TF with most (all) your British BBs and CAs. You should also have British CVs to fly CAP, so set a CV Tf to follow the BBs. Set the homeport to Chandpur or Diamond Harbour and put your Hurris and Spits there on Cap and everything that has a longer range on LRCAP over the BBs (not the CVs because then LRCAP would be less effectiv). Your short legged fighters should also reach the BBs after the bombardment so LRCAP for them could also be a possibility.

If most of his fighters are on CAP then he won´t have many for escort so if he has bombers there (???) then they won´t be well escorted and get a beating. After you nuke the base he will never recover if you continue constant bomber attacks. Been there done that!

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 17
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/16/2007 12:26:49 PM   
zhengxuacmilan

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeanbart

bonjour guys !
I'm planing a massive air strike from dacca to akyab, using B24D (alt 23000), B25 (alt 21000) and an escort with P38G lightning(alt ??).
We are in november 1942 and the CAP is quite strong (zero, Tojo, oscar with "good" pilots), PBEM, patch 1.801.
I don't know wich altitude to set my P38G on , these planes are new for me and I have only a little of them in the pool.
thank you !


Hi Jeanbart
I am curious that how did u decide the altitude of ur bombers, such 23000 or 21000 feet? What did u think about that? It is quite interesting, and seems profesional.

(in reply to jeanbart_MF)
Post #: 18
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/17/2007 4:50:58 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline 		Well I am not Jeanbart but I do that with my bombers. I don't know if the game pays attention but I try to put the more numerous easy to replace bombers (B-25) at lower altitude to take most of the CAP. I have not tested it very much though. Could just be wishful thinking.

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Post #: 19
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/17/2007 5:40:12 AM   
zhengxuacmilan

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Well, thank you Scott.
You give me a idea I never think of, yeah, it is reasonable.

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Post #: 20
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/17/2007 10:46:02 AM   
jeanbart_MF


Posts: 72
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		thanks zhengxuacmilan but it's not professional at all. 21000 is the max for the B25 and for the B24 I have started at 30000 and get lower and lower because of DCA, CAP and effectiveness off bombing.

At this time I continue with massiv raids ( I don't use wellington, quite useless), at the beginning the losses were awfull but my opponent seems to refuse the attrition battle, so I have the air superiority and I have opportunity to try several things (can't reveal here my plans).
thanks all for your advices !


_____________________________

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

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Post #: 21
RE: P38G altitude ? - 5/22/2007 2:07:14 PM   
zhengxuacmilan

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		yeah, I understand, thank you.

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Post #: 22
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