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RE: 8 July 1943: Japanese land was invaded !!!

 
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RE: 8 July 1943: Japanese land was invaded !!! - 4/29/2007 2:25:46 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

Best of luck for upcoming Paramushiro Jima operation!

BTW, the Emperor has no doubt for victory especially since Allies always move prematurely and try to strike where they shouldn't...

Joking aside I simply see no reason for such large Allied operation so close to Japan with so little support for air force (both on land and on CVs/CVLs/CVEs)... you as Japan have intact (and upgraded) KB together with air support from land bases (again especially so close to Japanese mainland)... IMHO it will be another huge Allied carnage....


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 631
RE: 8 July 1943: Japanese land was invaded !!! - 4/29/2007 4:24:45 PM   
goodboyladdie


Posts: 3469
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Rendlesham, Suffolk
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I agree. He needed to build up and be patient until he had more CVs and Hellcats. If he was going to make an early move in the North he should have done it while the KB was involved in the New Zealand operation. He would have been established by the time you got any forces up there to contest the invasion.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 632
RE: 8 July 1943: Japanese land was invaded !!! - 5/1/2007 11:28:28 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

World trembles in anticipation of news... several days have passed...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to goodboyladdie)
Post #: 633
9 July 1943: Artic storm grounds all CV aircraft - 5/1/2007 2:28:54 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
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I agree, the Allied move is too early or too late, but he was also unlucky that the KB was already sailing to the North from Japan when his ships sailed from Attu...

On the other hand he should have waited for more Hellcats.

9 July 1943

Northern Pacific

During the night 4 CA and 1 CL bombarded Paramushiro Jima, destroying 3 Dinah III, hitting 479 men and 3 guns disabled, scoring 1 hit on the airbase, 2 on supplies, 30 on runways, 4 on the port and 5 on port supplies. Two Allied TFs continued to unload troops on the beachhead. Japanese defenders fired 234 guns during the night and the night, heavily damaging an AK (probably hit by one or two 240mm shells), set on fire a DE, and hit a MSW and a CL. Allied troop losses were 3216 men, 1 gun and 3 vehicles.

At dawn, the weather was awful on the whole area and grounded most aircraft of both sides. The Kido Butai was at 240 miles west of Paramushiro Jima, the main Allied CV TF (with four CV TF) was 60 miles east of PJ, and a CVE TF off the beachhead itself. Despite having orders to follow a surface TF, all four CV TF reacted in the morning eastwards, while the CVE TF reacted twice, to the NW in the morning and to the west in the afternoon. Despite these moves, all CV TF were covered by clouds in both phases, before and after reacting. Fighters of both sides defending the CV shot down 7 enemy aircraft on naval search (3 Walrus, 3 Kingfisher and 1 TBM against 3 Alf, 2 Jake, 1 Betty and 1 Val) while a Rufe flying LRCAP from Etorofu Jima over the KB was lost to engine failure, but its pilot was saved.

During the day a damaged barge sank off Etorofu Jima while the American AP U.S. Grant that hit several mines the day before sank in the evening off the beachhead.
One of the two Japanese submarines between PJ and Attu, the I-178, reported 2 “CA” sailing east, probably the damaged Vincennes with an escort DD, but wasn’t close enough to attack. A third submarine will arrive tomorrow in this area, and five more in the next days.

Probably due to the fact that the CVE TF moved away from PJ, the transport aircraft bringing reinforcements were not intercepted and brought 350 more men, 13 guns and 1 tankette. Japanese artillery pounded the Allied troops, hitting 78 men and 2 guns. And Allied troops replied by launching a deliberate attack against the base with 61107 men, 509 guns and 105 vehicles, but failed at 0 to 1 (1241 Allied AV against 494 Japanese, adjusted to 1250 vs 1513).

In the evening the base of PJ reported damaged of 54/68/90 (airbase/runways/port), 176 able engineer squads and 456 AV. The two remaining Dinah left in the evening and were replaced by two Pete (to leave an aircraft symbol there).

At this stage of the battle, the Japanese intelligence began to have a clear view of the situation around PJ: the invasion fleet was composed of two transport TF still unloading off the beachhead, covered by 5 surface TF (built around BB or CA) and a CVE TF (that reacted today), and was covered by 4 CV TF cruising just east of PJ with a replenishment TF and a transport TF (this one might be sailing back from PJ or bringing second wave troops to build the base after its fall).
The following CV had been identified so far: Hornet, Lexington II, Essex, Indomitable, Belleau Wood. As the Lexington was sunk in the battle of Christmas Island in February 1942 with two other American CVs, the Yorktown II and the Enterprise II should be also with this fleet. Nine CV/CVL were counted, the two not identified were probably another Royal Navy CV (the Victorious?) and another CVL or Essex CV. The conclusion of the Japanese intelligence service was that this fleet was carrying between 588 and 648 aircraft, so the Kido Butai had a slight numerical advantage. It also had the edge on aircraft quality (A6M3a and A6M5 vs F4F-4), pilot experience and crew fatigue, so even when the CVE groups were added (3 CVE counted, two identied as the Sangamon and Chenango), the Kido Butai was still in a good position to win a CV battle and will remain in the area.
So the battle plan decided the day before remained in place with two changes:
1) the Kido Butai will move 60 miles NW to avoid a possible attack by an Allied surface TF
2) as transport aircraft brought most of the 10th Aviation Rgt from Hungnam to Toyohara during the day, the base now had 220 AS and was able to welcome a big concentration of Japanese aircraft. 79 Betties (one more crashed during the transfer flight), 21 Nells and 71 Oscar II gathered there. Tomorrow, the Betties will fly naval attack missions (limited to range 9, targets off PJ or east of it) escorted by the Oscars, while the Nells will fly naval search.

On Sakhalin Island, Japanese engineers expanded the airfield of Shikka to size 6. The ML squadron replied in Wakkanai resumed operations with 3 coastal ML that will lay mines off Toyohara.

35 Ki-44 arrived in Aomori from China to reinforce this front.

Central Pacific

Three of the ML based in PH sailed to Midway and will lay their mines there and then sail for Japan to then go to the Northern front.

Southern Pacific

The ML squadron based in Suva (a MLE and 4 ML) received orders to transfer to Pago-Pago. 13 000 mines had been laid off Suva during the last months, and 5 000 off Nandi.

New Guinea-New Britain- Solomon Islands

Rabaul was again attacked by 43 B-25J from Gili Gili that scored 3 hits on the airbase, 5 on supplies and 39 on runways, and did 67 casualties and disabled one gun, while Kavieng was attacked by 33 B-24D and 14 PB4Y from PM and reported 39 casualties and 1 hit on the airbase, 7 on supplies and 15 on runways. Two B-24D and a PB4Y were lost in accidents, and a F-5A Lightning was shot down by AA fire over Rabaul. Rabaul reported damage in the evening as 18/0 (airbase/runway), Kavieng reported that all damage had been repaired before the evening.

The small AK that was sent alone with 800 men of the 43rd Div from Palau to Wewak reached this base and started unloading them without being seen by Allied airmen.

A new surface TF (CA Atago and 3 DD) left Truk and sailed SW to the patrol area north of Green Island. As the other before, it will wait for bad weather and then raid Allied positions in eastern New Guinea.

Timor-DEI-Australia

The daily situation report showed the following damage to Japanese airfields: Maumere 45/0 (airbase/runway), Koepang 44/0, Dili 22/0, Lautem 52/0 (and port 11).

Burma

Myitkyina was bombed by 7 B-25J from Ledo escorted by 19 P-40E and by 40 B-24D from Imphal escorted by 19 P-40N that scored 7 hits on the airbase, 5 on supplies and 67 on the runways, disabling 70 men and 1 gun. In the mountains SE of Imphal, 51 Hurricane II from Imphal escorted by 4 Spitfire Vb tried to bomb Japanese troops but it the bad jungle-covered hill and hit nothing.

The evening report gave the airfield status as: Mandalay 40/45 (system/runway), Myitkyina 20/5, other bases undamaged. The weather forecast for tomorrow was still awful, so the raid on Kohima was again postponed. 9 Oscar II flew from Rangoon to Lashio and will fly LRCAP over Allied troops 120 miles W of Myitkyina to check if they were supplied by Allied transport aircraft.





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(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 634
RE: 9 July 1943: Artic storm grounds all CV aircraft - 5/1/2007 3:04:10 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

The world trembles again while in the cold north Pacific the big sea battle approaches!!!


quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

I agree, the Allied move is too early or too late, but he was also unlucky that the KB was already sailing to the North from Japan when his ships sailed from Attu...

On the other hand he should have waited for more Hellcats.


IMHO the key of success in long war are small steps... even the longest journeys are made of small steps...

Therefore while bold and daring actions are OK in preferable conditions (i.e. against weak/er opposition) - against well armed and prepared opponent only step-by-step (i.e. island hoping strategy with reliance on both CVs/CVEs/CVLs and land based air) is possible!

Thus (again) I see your oppoennent's latest move as very very reckless and I think it will (again) be total Allied disaster...


quote:


At this stage of the battle, the Japanese intelligence began to have a clear view of the situation around PJ: the invasion fleet was composed of two transport TF still unloading off the beachhead, covered by 5 surface TF (built around BB or CA) and a CVE TF (that reacted today), and was covered by 4 CV TF cruising just east of PJ with a replenishment TF and a transport TF (this one might be sailing back from PJ or bringing second wave troops to build the base after its fall).
The following CV had been identified so far: Hornet, Lexington II, Essex, Indomitable, Belleau Wood. As the Lexington was sunk in the battle of Christmas Island in February 1942 with two other American CVs, the Yorktown II and the Enterprise II should be also with this fleet. Nine CV/CVL were counted, the two not identified were probably another Royal Navy CV (the Victorious?) and another CVL or Essex CV. The conclusion of the Japanese intelligence service was that this fleet was carrying between 588 and 648 aircraft, so the Kido Butai had a slight numerical advantage. It also had the edge on aircraft quality (A6M3a and A6M5 vs F4F-4), pilot experience and crew fatigue, so even when the CVE groups were added (3 CVE counted, two identied as the Sangamon and Chenango), the Kido Butai was still in a good position to win a CV battle and will remain in the area.


So... he has 5x large CVs (with possible 2 more) + and 9x CVLs/CVEs if I understood you right or 9x allogether CVs/CVLs\CVEs (with possibly 2 more CVs)?

How big is your KB right now (CVs/CVLs?CVEs)?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 635
RE: 9 July 1943: Artic storm grounds all CV aircraft - 5/1/2007 3:13:42 PM   
kkoovvoo

 

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Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
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It is a bit pity that you are fighting almost on neutral ground - none of you can rely on LBAs much and distance to ports is similar too. If the base west from PJ would be built to level 3....but i know how long does it take for Japanese engineers to built SPS 0 base to level 3. Isnt there any way to take advantage of your bases nearby - sweeps by A6M3 from etoforo jima over pj - if there is airfield. Or from Tojohara at least? If pilots are skilled they should do well against F4Fs even when flying extended range mission.

_____________________________


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 636
RE: 9 July 1943: Artic storm grounds all CV aircraft - 5/1/2007 4:39:41 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline
The fact it is on LBA "Neutral ground" makes it that much more interesting.

Anxiously await the result of the big battle.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to kkoovvoo)
Post #: 637
10 July 1943: BB Fuso sunk, KB still covered by clouds - 5/3/2007 8:51:39 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
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As for LBA I have a slight advantage as my escorted bombers may reach PJ (from Toyohara or Shikka). Building the small dot west of PJ will have helped for nothing because Allied bombers from Attu will have pulverized it the same way they did with PJ, and will only allow Allied troops to have an AF in the area faster. On the other hand I should have built an AF size 2 or 3 in Etoforu Jima, but it as a SPS of 0 and I would need a lot of engineers.... that were busy elsewhere...

I was in Southern France with my family last week-end (of 4 days, with following holidays) and had time to play two turns (10 and 11 July) but no time to update my AAR. Doing a turn these days is taking me 2-3 hours, just checking everything in the combat area is doing them so long. Well, the end of the story is that I forgot the charger of my laptop there... and so had no more PC when I returned home. The charger was sent to me by snail mail but should arrive only next week (another extended week-end is coming) and all my efforts to find a compatible charger for the mean time failed, even buying one was not an option (there is no such charger in stock in Paris and the delay for ordering and receiving them is 2 weeks, either in local stores or on the Net).

So this stupid mistake will stop this game for at least one week at the most interesting time. To make you wait I will publish the AAR of the two last played days, but without pics or maps. Anyway they are interesting readings...

10 July 1943

Northern Pacific

Allied troops continued to land on Paramushiro Jima during the night and the day. Japanese defenses fired 91 shells but hit nothing. Allied landing losses were 408 men and 1 vehicle. During the night, the base was also bombarded by 3 CA, 1 CL and 6 DD that scored 4 hits on the airbase, 78 on the runways, 1 on a fuel dump and 1 on port supplies.

When the sun rose, the storm was still raging over most of the area but there was clear weather over PJ. Both the Kido Butai 240 miles WNW of PJ and the main Allied CV TF SW of it were under clouds, and both reacted (respectively eastwards and westwards) to get closer and find a hole in the cloud, but to no avail. The KB was during its move attacked by the SS Ray that fired torpedoes at the CVL Ryuho but they failed to explode. She was then chased by the 6 DD escorting her, and then by 5 DD of another CV group, but escaped after only two near-misses.

The CVE TF off PJ also reacted to the NW, so remaining under clear weather but leaving the other Allied TFs off the beachead without cover. The land-based Japanese units coming from Toyohara used this opportunity. The main group, 17 Betties escorted by 11 Oscar II, attacked the CVE TF and met a CAP of 49 F4F-4. 8 Betties, 6 Oscar and 2 Wildcats were shot down in a fierce air battle but the remaining bombers reached the Allied ships and hit with one torpedo the CVE Sangamon, setting her on fire, while losing one more Betty to AA fire. At the same time four other groups, with a total of 19 Betties and 6 Oscar II, attacked Allied ships off PJ and scored a torpedo hit on the BB USS Colorado (no big damage reported) and another on the CL HMS Emerald (last seen on fire), also attacking but missing the CL USS Boise, a DD and a LST. AA fire shot down 4 Betties while an Oscar was lost operationally.

Despite bad weather, both sides sent many aircraft on naval patrol and both sides' fighters scored many victoreis during the morning and the evening. The Japanese lost 12 aircraft (4 Val, 2 Alf, 2 Jake, 2 Dave, 1 Nell and 1 Judy) but in the afternoon a Val used well cloud cover to come near a CV TF and managed to hit the CVL Montery with her bomb. Japanese CAP scored 20 victories against Allied patrols (5 Kingfisher, 4 SBD, 4 Walrus, 3 TBF, 2 Seagull, 1 TBM and 1 Barracuda) and with the help of clouds covered efficiently the Japanese CVs.

But two other Japanese TFs were not so lucky. The Japanese reaction move in the morning had left behind the BB TF (2 BB, 1 CA, 6 CL, 6 DD) and the scout TF (1 CL, 6 DD) of the KB and in the afternoon, if clouds still covered the Japanese CV, these two TF laid exposed in clear weather when the storm quieted in their area... as it did over the main Allied CV TF. The first attack against them was launched by the CVE TF with 18 TBF escorted by 12 F4F-4 and heavily damaged the BB Fuso with two torpedoes for the loss of an Avenger to AA fire.

The Japanese TF commander yelled for help and 16 A6M3a flew trough the storms covering their CV to the area.They were able to intercept the three following Allied raids: the two first came from the main CV TF with 90 SBD, 72 TBF and 16 TBM escorted by 47 F4F-4, 11 Wildcat V and 5 F6F, followed by 32 SBD and 25 TBF escorted by 16 F4F-4, and the third came from the CVE TF again, with 8 TBF escorted by 5 F4F-4. All 16 Zeroes were shot down in these air battles and none managed to reach the bombers but they shot down 12 F4F-4, 4 Wildcat V and 1 Hellcat. So the score was finally in Japanese favor, and given the number involved it was a good indicator of the superiority of Japanese fighters. By the way the small Hellcat group involved scored no victory and suffered one loss in this first battle against Japanese fighters.
Another piece of good news was that the Allied raids came in several waves despite targeting the same TF. And a third one was that the 122 dive bombers and 121 torpedo bombers involved in these 3 raids performed very badly, scoring only 4 new torpedo hits and 29 bomb hits, but mostly on the BB where they bounced harmlessly. When he saw the sky full of incoming bombers the Japanese admiral was sure his ships were doomed. Finally the only loss was the already badly damaged BB Fuso that took 19 bombs and 3 more torpedoes, capsized and sunk. The BB Mutsu was hit by 9 bombs that only disabled a 5in gun and a torpedo that failed to do much damage, and reported in the evening damage of 3/0/17 (SYS/FLT/fires). The only other ship hit was the CL Oyodo that was hit by a bomb and reported almost no damage from it. And Japanese AA fire shot down 3 SBD, 2 TBF and 1 TBM.

The nearby scout TF was also attacked twice by airmen coming from the main Allied CV fleet, first by 29 Barracuda, 14 TBF and 7 TBM and then by 8 TBF. The British crew were better than their allies and sank the DD Kamikaze with 2 torpedoes and heavily damaged (14/55/3) the CL Abukuma with another. US crews only scored a dud on the cruiser. The only Allied loss in these raids was a Barracuda lost operationally.
The only Japanese reply in the afternoon was two small raids from Toyohara against Allied ships off PJ for a total of 7 Betties escorted by 6 Oscar II. They missed a CA and a DE and two bombers were shot down by AA fire.

As the day before, the CVE move enabled Tina transport aircraft to bring more troops of the 14th Div (400 men and 10 guns) from Wakkanai without being intercepted (even if one Tina was lost in an accident). On the ground Japanese artillery hit 20 men and 1 gun, while the Allied troops launched a new deliberate attack despite their failure the day before and were again repulsed at 0 to 1 (1140 Allied AV vs 501 Japanese, but adjusted to 393 vs 1252). Japanese losses were 175 men and 4 guns, Allied ones were heavier at 655 men, 32 guns and 1 vehicle.

The evening report in PJ reported damage of 58/89/90 (airbase/runways/port), 181 available engineer squads and 452 AV while the Allied forces were reported as 63575 men, 591 guns and 128 vehicles (AV 1142 before the attack).

Today air losses were almost even with 48 on the Allied side (39 A2A, 8 AA, 1 ops) and 51 on the Japanese one (42 A2A, 7 AA and 2 ops). The Japanese ASR service saved at least 16 pilots/crews (6 of A6M3a, 4 Betties, 2 Val, 2 floatplanes, 1 Oscar and 1 Nell), not counting the wounded, so that was a more than 30% survival rate for shot down Japanese crew today, not bad at all… for Japan. A Zero pilot, PO2 Minobe K of AI-1, scored his kills 23 and 24 and equaled the score of the best living Japanese ace (another KB pilot) but still remained way under the score of the best Japanese ace (34 kills, but this pilot was now in a British POW camp).

The estimation of the Allied CV power was raised today. It was now estimated that the Allied fleet had 9 CV (the Essex, Hornet, Indomitable, Victorious and Lexington II were identified, they were at least 2 other Essex there, the last two were supposed to be another British CV and another Essex), 2 CVL (Monterey and Belleau Wood) and 3 CVE. So the aircraft strength of this fleet was estimated to be around 800 AC. 40 had been lost until now and 20-25 were supposed to be now unavailable due to the cumulated damage on the CVE Sangamo, leaving around 740 AC vs 640 for the Kido Butai. But on the other hand a number of Allied aircraft were damaged today and Allied crew had flown for 3 of the 4 days now and should be tired while the Japanese ones were still waiting for their first action. Also the air battles today showed that Japanese crews will certainly perform better than their opponents. So the Kido Butai will remain in the area and continue to try to engage the Allied fleet.

One of the 3 Japanese submarines now patrolling between Attu and PJ reported a new Allied convoy (3+ AK, 1+ AP) sailing west, and currently at 240 miles east of PJ. This convoy was probably carrying more troops to the beachhead. Japanese SIGINT also reported more Allied ships 120 miles west of Attu. The Allied commander was probably aware now that the first wave of Allied troops will never succeed to take the base and so probably ordered more troops to be brought. The Japanese High Command, still reluctant to fight a pure CV vs CV battle (preferring letting Allied CV airmen attack first and be decimated by Japanese CAP, and then launch an attack the next day with an higher escort ratio), ordered that these troop convoys will be the number one target tomorrow. The KB will sail 120 miles north of PJ. It reacted twice in 2 days despite following a surface TF and I decide to tried something else tomorrow, the two DD that the KB will follow will be a “transport TF”. I had no problem with CV following transport TF before so maybe this time they will obey my orders…. CV airmen will have a range of 2 and so be able to engage Allied ships off PJ or east of it.

In the evening, the Mutsu TF received orders to sail to Toyohara to replenish AA ammunition and refuel. The damaged CL Abukuma will sail to Sapporo under escort by two DDs. But before sailing westwards, this force and the scout TF formed three small surface raiding groups that were ordered to sweep the waters east of PJ tonight. The CA Chokai will do this 180 miles east of the base, 3 DD 120 miles east and the CL Kuma and a DD 60 miles east. Their goal will be to hit crippled retreating ships, for example the CVE Sangamon (hit twice in the last 3 days), or the new Allied convoy. Then before dawn the will flee towards to Marcus Island or Shikka, hoping to be out of range of Allied CV when the sun rose or that Japanese CV will draw Allied airmen away from them.

The LBA units in Toyohara will continue their attacks tomorrow. The 3 Betty Daitais engaged today lost 15 bombers and were reduced to 16 available AC and 26 too damaged to fly. They were ordered to fly naval search and the other bomber units (26 Betties and 20 Nells) will fly naval attack under escort by the remaining 64 Oscar II.

Reinforcements continued to reach this new frontline. Four instructors (with 75-80 exp) and 5 trainees (with 40-45 exp) detached from a training Daitai in Mukden arrived aboard a CV of the KB to replace today losses. Also a full Daitai of Zeroes arrived in Ominato from China, having stopped its operational training before the end (exp 58).
In Ominato, the 51st Aviation Unit and the HQ of the 25th Air Flotilla (transferred from Home Defence Command to Northern Force for 90 PP) boarded an AP convoy in some hours and the convoy left in the evening for Sapporo. Most of the units concentrated in Ominato had flown to Toyohara yesterday or left today: 36 Tonies flew to Sapporo and 35 Nick and 9 Rufes to Toyohara to fly CAP over the base.
A convoy left Osaka for Ominato. It was formed with 4 AR and ten warships (3 CL and 7 DD) having been patched quickly after receiving their 7/43 upgrades and now having system damage at 3 or less.

Central Pacific

The last men of the 21st Div boarded transports in the port of Kona and the convoy left in the evening this base to bring it back to Japan to reinforce the defenses of Sakhalin Island.

Southern Pacific

The convoy that had evacuated the 56th Bde and the 24th Eng Rgt reached its first stop since Auckland, Funafuti Island, and was ordered to continue northwards and to return to Japan, where these troops will also be used on the Northern front.

New Guinea-New Britain- Solomon Islands

The first Japanese transport that brought men of the 43rd Div to Wewak had gone unnoticed and was now on the way back. Another transport started to load troops in Palau and will follow her, but this time it won’t be a small AK but a 3000-ton AP.

SRA

Five ASW ships arrived in Soerabaja and will escort to Singapore the CA Suzuya that will undergo an upgrade here.
A convoy loaded 10k resources in Toboali and will bring them to Singapore.

Burma

The only Allied air raid was an attack by 22 Lysander I from Kohima escorted by 6 Spitfire Vb against the 12th NLF 60 miles SW of this base, hitting 20 men.

A Japanese aircraft reported two AP off Chandpur. Suspicions rose again that Allied troops were preparing an amphibious operation in this area. It was decided to attack this TF with all available warships. That wasn’t much: 2 CA and 1 CL anchored off Georgetown, and 3 DD on ASW patrol in Malacca Straits. All six were ordered to sail to Victoria Point to refuel here and then sail north to raid Chandpur.

The evening report gave the airfield status as: Mandalay 40/36 (system/runway), other bases undamaged. The garrison of Myitkyina had started to rebuild fortifications (level 8, 4%).

China

A training mission was flown from Wuhan against troops NW of Changsha by 24 A6M3a and hit 26 Chinese without loss.

On the ground, all Japanese troops near Kunming received orders to march back to Kweiyang, as remaining there will be useless. The other part of the Southern China Army advanced east of Kweiyang and reached the Chinese lines 120 miles of this city. Japanese troops (5.33 Div, 1 Tk Rgt, 2 ART, 2 HQ) will attack tomorrow the 9 Chinese units facing them with air support from Nanning, Wuhan and Nanchang (for a total of 104 bombers and 71 fighters used as fighter-bombers).
More north two regiments of the 26th Japanese division were 120 miles E of Chungking in positions allowing them to keep an eye on the Chungking-Changsha road, that was empty and undefended. One of them received orders to march to the SW to cut the road and stop the supplies coming from the Chinese capital to the Chinese forces in Central China.
These last forces were composed of 37 units, but the aim of confusing them by advancing at the same time from Kweiyang in the west and from Wuhan in the east succeeded. Now only 15 of these units were facing Japanese troops (9 east of Kweiyang and 6 in Changsha) and were outnumbered in both places. If the other units moved to one side or the other, I will then attack the side they left.

Japan

In the evening, a convoy of empty AP returning to Tokyo was tracked 240 miles ENE of Tori Shima by the SS USS Paddle, but she was seen and chased by the escort (6 PG). One dropped depth charges but missed and she escaped without damage.

(in reply to denisonh)
Post #: 638
RE: 10 July 1943: BB Fuso sunk, KB still covered by clouds - 5/3/2007 9:15:12 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

The estimation of the Allied CV power was raised today. It was now estimated that the Allied fleet had 9 CV (the Essex, Hornet, Indomitable, Victorious and Lexington II were identified, they were at least 2 other Essex there, the last two were supposed to be another British CV and another Essex), 2 CVL (Monterey and Belleau Wood) and 3 CVE. So the aircraft strength of this fleet was estimated to be around 800 AC. 40 had been lost until now and 20-25 were supposed to be now unavailable due to the cumulated damage on the CVE Sangamo, leaving around 740 AC vs 640 for the Kido Butai. But on the other hand a number of Allied aircraft were damaged today and Allied crew had flown for 3 of the 4 days now and should be tired while the Japanese ones were still waiting for their first action. Also the air battles today showed that Japanese crews will certainly perform better than their opponents. So the Kido Butai will remain in the area and continue to try to engage the Allied fleet.


Darn... this will be much much closer han any of us expected... the only lucky thing is that he didn't wait for his fighter upgrade...

The world will continue to trembe in anticipation of news from the Pacific north!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 639
11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Japanes... - 5/4/2007 3:10:41 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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11 July 1943

Northern Pacific

The three surface TF sent east of PJ during the night were far less successful than hoped. The CA Chokai and the 3 DD sent respectively 180 and 120 miles east of the base found no target. The third TF had a bad start when the SS USS Seahorse attacked it 120 miles W of PJ and torpedoed the CL Kuma, setting her on fire, then evading the depth charges launched by her only escort, the DD Makinami, that scored only a near miss. These two ships anyway continued to the planned area and there met a DD of four American DD. The Allied crews curious to see what this burning ship was were surprised when it began firing at them but the battle was deceiptive for both sides. In two separate actions between the two small Tf, the DD Makinami was hit by 3 shells and set on fire, while several shells bounced on the Kuma without doing much damage. On the US side, the DD Foote was hit twice and set on fire, the DD La Valette and Braine were hit once each and not heavily damaged.
Both sides then retired. The same US DD TF met in the morning the SS I-19 360 miles WSW of PJ and chased it. The only intact DD, the USS Sims, scored two hits and 5 near misses with Mk 9 depth charges on the Japanese submarine, heavily damaging her (51/75/0) (by the way I forgot to say yesterday that the I-6, heavily damaged some days ago north of Amchitka Island by two Allied aircraft, had sunk south of the Aleutians). The three Japanese raiding TF met no more Allied submarines but didn’t run as fast as planned and were in range of Allied aircraft at dawn… but Allied airmen had something else to do.

Because today at last weather was good on the whole area and the CV of both sides were only 120 miles apart. The Kido Butai was 120 miles north of Paramushiro Jima, the main Allied CV fleet 60 miles east of it and the CVE TF just of the beachhead. Only the latter reacted and moved NW (probably to have more maneuver room). Patrols of both sides continued to identify enemy ships and to suffer heavy losses to enemy CAP.
It is difficult to give precise figures as the losses in the CV battle today were very high for both sides, but my estimation was that Allied CAP scored 15 victories against patrol aircraft (5 Pete, 3 Val, 2 Jill, 2 Dave, 1 Betty, 1 Dinah and 1 Glen) and lost a Wildcat V in an accident. Another Val was shot down by AA fire during a patrol but other identified two new CVL not yet reported, the Cowpens and the Independence. The Japanese CAP was better and shot down 19 patrol aircraft (6 SDB, 6 Kingfisher, 2 TBF, 2 Mariner, 1 Barracuda, 1 Walrus and 1 Seagull) and lost an A6M3a in an accident. Another Kingfisher was shot down by AA fire when it flew too close of a Japanese ship.

And then the CV battle started…. the first since August 1942.

In the morning the Allied CV TF managed to send a well coordinated raid and all units arrived at the same time near the Kido Butai, concentrating on one CV TF. 103 SBD, 70 TBF, 27 Barracuda and 16 TBM flew this raid under escort by 65 F4F-4, 12 Wildcat V and 6 F6F. They were intercepted by a CAP of 176 A6M3a and 28 A6M5 that performed very well. Better aircraft (expect the handful of F6F), better experience and less fatigue really helped the Japanese pilots that suffered 28 losses in this first attack (27 A6M3a and 1 A6M5) but shot down 210 Allied aircraft (64 F4F-4, 56 TBF, 36 SBD, 22 Barracuda, 14 TBM, 12 Wildcat V and 6 F6F)! Tens of Allied bomber crews turned back under the fierce attacks of the Zeroes and finally only 15 (8 TBF, 5 Barracuda and 2 TBM) reached the Japanese ships and attacked several CVs but scored no hit, losing one more TBF to AA fire.

The Japanese airmen attacked two Allied CV TF in the morning and one of the two raids get split in two. What saved them from a major disaster was that the first raid to reach the target was the biggest and was very well escorted. I had also hesitated a lot as putting my CAP level at 60 or 70% and finally decided for 60, and this probably did the difference between a slaughter for Japanese airmen and what happened (that you will maybe call a slaughter too, but it could have been worse).

This first raid targeted a TF built around the CV USS Lexington II and HMS Indomitable and the CVL USS Independence. It was flown by 79 Val and 34 Kates escorted by 85 A6M3a and 20 A6M5 and met a CAP flown by 141 F4F-4, 23 Wildcat V and 14 Hellcats. The Japanese fighters sacrificed themselves to open a way for the bombers to reach the enemy ships but also decimated the Allied fighters. Losses between fighters were roughly even: 86 for Japan (72 A6M3a and 14 A6M5) and 89 for the Allied (82 F4F-4, 5 F6F and 2 Wildcat V) but the exhausted Allied pilots stopped less than half of the Japanese bombers. 40 Vals and 10 Kates were shot down by the Allied CAP, but respectively 39 and 24 got trough and attacked the big warships in the center of the TF. They met a murderous AA fire that shot down 16 Vals and 11 Kates, but scored the first hits of the battle. The Lexington was hit by a torpedo and 2 bombs and set on fire, the Indomitable was hit by a bomb that didn’t pierce the armoured bridge but destroyed an AA gun position and the CVL Independence and two BB (Indiana and Massachusetts) were attacked but missed.
A small part of this Japanese attack group arrived late with 18 Val and 15 Kates escorted by 11 A6M3a. What remained of the Allied CAP (59 F4F-4, 21 Wildcat V and 9 F6F) was unable to stop them even if it shot down 18 Japanese aircraft (7 A6M3a, 7 Kate and 4 Val) for the loss of 9 F4F-4. AA fire then shot down exactly half of the remaining aircraft, 7 of the 14 Val and 4 of the 8 Kates, but the Lexington was hit again by a bomb and was now reported as being heavily damaged. Two more bombs hit the Massachusetts but without doing much damage, and the Indomitable dodged the torpedoes fired against her.
A smaller Japanese group attacked another Allied CV TF with 12 Kate and 7 Val escorted by 14 A6M3a. The CAP was now flown by 48 F4F-4, 21 Wildcat V and 9 F6F that shot down 7 A6M3a, 6 Kate and 2 Val but lost 8 F4F-4 and 3 Wildcat V. Once again more than half of the Japanese fighters reached the ships. They attacked the CV Essex and the CL Denver with torpedoes and the CVL Monterey with bombs, but scored no hit and lost 3 Val and 2 Kate to AA fire.

At midday Admiral Nagumo, the commander of Kido Butai, was well confident that the battle had been won, and in fact probably become far too much overconfident because he sent 24 A6M3a on LRCAP over Paramushiro Jima on dubious reports of Allied air acivity. All that saw these pilots were some Allied recon aircraft.

And the battle was not yet over. Once again, the Allied air assault was well coordinated in the afternoon with all aircraft attacking the same Japanese CV group. A first raid came from the CVE TF with 11 TBF escorted by 12 F4F-4. The Japanese CAP had been reduced by losses, Japanese raids launched at the same time requiring escort, and stupid orders to 61 A6M3a and 17 A6M5. They shot down all 12 F4F-4 for the loss of 3 A6M3a but then destroyed only 7 of the TBF. The four that get trough attacked the CV Junyo and the BB Musashi but scored no hit and two were shot down by AA fire.
Then arrived the airmen from the main CV TF: 43 SBD, 2 TBF and 2 TBM escorted by 8 F4F-4, 3 Wildcat V and 2 F6F. Japanese CAP shot down with ease all 13 Allied fighters (only losing an A6M3a in this fight) and then attacked the Allied bombers, concentrating on the Dauntless flying at high level. 11 were shot down and the 31 survivors turned back, as in the morning. Of the four torpedo bombers only one TBF was shot down by the CAP and the 3 other attacked the CV Kaga and Junyo but again missed. AA shot down a TBM.

And that was the end of the Allied air attacks against the Kido Butai with no damage done to any ship. But it was not the end of the battle, as it was now the turn of Japanese airmen to strike enemy ships.

The Allied CAP was now reduced to 20 F4F-4, 9 Wildcat V and 6 F6F and even if Japanese attacks that arrived in scattered order they were powerful enough to overwhelm the Allied CAP.

Four waves of Japanese aircraft attacked an Allied CV TF built around the CV USS Yorktown and HMS Illustrious and the CVL Cowpens. The first wave was made of 31 Kat, 17 Judy, 9 Jill and 4 Val escorted by 46 A6M3a and 13 A6M5 and swept most of the CAP. The next waves were made of 25 Kates escorted by 2 A6M3a, 12 Vals escorted by 4 A6M3a, and finally 18 unescorted Kates. In air battles, 19 Japanese aircraft (12 A6M3a, 2 A6M5, 2 Val, 1 Kate, 1 Judy and 1 Jill) and 26 Allied (14 F4F-4, 7 Wildcat and 5 F6F) were shot down. So 113 Japanese attack aircraft reached the TF… and were decimated by AA fire that shot down 42 Kate, 6 Jill, 5 Val and 3 Judy around this TF alone. But all three Allied CV were hit. The CVL Cowpens was heavily damaged by two torpedoes, the Illustrious was set on fire by two torpedoes (and also was hit by two other that didn’t explode) and the Yorktown took a torpedo and two bombs but still seemed not seriously damaged when she was last seen.

Two other small raids attacked other CV groups with 15 Vals escorted by 4 A6M3a and then 9 Kates. The few remaining Allieds fighters didn’t managed to intercept them and two more F4F-4 were bounced and shot down by the Zeroes. AA fire continued to shot down about half of the attacking Japanese aircraft, in this case 10 Val and 5 Kate, but the CVL Monterey was damaged by a bomb and two near-misses (hits not penetrating the belt armor), and the CV Essex and the CVL Princeton were each hit by a torpedo.

And so this day of CV battle ended with a Japanese costly but real success:
_ Allied losses were 421 aircraft (in this battle, 433 overall for the day), including 415 A2A, 5 AA and 1 ops. Lost were 201 F4F-4, 71 TBF, 53 SBD, 28 Wildcat V, 23 Barracuda, 18 F6F, 16 TBM, 7 Kingfisher, 2 Mariner, 1 Seagull and 1 Walrus. The CV Lexington II and CVL Cowpens were heavily damaged, while the CV Essex, Illustrious and Yorktown II and the CVL Princeton were maybe hit seriously enough to be out of the battle and probably out of the war for some months, and the CVL Monterey and Indomitable were hit but remained operational. At least five other Allied CV were still intact: the CV Hornet and Enterprise II, an unidentified British CV (the Victorious?) and the CVL Independence and Belleau Woord. To that may be added at least two CVE, the Chenango and Suwanee.
_ Japanese losses were 345 aircraft (again in this battle, excluding losses suffered during LBA strikes off PJ described below, 353 overall for the day), including 235 A2A, 106 AA and 4 ops. Lost were 130 A6M3a, 95 Val, 80 Kate, 17 A6M5, 7 Jill, 5 Pete, 4 Judy, 2 Jake, 2 Dave, 1 Betty, 1 Dinah II and 1 Glen. No Japanese CV was hit.

Despite the two CV forces were each in range of enemy LBA, no land-based units took part in the battle. Allied heavy bombers flew only naval search and one bombed and hit the SS I-38 300 miles east of Attu, doing medium damage (25/5/0).
On the Japanese side Toyohara-based bombers attacked ships off PJ that had been left as usual without CAP by the reacting CVE TF. A group of 21 Betties and 15 Nells escorted by 39 Oscar II attacked a convoy and scored 7 torpedo hits, sinking the LST-335 (2 hits), heavily damaging two other LST and the AP President Gardfield (hit twice) and setting on fire the CL Richmond. AA fire shot down 3 Betties and a Nell, while another Betty and an Oscar were lost operationally. A smaller group of 3 Betties escorted by 6 Oscar tried to attack the BB New Mexico but missed and 2 of the 3 bombers were shot down by AA fire.

By the way landing operation had continued during the night and the day on Paramushiro Jima. Japanese coastal defenses only fired 13 shells and hit no ship. Allied landing losses were 552 men. During the night, four British cruisers (2 CA and 2 CL) and 6 DD bombarded the base, doing 506 casualties, disabling 3 guns and scoring 5 hits on the airbase, 5 on supplies, 73 on the runways, and 1 on a fuel dump. In the morning the AP John Glenn, critically damaged by mines on the first day of the landing, sank SE of the island.

On the ground, Japanese artillery fired at Allied troops but hit nothing, while Allied didn’t attack any more. The evening report in PJ reported damage of 67/99/90 (airbase/runways/port), 182 available engineer squads and 466 AV while the Allied forces were reported as 65305 men, 593 guns and 154 vehicles (AV 1075). Japanese transport aircraft continued to bring men of the 14th Div to the base (or maybe did not fly due to the runway state, I didn’t check it this turn) and another Chutai (of 8 Topsies) arrived in the evening in Toyohara and will bring parts of the regiment of the 14th Div based here.

At sunset, the Kido Butai commander was faced with a crucial question: what to do next. His ships were intact, but he had lost half of his aircraft during the day and now only had 227 fighters (215 available) (this included the 27 Zeroes of a 58 exp operational training unit arriving in the evening from Ominato), 80 dive-bombers (62) and 78 torpedo bombers (66). The opposing side had also lost half of his aircraft, including a big part of its CV fighters, and had about half of its CV damaged enough to be out of order, but with ports size 4-5 available in Attu and Kiska, most if not all damaged CV could be saved. On the other hand, the remaining Allied CV probably had enough aircraft left to still be a threat, and the heavy bombers based in Attu may get trough the weakened Japanese CAP. So pursuing the retreating Allied ships under the umbrella of Allied LBA was not an option.

It was decided that BB and submarines will be the ones that will try to sink the damaged CV before they escaped. All Japanese CV were gathered into two CV TF (one with 190 AC and the other with 162) and the two “freed” admirals, Yamaguchi and Yamada, will each lead a TF with all available BB east of PJ to try to chase the damaged CV during the night. Today reports showed that retiring Allied ships sailed not only to Attu but also to Kiska and Amchitka and so the 6 remaining Japanese submarines were deployed on a line stretching 180 miles from north to south to cover ll these lanes. Both BB TF will sweep waters respectively 120 miles east and ESE of PJ, and retire at dawn towards Etorofu Jima. The CA Chokai will also return to these waters and sail 60 miles SE of PJ.
The KB airmen will prefer prudence rather than being reckless. Both CV TF will sail just SE of PJ. Zeroes will fly 90% CAP and attack aircraft will fly to range 3. So they may attack the most damaged and slow damaged CV, or the Allied convoys. The heavy CAP will protect the CV against the remaining SBD and the Attu-based heavy bombers. At this place, the KB will be out of range of the P-38 and with their range of 3 Japanese attack aircraft will meet no P-38 on LRCAP.
Land-based bombers in Toyohara received more aggressive orders. 81 bombers remained here, and 53 were available in the evening. All units received orders to fly naval attack to range 15, while flying 20% naval search. By the way the local engineers received the orders to expand the AF (currently size 4) to size 6.
The four Japanese ships hit today (CL Abukuma, DD Makinami and SS I-19 and I-38) all received orders to sail to various Japanese ports.

In Toyohara, the Mutsu TF was scattered. The BB herself will sail to Sapporo with an APD that happened to be here escorting two AK, while the other ships (2 CA, 4 CL and 4 DD) will sail east towards PJ under command of Adm Nishimura.
A convoy loaded 48k fuel in Takamatsu and will bring them to Ominato, where the KB will refuel after the battle.

Southern Pacific

Japanese engineers expanded the airfield of Tarawa to size 6.

New Guinea-New Britain- Solomon Islands

In the morning 8 PB4Y from PM attacked Kavieng and scored 1 hit on supplies and 6 on the runways. Rabaul was attacked in the afternoon by 32 B-25J from Gili Gili that disabled 32 men and 2 guns and scored 5 hits on the airbase, 5 on supplies and 18 on the runways for one operational loss. This base reported in the evening damage of 2/0 (airbase/runways), while Kavieng was fully repaired.

The surface raiding TF (a CA, 3 DD) sent from Truk reached its planned patrol position north of Bougainville… and as usual received orders to wait as the weather forecast for tomorrow was for clear weather. Everytime Japanese surface ships were in the area for the 3 next weeks it had been the case. Frustating…. especially because the weather was almost always rainy or stormy when they were not in position.

The three transport aircraft Chutai based in Hollandia will start tomorrow to ferry men of the 43rd Div to Wewak.

In Lunga, the Japanese engineers had almost finished to build fortifications (level 8, 98%) and a convoy of 14 AP and 6 escorts left Truk for this base. It will pick up all construction troops and bring them to other bases.

Timor-DEI-Australia

In the afternoon, Lautem was bombed by 25 B-24D from Darwin escorted by 13 P-40N that scored 1 hit on the airbase, 1 on supplies and 9 on the runway, did 46 casualties and disabled one gun. The only Allied loss was a Mariner shot down by AA fire over Kendari.

The evening report for this area gave the airfield status as: Maumere 39/0 (system/runway), Dili 6/0, Lautem 49/10/11, other bases undamaged. The garrison of Koepang had started again to build fortifications (level 6, 5%).

SRA

An ASW group was formed in Manila and left this base to patrol north of Luzon and chase the numerous Allied submarines still reported by air patrols in this area..

Burma

Allied air activity raised again to its usual level after two quiet days. Myitkyina was attacked by 6 B-25J from Ledo and 28 B-24D from Imphal escorted by 22 P-40N and 18 P-40E and reported 11 casualties, 7 hits on the airbase, 5 on supplies and 41 on the runways, and an Allied LRCAP of two Beaufighter VIC. Four units of the garrison (33rd and 104th Div, 21st and 23rd Mixed Bde) were bombed by 58 Liberator VI, 50 Beaufighter VIC, 38 Vengeance I, 29 B-17E, 29 Beaufighter Mk 21, 22 B-25J and 8 Blenheim IV from Imphal, Dacca, Kohima and Ledo escorted by 38 P-40n and 24 P-40E and lost 298 men and 14 guns. In the jungle more west, the 12th NLF was attacked and missed by 50 Hurricane II from Imphal escorted by 3 Spitfire Vb SE of this base, while 20 Lysander I from Kohima escorted by 7 Spitfire Vb attacked the 12th NLF SW of their base and hit 23 men. Allied losses during the day were 1 F-5A, 1 Beaufighter Mk 21 and 1 VIC shot down by AA fire, and one B-24D, a B-25J and a Vengeance I lost in accidents.

Japanese aircraft still reported a convoy off Chandpur. The planned raiding force was constituted in Victoria Point with 2 CA, 1 CL and 3 DD and sailed north in the evening. Tomorrow it will be 180 miles NW of Rangoon, ready to strike the next night. It will be LRCAPed by 20 A6M3a and 17 Oscar II from Rangoon but the forecast bad weather was hoped to hide them from Allied patrols (that should be reduced as most Allied bombers were used to bomb troops). By the way the same forecast of thunderstorms was the reason for another postponement of the Kohima raid by Japanese airmen. A sentai of 36 Oscar II arrived in the evening in Rangoon from Georgetown where it was protecting the warships that will raid Chandpur.

The evening report gave the airfield status as: Mandalay 40/27 (system/runway), Myitkyina 25/15, other bases undamaged. Three Allied transport aircraft (2 Dakota I, one C-47) were lost today, probably while bringing supplies to troops in Burma. The Oscar II Chutai based in Lashio reported nothing today 120 miles W of Myitkyina and will test tomorrow the Chinese Corps SE of this city. It was judged probable that Allied airmen dropped supplies to troops near Myitkyina but there were too many Allied fighters in this area to fly LRCAP.

China

The attack of the troops of the Southern China Army 120 miles east of Kweiyang (5.33 Div, 1 Tk Rgt, 2 ART, 2 HQ) didn’t receive the planned air support because of bad weather. Only 12 Oscar II from Nanchang reached the battlefield and bombed a Chinese Corps, hitting 21 men. Then Japanese troops attacked the 9 Chinese units facing them (5 Corps, 2 HQ, 2 Div) and achieved a 2 to 1 ratio (2139 AV vs 1731, adjusted to 1289 vs 451). The Chinese line was nevertheless not broken because only the two divisions were defeated and retreated eastwards, all other Chinese troops had enough fortifications to keep their positions. Japanese losses were 1226 men, 31 guns and 3 tanks, while the Chinese lost 2416 killed and wounded, around 800 prisoners (5-6 troop points) and 13 guns. The attack will continue tomorrow to defeat the remaining Chinese troops.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 640
RE: 11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Jap... - 5/4/2007 3:25:54 PM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

11 July 1943

Northern Pacific

And so this day of CV battle ended with a Japanese costly but real success:
_ Allied losses were 421 aircraft (in this battle, 433 overall for the day), including 415 A2A, 5 AA and 1 ops. Lost were 201 F4F-4, 71 TBF, 53 SBD, 28 Wildcat V, 23 Barracuda, 18 F6F, 16 TBM, 7 Kingfisher, 2 Mariner, 1 Seagull and 1 Walrus. The CV Lexington II and CVL Cowpens were heavily damaged, while the CV Essex, Illustrious and Yorktown II and the CVL Princeton were maybe hit seriously enough to be out of the battle and probably out of the war for some months, and the CVL Monterey and Indomitable were hit but remained operational. At least five other Allied CV were still intact: the CV Hornet and Enterprise II, an unidentified British CV (the Victorious?) and the CVL Independence and Belleau Woord. To that may be added at least two CVE, the Chenango and Suwanee.
_ Japanese losses were 345 aircraft (again in this battle, excluding losses suffered during LBA strikes off PJ described below, 353 overall for the day), including 235 A2A, 106 AA and 4 ops. Lost were 130 A6M3a, 95 Val, 80 Kate, 17 A6M5, 7 Jill, 5 Pete, 4 Judy, 2 Jake, 2 Dave, 1 Betty, 1 Dinah II and 1 Glen. No Japanese CV was hit.


Banzai!!!

Great success - congratulations!



IMHO your decision not to persue with CVs is prudent one and, hopefully, you can sink damaged and fleeing enemy CVs with combination of short range air operation and surface fleet!

I am sure that the emperor will, most certainly, be pleased because Japanese CVs are still intact and enemy CVs sufferend yet another defeat (not as final as before but this is year 1943 after all)... he will now (again) must pause for at least few months before another try...


Leo "Apollo11"

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(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 641
RE: 11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Jap... - 5/4/2007 4:00:03 PM   
06 Maestro


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Sake for everyone!

I thougt this was going to be "it" for the Japanese Empire-the great turning point for the Allies.

Splendid job, Admiral.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 642
RE: 11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Jap... - 5/4/2007 4:08:30 PM   
Miller


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Hi Admiral. Well done. However, why not pursue his damaged CV's?

You will never have a better chance......he can only have a handfull of F4Fs left to defend his fleet. Bare in mind also this will be the last time you can catch him before the F6F comes online in big numbers......yes his LBA will be a threat but only to your smaller carriers (500lb bombs usually bounce off the bigger CV's).

I say go for it


(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 643
RE: 11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Jap... - 5/4/2007 4:40:26 PM   
String


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Ouch.. 108 aircraft lost to flak..

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 644
RE: 11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Jap... - 5/4/2007 6:57:12 PM   
WhoCares


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Great success for Japan, I'd say!

Out of couriosity, is it possible to transfer aircraft off an overloaded CV to a land airbase? If not, I'd say you should have pursued as some of his operational CVs might have been shut down because of this.
But anyway, I can't imagine the tension of the players seeing bad weather grounding most planes two days in a row...

(in reply to String)
Post #: 645
RE: 11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Jap... - 5/4/2007 7:19:12 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Hi Admiral. Well done. However, why not pursue his damaged CV's?

You will never have a better chance......he can only have a handfull of F4Fs left to defend his fleet. Bare in mind also this will be the last time you can catch him before the F6F comes online in big numbers......yes his LBA will be a threat but only to your smaller carriers (500lb bombs usually bounce off the bigger CV's).

I say go for it


Miller, I don't know if you're used to play in 1943 or later but by this date Allied bombers will drop 1000 or 2000lb on my ships and no CV armor will be able to resist that.
A critical factor in CV success is the crew fatigue, and a good repartition of escort and CAP for factor. Too much CAP and your attack aircraft will get slaugthered, too much escort and your CV will be hit. So after a day of battle like that and with about one hundred heavy bombers and 60 P-38 in Attu & Kiska, I won't take the risk.
By the way, I have already won battles like that where I lost 50% of IJN airmen. It will take months for me to rebuild my air units, while most Allied air units will be back to strength and experience the day they will reach an Allied base.
My view of the situation is that my attack crews will be able to only sink easy targets tomorrow, and so staying more west will reduce their potential targets to the most damaged CV. Sinking 2 CV will already be a great achievement. I also don't trust anymore the reaction move of my CV and so have a security margin to stay out of range of Attu LBA.
By the way, keeping my CV force intact is for me more important than sinking some more CV. All CV I will be able to attack will be seriously damaged and so out of the war for some months, and the next months are the period I am the most interested in. Having local superiority will allow me to crush the Allied force in PJ, and that will do more to delay the Allied advance than the loss of some CV.

By the way F6F have not impressed me so far, probably because my Zero pilots were less tired and far more experienced than the Hellcat pilots.

This battle will allow the IJN to have a superiority or at least parity in CV strength until the end of 1943. Then the KB will become a "fleet in being", whose role will be to force each Allied invasion to be covered by a powerful CV force, so delaying its advance.


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

Ouch.. 108 aircraft lost to flak..



Hi, String, nice to see you again in WITP-world... Yes Allied AA is terrible, about 50% of the attack aircraft that reached Allied ships were shot down by Allied gunners.


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoCares

Out of couriosity, is it possible to transfer aircraft off an overloaded CV to a land airbase? If not, I'd say you should have pursued as some of his operational CVs might have been shut down because of this.
But anyway, I can't imagine the tension of the players seeing bad weather grounding most planes two days in a row...



The game is supposed not to overload CV with units fragments. By the way with such AC losses I don't think any Alleid CV was overloaded this evening. But anyway it is possible to transfer AC from an overloaded AC (up to 100% overloading).

As for the tension, yes it was great... and it is still great with me unable to play due to no power for my PC and two third of the Empire's BB and all of his CV engaged in operations. I will try again to find a charger tomorrow and hope I will be able to find one.

Thanks to all for support and interest

Banzai

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 646
RE: 11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Jap... - 5/5/2007 12:02:59 AM   
Miller


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I bow to your much greater experience Admiral. I am only in my second game and yet to get beyond 42 so forgive my ignorance. Seems like I would get all of the KB sunk before 43

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 647
RE: 11 July 1943: third CV battle of the war, third Jap... - 5/5/2007 3:58:29 AM   
denisonh


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Congratulations on your victory Laurent.

I agree that the Allies trying too much before converting from the F4F-4 to more useful aircraft against an expereinced Jap force may be more costly than necessary. Noetheless, well played.

I just need to make sure I don't make the same mistake about "rushing it" in our game if we make it to 43...........

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(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 648
12 July 1943: four Allied CVs sunk !!!! - 5/10/2007 1:19:33 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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12 July 1943

Northern Pacific

During the night, both BB TF sent east of Paramushiro Jima engaged several Allied CV but with widely different results.

The northern BB TF (BB Hiei, Haruna and Kirishima, CA Maya and Ashigara, 6 DD) engaged 180 miles east of Paramushiro Jima two coherent Allied CV TF, slightly damaged CV being still heavily escorted by BB, cruisers and DD. It first engaged a TF composed of the CV Indomitable, the CVL Independence, the BB Indiana and Massachusetts, 2 CLAA, 1 CL and 6 DD. Two Japanese BB opened fire on the Independence but missed her. The battle was then fought at 8000 and 10000 yards between the Allied escort and the Japanese ships, and the first won and repulsed the attack. Three destroyers, the IJN Asashio and Naganami and the USS Anthony, were seriously damaged by a torpedo hit each, three other destroyers of each side were damaged by shells while the BB Indiana was the only capital ship to suffer any real damage, when a 14in shell hit her and penetrated her armor, but was not seriously damaged.
The same Japanese TF then engaged another CV TF, the lightly damaged CV Yorktown (after a torpedo and 3 bomb hits reported yesterday) being escorted by the BB North Carolina, 3 CLAA, 1 CL and 5 DD. The fight was fought quickly with only one pass at 9000 yards before the Allied ships escaped. The Yorktown was hit by a 6in shell that bounced on her armor. The Allied escorts return fire hit the BB Kirishima, destroying her radar, and 4 DD, setting two on fire.
These two battles showed very well that Allied crews were now able to win night naval battles, and that US DD were now better than Japanese ones. Some of the IJN DD fighting this battle had 3.9in guns that were unable to penetrate the belt armor of US DD. A reorganization of the Japanese DD will be made in the near future but their main role for now will be ASW and AA escort rather than surface warships.

The southern BB TF (BB Musashi and Yamato, CA Aoba and Chikuma, 6 DD) cruised 60 miles more south and was far more lucky as it caught at sea a gaggle of damaged ships limping west and sank all of them. The first to be seen was the AP Sumter, that was dispatched in some minutes by the secondary artillery of the Yamato, while the other Japanese ships continued westwards and engaged two other cripples, the AK Indus and the DE Gilmore. The first was sunk by the Musashi and the Aoba while the DE was torpedoed by a DD and sank.
And then the TF found its dream target, the damaged CVL Cowpens with an escort DD. The latter, the USS Eaton, bravely attacked and launched torpedoes on the Musashi but the BB dodged them and replied with 18in shells. The Eaton was also gunned by both CA and two DD and quickly sank. And then both Japanese BB pounded the Cowpens with 18 and 6 in shells and sank her. Japanese radars detected two other big blips in the area and both were engaged.
The first was another damaged CVL, the Monterey, escorted by the DD Pringle. The destroyer fought bravely to try to save the carrier but was finally sunk by the concentrated fire of the Japanese ships that then surrounded the CVL and sank her with shells and torpedoes (both BB, both CA and 2 DD hit her).
The second was the CV HMS Illustrious, also badly damaged the day before, with the DD USS DeHaven as her only escort. The battle opened with a 8in hit on the CV by the Aoba. The destroyer charged the attackers and managed to hit a DD once before being sunk by the concentrated fire of 3 Japanese DD with shells and torpedoes. The main Japanese warships were at the same time pounding the Illustrious and hit her with two torpedoes, 3 18in shells and 4 8in shells, but the ship still remained afloat while the Japanese TF turned west as dawn was arriving. The British crew was so able to evacuate the wreck in good order but she sank at dawn.

To end an awful night for the Allied CV fleet and a good one for the Imperial Navy, 60 miles more east than this slaughter, another heavily damaged CV, the Lexington II was sailing under escort by one DD, the USS Beale, when she was attacked by the SS I-181 and critically hit by 2 torpedoes. The Beale found the attacker and heavily damaged her with two direct hits and 6 near-misses.

More west, the Japanese CV sailed to their new patrol spot, 60 miles SE of PJ. The CA Chokai had been ordered to sweep these waters first and found two TF of damaged ships in the area when she arrived. First she found 2 LST and the AP President Garfield sailing together. She sank the AP and hit twice an already heavily damaged LST. Then she surprised the AP Warren and scored 10 hits on her but didn’t manage to sink her. Japanese sailors reported that troops were seen above the ship (133 casualties reported in the combat report). This AP sank before dawn.

After dawn, there was some more action. 240 miles west of Attu, the I-39 saw 3 Allied cruisers but was chased by the seven DD of the escort and heavily damaged by one direct hit and 9 near-misses scored by the USS Stanly. More SW the badly damaged Lexington II managed to sail a little east during the morning but was tracked by the SS I-25 that was chased by the DD Beale before she could attack. Anyway the Lexington sank during the day. Her loss brought the body count of the day for the Allied CV fleet to 2 CV and 2 CVL with 31 aircraft aboard (17 F4F-4, 6 TBM, 4 SBD, 2 TBF, 1 Barracuda and 1 Wildcat V).

Bad weather still covered most of the area. The Japanese CV were under a new storm SE of PJ and reacted east (you can forget my theory that they won’t react if they follow a transport TF rather than a surface TF, there is apparently nothing you can do now to stop CV TF reacting…) but remained under clouds. An Allied CV TF also reacted towards the Japanese CV.

Kido Butai attack aircraft were unable to fly but Zeroes spread out around their ships and covered all Japanese TF in the area. An Allied CV TF sent a raid against the Japanese Northern BB TF but it get badly split. 26 SBD and 4 TBF lost their escort but continued and saw a Japanese TF 120 miles ESE of PJ but were then bounced by 34 A6M3a that shot down all four Avenger and 8 Dauntlesses without loss. All surviving Allied crews turned back and escaped in clouds. 60 miles more east the escort of this raid (17 F4F-4) only found 3 TBF to escort on an attack on the badly damaged DD Naganami, sailing back alone after the battle of the night. Well, she was not totally alone as 29 A6M3a were in the area and engaged the Allied airmen, shooting down 8 Wildcats and a TBF without loss. The two remaining Allied bombers then attacked the DD but missed and one was shot down by AA.
On the Japanese side the only raid sent in the morning was a small attack by 3 Betties from Toyohara against an Allied CV TF 240 miles east of PJ. Only 4 F4F-4 of VF-8 flew CAP over this area but that was enough. They shot down one Betty and the other turned back.

Storms continued in the afternoon and several attacks were cancelled by it. 12 Betties and 3 Nells were sent from Toyohara to attack the same CV TF as some hours before but all were scattered in bad weather and turned back. Six Attu-based B-17E sent to attack the Yamato&Musashi TF also didn’t find them due to clouds and turned back.
But there were enough holes in the clouds to see some action. 3 Barracuda escorted by 3 Wildcat searched the damaged DD attacked in the morning (the Naganami) 180 miles ESE of PJ, evaded 20 A6M3a patrolling in the area (along with 16 F4F-4) and attacked the ship but missed and lost a Barracuda to AA fire.
Another damaged DD, the Asashio, was in the area and was attacked by 3 PB4Y that hit her once. He radioed for help and the next wave of attackers, 16 B-24D of the 380th BG, was met by 48 A6M3a that shot down 6 bombers but lost 3 of their number to AA fire. The remaining bombers scored 6 hits on the drifting DD and sank her.
This afternoon, the KB CV sailed out of the storm but launched no attack. They were themselves the target of 12 unescorted SBD but the CAP of 48 A6M3a and 32 A6M5 quickly dispatched them. 5 Dauntlesses were shot down, the 7 remaining turned back.
Once again the only Japanese raid to find a target was flown from Toyohara. 3 Nells attacked the damaged LST-28 60 miles east of PJ and sank her with a torpedo. A Nell hit by AA fire during the attack ditched on the way home.

During the day, KB fighter pilots flew from TF to TF in bad weather and paid a high cost. To the 3 combat losses listed above should be added 5 other due to accidents and bad weather. They shot down 4 Allied aircraft on naval search (a PB4Y, a SBD, a TBF and a Walrus). Allied fighters doing the same job shot down during the day two floatplanes (a Jake and a Glen) and lost a P-38G flying LRCAP from an Aleutian base.




On Paramushiro Jima, AA fire shot down a PBM Mariner flying recon during the day, and Japanese artillery continued to pound Allied troops, hitting 10 men. The evening report in PJ reported damage of 67/96/90 (airbase/runways/port), 184 available engineer squads and 477 AV while the Allied forces were reported as 66143 men, 608 guns and 159 vehicles (AV 1093). Compared to the figures of the day before, you can see that the cratered runways (99 yesterday, 96% today) didn’t stop the Japanese transport AC to bring more troops here, but the Allied troops also saw their number and AV increase, and so probably had enough supplies for a long battle.

The Kido Butai will gather tomorrow west of PJ. Both BB TF will gather off Onnekita Jima (sp? The dot west of PJ) with the cruiser TF coming from Toyohara (former escorts of the late Fuso and of the Mutsu) and the solitary CA Chokai. Then they will be reorganized and they will pound the Allied beachhead on PJ, the numerous Seabees unit here should provide good targets for a “nuke” pounding. An Allied submarine was seen today off PJ and the KB airmen will chase her tomorrow. The CV will sail 120 miles W of PJ and the fighters (219, including 218 serviceable) will continue to fly 90% CAP except two units that will LRCAP the surface TF, while the attack aircraft (80(76) DB and 78(73) TB) will be ready to attack Allied ships, but on a reduced scale as Vals will fly 40% naval search to chase the Allied submarine. The 80 land-based bombers in Toyohara (63 serviceable) kept the same orders, naval attack at range 15 with 20% search.

The four Japanese naval units badly hit today may all survive. They were the SS I-181 (damage 64/84/0), the DD Naganami (52/52/14), the SS I-39 (50/30/0) and the DD Wakazuki (37/30/9). All were ordered to sail to Etorofu Jima, a size 3 port.
This base saw today the arrival of 9 Emilies from Shikka but will also be the base of two AR in some days. The convoy of 4 AR that left Osaka some days ago reached Ominato today and while two AR were disbanded here, the two other sailed eastwards with their escort of CLs and DDs. By the way their escort were also asked to search for submarines east of Ominato as several damaged ships will sail to this base in the next days.

Central Pacific

Japanese engineers expanded the airfield of Saipan to size 4. The challenge now will be that this airfield will never be used against Japan.

New Guinea-New Britain- Solomon Islands

In the morning 7 PB4Y from PM attacked Kavieng and scored 2 hits on the runways. Rabaul was attacked in the afternoon by 23 B-25J from Gili Gili that disabled 39 men and 1 gun and scored 5 hits on the airbase, 5 on supplies and 17 on the runways.

Allied engineers expanded the port of Gili Gili to size 3.

Timor-DEI-Australia

In the afternoon, Lautem was bombed by 26 B-24D from Darwin escorted by 15 P-40N that scored 1 hit on supplies and 2 on the runway, and did 7 casualties. A P-40N was lost in an accident.

The evening report for this area gave the airfield status as: Maumere 39/0 (system/runway), Dili 6/0, Lautem 49/10/11, other bases undamaged. The garrison of Koepang had started again to build fortifications (level 6, 5%).

SRA

The ASW group sent from Manila chased the American submarine Sunfish NW of Vigan in the evening but she escaped undamaged.

A convoy was ordered to load 112k oil in Palembang and sail to Singapore to join AK carrying resources. Another tanker convoy had arrived at Brunei two days ago and split. A part will load 45k oil in Miri, the other 27k oil in Brunei and then the convoy will gather in Miri before sailing to Japan.

Burma

There was only one Allied raid on this front: 23 Lysander I from Kohima escorted by 7 Spitfire Vb attacked the 12th NLF SW of their base and hit 45 men.

Japanese aircraft still reported the Allied convoy off Chandpur but more south the surface raiding force sailing to attack it (2 CA, 1 CL and 3 DD) was also seen by an Allied aircraft 180 miles NW of Rangoon. The commander of the TF had orders to turn back in such a case and sent a floatplane on recon to the target, where it identified the 40th Chinese Corps. The TF was not attacked by Allied aircraft during the day but one A6M3a and one Oscar II from Rangoon were lost in bad weather while LRCAPing it. The surface TF received orders to sail to Rangoon to refuel, and in the hope of drawing some Allied bombers on naval attack in the jaws of the heavy CAP here.

The evening report gave the airfield status as: Mandalay 40/18 (system/runway), other bases undamaged.

China

The attack of the troops of the Southern China Army 120 miles east of Kweiyang (5.33 Div, 1 Tk Rgt, 2 ART, 2 HQ) continued, this time with air support from Wuhan. 35 Oscar II, 27 A6M3a, 24 Ki-21 and 22 Ki-49 bombed a Chinese Corps and hit 46 men. The 7 Chinese units facing them (5 Corps, 2 HQ) again held their ground thanks to field fortifications despite a 2 to 1 ratio. Japanese losses were 1081 men, 20 guns and 4 tanks, while the Chinese lost 1742 killed and wounded and 24 guns. The attack was then stopped to leave Japanese units rest. Also 5 Chinese units were now east of the battlefield, and it was hoped more units will come that way. As soon as more will move in this direction, the Japanese troops besieging Changsha will attack.

In Canton port, a convoy loaded the HQ of the 4th Air Division and a small IJA BF and will carry both to Toyohara, Sakhalin Island.

Japan

Two convoys were created today, one to carry 21k supplies from Takamatsu to Canton, China, to support the Japanese offensive and repair Wuchow resources, and the other to carry 42k supplies from Osaka to Toyohara, the new main airfield in Sakhalin Island and one of the main bases on the new Northern front.

Both the Chitose and the Chiyoda will be released in some days when their conversion from CS to CVL will be done. After the CV battle of these last days, there was no more hurry for them (as they were late anyway) and they will be completed at normal rate (and released in 6 days). The CV Taiho was again accelerated to use the extra capacity so released.


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by AmiralLaurent -- 5/10/2007 1:21:52 AM >

(in reply to denisonh)
Post #: 649
RE: 12 July 1943: four Allied CVs sunk !!!! - 5/10/2007 10:15:28 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

Banzai!!!

Congratulations (again) on yet another victory for brave Japanese soldiers!!!


BTW, alltogether what are total Allied CV/CVL/CVE loses (sunk and damaged) for whole operation up to date?


Leo "Apollo11"

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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 650
RE: 12 July 1943: four Allied CVs sunk !!!! - 5/10/2007 10:27:04 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

I tried to do some math here...


1st Round:

Seriously damaged:
CV Lexington II
CVL Cowpens

Damaged:
CV Essex
CV Yorktown II
CV Illustrious
CV Indomitable
CVL Princeton
CVL Monterey

Undamaged:
CV Hornet
CV Enterprise II
CV Victorious (?)
CVL Independence
CVL Belleau Woord
CVE Chenango
CVE Suwanee.


2nd Round:

Sunk:
CV Lexington II
CV Illustrious
CVL Cowpens
CVL Monterey


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 651
RE: 12 July 1943: four Allied CVs sunk !!!! - 5/10/2007 1:45:09 PM   
Fishbed

 

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Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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Congratulations admiral, a really intense and formidable reading

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 652
RE: 12 July 1943: four Allied CVs sunk !!!! - 5/10/2007 1:54:51 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
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Here is my math about the Allied CV strength and fate:


Total (identified) Allied CV force:

5 fleet US CV (each with 90 AC): Enterprise II, Essex, Hornet, Lexington II, Yorktown II
3 HMS CV: Illustrious, Indomitable, Victorious (?)
5 US CVL: Belleau Woord, Cowpens, Independence, Monterey, Princeton
3 CVE : Chenango, Sangamon, Suwanee

Preliminary action (mines and LBA against US CV while KB was soaked in)

Damaged: Monterey, Sangamon
Undamaged: Enterprise II, Essex, Hornet, Lexington II, Yorktown II, Illustrious, Indomitable, Victorious (?), Belleau Woord, Cowpens, Independence, Princeton, Chenango, Suwanee

Carrier battle results

Seriously damaged: Cowpens, Illustrious, Lexington II
Damaged: Essex, Monterey, Princeton, Yorktown II (and still Sangamon)
Undamaged: Enterprise II, Hornet, Indomitable (only a starch on her paint), Victorious (?), Belleau Woord, Independence, Chenango, Suwanee

Chase of the cripples by BB and submarines

Sunk: Cowpens, Illustrious, Lexington II, Monterey

Ships needing repairs: Essex, Princeton, Sangamon, Yorktown II

Still operational:
2 fleet US CV : Enterprise II, Hornet
2 HMS CV: Indomitable, Victorious (?),
2 US CVL: Belleau Woord, Independence
2 CVE: Chenango, Suwanee

Total remaining capacity: 380-400 AC (to be compared to the 375 AC remaining aboard the KB after the battle)

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 653
RE: 12 July 1943: four Allied CVs sunk !!!! - 5/10/2007 2:18:32 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
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I'm still very disappointed that after knowing how inaccurate the entire air model is, especially the CAP, nothing has been released to rectify it in over three years. I sure hope Joe and the boys have something out soon.

Qite the battle though, even if it was bogus!

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 654
RE: 12 July 1943: four Allied CVs sunk !!!! - 5/10/2007 2:40:43 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

Here is my math about the Allied CV strength and fate:


Total (identified) Allied CV force:

5 fleet US CV (each with 90 AC): Enterprise II, Essex, Hornet, Lexington II, Yorktown II
3 HMS CV: Illustrious, Indomitable, Victorious (?)
5 US CVL: Belleau Woord, Cowpens, Independence, Monterey, Princeton
3 CVE : Chenango, Sangamon, Suwanee

Preliminary action (mines and LBA against US CV while KB was soaked in)

Damaged: Monterey, Sangamon
Undamaged: Enterprise II, Essex, Hornet, Lexington II, Yorktown II, Illustrious, Indomitable, Victorious (?), Belleau Woord, Cowpens, Independence, Princeton, Chenango, Suwanee

Carrier battle results

Seriously damaged: Cowpens, Illustrious, Lexington II
Damaged: Essex, Monterey, Princeton, Yorktown II (and still Sangamon)
Undamaged: Enterprise II, Hornet, Indomitable (only a starch on her paint), Victorious (?), Belleau Woord, Independence, Chenango, Suwanee

Chase of the cripples by BB and submarines

Sunk: Cowpens, Illustrious, Lexington II, Monterey

Ships needing repairs: Essex, Princeton, Sangamon, Yorktown II

Still operational:
2 fleet US CV : Enterprise II, Hornet
2 HMS CV: Indomitable, Victorious (?),
2 US CVL: Belleau Woord, Independence
2 CVE: Chenango, Suwanee

Total remaining capacity: 380-400 AC (to be compared to the 375 AC remaining aboard the KB after the battle)



Thanks!

How much time do you estimate your air groups on KB need to recover to their full strength?


BTW, will you try to kill landed enemy forces in coming days now that your opponenet was forced to flee with his remaining carriers?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 655
RE: 12 July 1943: four Allied CVs sunk !!!! - 5/10/2007 5:13:53 PM   
Emilio


Posts: 122
Joined: 8/1/2005
From: Valencia (Spain)
Status: offline
Hi,

Quite impressive.

If I'm not making mistakes these are the allied CV/CVL losses from the start of the war:

1st Aircraft Carrier Battle (Christmas Island). February 1942.

CV Lexington
CV Enterprise
CV Yorktown

2nd Aircraft Carrier Battle (Hawaii). July-August 1942.

CV Saratoga
CV Wasp
CV Formidable

3rd Aircraft Carrier Battle (Paramushiro Jima). July 1943.

CV Lexington II
CV Illustrious
CVL Cowpens
CVL Monterey

So 5 big US carriers are sunk (poor Lady Lex), a british carrier and 2 ligth US carriers also for no losses in the japanese side (I'm not counting CVEs here).

It seems to me that the allied player has gone to the offensive to early, either in Hawaii and in Paramushiro Jima. I think that with a few months delay, that battles, if not won by the allies had cause severe damage to the KB.

It seems that you will have the initiative in 1943. Let's wait for a 4th battle in 1944, with a stronger US Navy.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 656
13 July 1943: well-earned pause - 5/11/2007 12:30:00 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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From: Near Paris, France
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Ron, I fully agree with you that WITP A2A model is totally wrong for big battles, but I was surprised to not see total annihilation of any side in the above CV battles, maybe because both sides had comparable experience, in all cases a part of the bombers get trough. OK, the fighter losses are ridiculous, the number on CAP are ridiculous too. But there is no simple solution, if you reduce the CAP, or to be more precise if you do not allow any more the CAP to intercept an infinite number of raids, then the bombers that will be far more numerous and precise than IRL will bomb everything in sight every time. So I don't complain any more, and I play with the model we have.

Apollo, I think the KB will spend several months rebuidling air groups to full strength and updating aircraft to A6M5, Jill and Judy. Training a pilot takes me 4-6 months and most of the training units sent their pilots to KB last month and received rookies. Five new IJNAF units will arrive in some days and will be used to rebuild KB units by adding fragments to the CV units but I still will be short by about 200 experienced aircrew, I guess.
In some days the CVL Chitose and Chiyoda arrived, in 7 weeks (but it is hoped farther) the A6M5 will be available, in 11 weeks the third CV of Unryu class will be commissioned, and then KB will have a total capacity of 934 (not counting overcrowding or CVE). Late fall will see the release of the Jill and Judy. Then no more reinforcement will join the fleet before the late summer of 1944, with the Taiho and 3 other Unryu.
Until 1944, I won't use the KB for raids against convoys or Allied bases, but will keep it together to engage the (supposedly weaker) Allied CV fleet. Then the KB will become a fleet in being, that will be engaged only if the Allied CV split, or if they are away and there is a good opportunity to hit Allied convoys, or maybe an Allied base with a good kill ratio (no Corsair involved...).

Emilio, you're a real fan, are you ? Below you will find the total CV/CVL/CVE losses in the game so far. And yes, I think both Allied operations were too early, Hawai because it was just after the Suva operation but before the NZ one, and PJ because he should have waited one more month to have more Hellcats.




13 July 1943

Northern Pacific

Both fleets totally broke contact and no Allied ship was seen today by any Japanese aircraft or submarine, except at least 6 submarines off Paramushiro Jima. Whether they were here to defend the beachhead or to evacuate unit cadres was only left to guess for Japanese officers. But due to the high number of submarines off the beachhead, the bombardment run planned for this evening was cancelled. All surface ships gathered off Onnekotan Jima (sp? The base east of PJ) were reorganized into two surface TF with a total of 5 BB, 6 CA, 4 CL and 14 DD and sailed NW to wait for the Allied submarines to leave the area, or be chased by Japanese aircraft, as the KB will also remain in the area at the same spot, 120 miles NW of PJ and its DB and TB will fly extensive naval and ASW patrols to chase Allied submarines.

The only action took place on the ground when Japanese guns fired on Allied troops and hit 43 men and 3 guns. The evening report in PJ reported damage of 67/76/90 (airbase/runways/port), 185 available engineer squads and 505 AV while the Allied forces were reported as 66781 men, 615 guns and 167 vehicles (AV 1113).

Two Japanese aircraft were lost in accidents due to bad weather in the area, an A6M3a from the KB and a Tina ferrying troops from Wakkanai.

Toyohara bombers received orders to rest, except the Nell Daitai that will fly 100% naval search range 21 to try to find again Allied ships and two Betty crews that will fly recon over Attu and Kiska. An Emily from Etoforu Jima will also fly recon over Amchitka Island. By the way Japanese engineers received orders to build an airfield in this island, that had so far only a seaplane base. As more aircraft will fly naval search, the five remaining Japanese submarines east and SE of PJ received orders to patrol closer to the Japanese base to escape the Allied LBA from Attu and Kiska.

In the rear area the CL Kuma reached Etoforu Jima with damage 60/63 and was ordered to continue to Ominato after refueling. The other damaged ships still sailed westwards. In Wakkanai, the BB Mutsu left the port under escort by 3 DD and an APD and will also go to Ominato.

Central Pacific

The convoy carrying the 21st Div left Kona and sailed towards Japan via a sea point south of Marcus Island to avoid sailing north of Midway and wandering into Allied CVs (I love the way the game calculates TF path).

Southern Pacific

The ML squadron that was based in Suva for the last months reached Pago-Pago and will now operate from here, but used all few fuel available on this base. So an AK convoy was ordered to load 14k fuel in Kwajalein and will bring it to this base.

New Guinea-New Britain- Solomon Islands

In the morning 8 PB4Y from PM attacked Kavieng and scored 1 hit on supplies and 3 on the runways. Rabaul was attacked in the afternoon by 27 B-25J from Gili Gili that disabled 28 men and scored 5 hits on the airbase, 2 on supplies and 19 on the runways for one operational loss. This base reported in the evening no damage but less than 6000 supplies and three 7000-ton AK received orders in Truk port to load supplies and will sail independently to Truk, Shortlands and Lunga.

Allied engineers expanded the airfield of Goodenough Island to size 2. A Betty Chutai will bombard this base tonight.

Two small transport TF left Palau each with a Const Bn aboard and will carry them to the islands of Sawatal and Woelai to build fortifications here.

The minelayer submarine I-121 left Truk to lay a defensive minefield off Kavieng.

Timor-DEI-Australia

There was no Allied raid, but a PBM Mariner was shot down by AA fire during a recon flight over Kendari.

The evening report for this area gave the airfield status as: Maumere 33/0 (system/runway), Lautem 45/0/11, other bases undamaged. The garrison of Koepang continued to build fortifications (level 6, 16%). A convoy left Palau today for Kendari with the 23rd Eng Rgt aboard coming from the Pacific. This unit will be then flown to Timor by transport aircraft and will build fortifications here.

SRA

The CA Suzuya and her patchwork escort reached Singapore and were disbanded here. The CA went to the repair shipyard to be upgraded.

A big AK convoy left Palembang for Singapore with all resources of the first base (28k) and will load 90k more in Singapore before sailing to Japan. The big TK convoy (capacity 112) ordered to load oil yesterday in Palembang before sailing to Singapore where it will join the AK convoy sailed empty today and was recalled to Palembang.

Burma

Allied air activity raised again to its normal level. Myitkyina was attacked by 6 B-25J from Ledo escorted by 22 P-40E and reported 9 casualties, 1 hit on supplies and 11 on the runways, while in the afternoon 50 B-25C flying from Dacca (probably the air units based in Chanpdur flew back here to avoid a naval bombardment) and escorted by 14 P-40N attacked Mandalay, doing 30 casualties and scoring 4 hits on the airbase, 4 on supplies and 11 on the runways. Four units of the garrison (33rd and 104th Div, 21st and 23rd Mixed Bde) were bombed by 48 Liberator VI, 27 B-24D, 23 Vengeance I, 18 Beaufighter VIC and 16 B-17E from Imphal, Dacca and Ledo escorted by 35 P-40N and 21 P-40E and lost 150 men and 5 guns. In the jungle more west, the 12th NLF was attacked and missed again by 56 Hurricane II from Imphal escorted by 6 Spitfire Vb SE of this base. Allied losses during the day were 1 B-24D, 1 B-25C and 1 Liberator VI shot down by AA fire, and one B-17E lost in an accident.

As guessed the Allied convoy reported yesterday off Chanpur moved during the night and was reported after dawn at Diamond Harbor. The Japanese surface TF refuelled in Rangoon.

The evening report gave the airfield status as: Mandalay 51/35 (system/runway), other bases undamaged. In Myitkyina Japanese engineers began again to rebuild fortifications (level 8, 5%).

China

Chinese troops 120 miles east of Kweiyang were attacked by 34 Oscar II, 27 A6M3a, 25 Ki-49 and 22 Ki-21 from Wuhan and by 10 Oscar II from Nanchang and lost 128 men. They were then bombed by Japanese guns and lost 309 more casualties and 3 guns. East of this front, the number of Chinese units increased from 5 to 11, meaning that the reserve troops that were on the crossroads NW of Changsha moved east to reinforce this area. The troops of the Southern China Army will launch tomorrow a shock attack to break once for good the Chinese line before the reinforcements arrived.

And as soon as these Chinese reinforcements will arrive close to these Japanese troops, the 11th Japanese Army will attack in Changsha. Today the 50th Chinese Corps was bombed NW of this town by 23 Ki-51 from Wuhan and lost 71 men. This unit was the only remaining in the area to threaten the Japanese supply line from Wuhan to Changsha and the 11th Bde holding this road was divided and half of it will go to Changsha to join the attack against the city.

More north a regiment of the 27th Div that was holding some weeks ago a part of the Sian-Chungking road that was vacated recently by Japanese forces redeploying (withdrawing should be more precise but it is not a word that Japanese officers use) arrived in Homan and relieved the two small base forces holding the town of their garrison duties. Both BF will go to the coast, one to support aircraft flying ASW in Wenchow, the other to follow the coastal road to go to Southern China.
The 2nd Eng Rgt coming from Northern China arrived in Hengchow and will take this coastal road to go to Southern China too.

Japan

Five South Sea Detachments were formed in Tokyo today. Their original mission was to go to the Pacific and New Guinea and to hold secondary base (with their 99 AV) but due to the situation in the Kuriles their orders were modified and they received orders to prepare for a deployment to Paramushiro Jima.


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by AmiralLaurent -- 5/11/2007 12:34:50 AM >

(in reply to Emilio)
Post #: 657
RE: 13 July 1943: well-earned pause - 5/11/2007 12:42:47 AM   
Zond


Posts: 110
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
AmiralLaurent, congratulations on your victory in "Battle Of Northern Seas". Great AAR, keep up the good work. It is a pleasure to read it!

< Message edited by Zond -- 5/11/2007 12:46:55 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 658
14 July 1943: early return of the Allied fleet - 5/11/2007 10:05:31 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline
14 July 1943

Northern Pacific

60 miles NW of Onnekotan Jima, the base east of PJ, the American submarine Capelin tried twice to attack the KB (2 CV and 2 BB TF). Before dawn he saw a BB and a CA but was seen and chased by the 6 DD escorting this TF even if she escaped undamaged the depth charges dropped by one. In the morning she closed again and this time launched torpedoes on the CV Junyo, but missed. Five DD then searched her and two dropped DCs, the Koroshio scoring a direct hit and a near-miss that damaged the submarine. By the way the heavy ASW and naval patrols from KB airmen during the day only showed 3 Allied submarines in the area and none were attacked.

The real surprise of the day was in the morning, when the SS I-25 patrolling 240 miles east of PJ reported several cruisers before trying to engage them. Unable to close on the heavy warships she finally attacked a DD but missed. Four DD then chased her and the USS Conway and O’Bannon badly damaged her (38/64/0) with 2 hits and 8 near-misses with Mk 9 depth charges. Japanese naval search patrols then closed to this area and reported 6 Allied TFs: an AP convoy, 3 surface TF (with at least one BB) and 2 CV TF (with 3 and 2 CV)! It was not thought possible for Allied CV to return to this area so fast.

By the way, Japanese airmen also flew recon over Amchitka, Attu and Kiska. Nothing was seen off the 1st, 6 BB off the 2nd and 3 CV off the later, where the usual land-based CAP was reinforced by 29 F4F-4. An AP was seen in Kiska port while 13 ships were counted in Attu port.

After missing much of the action of the next days, Attu heavy bombers finally flew today. In the morning 34 B-17E were sent to bomb Japanese troops in PJ but the base detected them to some distance and asked cover from the KB that sent 42 A6M3a and 8 A6M5 to intercept the raid. The air battle was costly to both sides: 10 B-17E and 6 A6M3a were shot down, and 2 B-17E, 2 A6M3a and 1 A6M5 badly damaged crashed later. The best active Japanese ace, PO2 Fujita P of EII-1 Daitai, shot down one of these bombers to bring his score to 27. The bombers attacked one of the 3 Naval Guard Unit of the garrison and hit 54 men and 1 gun but met heavy AA fire that shot down 3 of them.

During the morning, the KB CAP shot down a PB4Y searching her NW of Onnekotan Jima. In the afternoon 5 other PB4Y from Attu tried to attack it but met a CAP of 128 A6M3a and 26 A6M5 and all were shot down against the loss of an A6M3a to return fire. Two A6M3a of the KB were also lost during the day in accidents, reducing its complement to 206 fighters (194 serviceable), 80 DB (80) and 78 TB (77).

On the ground on PJ Japanese guns fired on Allied troops without success, and then Allied troops launched another deliberate attack and managed to take a fortified hill dominating their beachhead (engineers reduced forts from level 9 to 8). The attack failed elsewhere at 0 to 1 (1079 Allied AV vs 533, adjusted to 1134 vs 2968). Japanese lost 499 men and 10 guns, Allied 840 men and 16 guns.

The evening report in PJ reported damage of 67/49/90 (airbase/runways/port), 186 available engineer squads and 500 AV while the Allied forces were reported before their attack as 67521 men, 620 guns and 170 vehicles (AV 1140). Two Tina ferrying troops from Wakkanai were lost in crashes today. Japanese troops were ordered to stop artillery fire on Allied troops.

The KB was not in a good state to engage a new CV battle and with no idea of what the Allied fleet will do it was decided to not send the BB TF to PJ as it was planned. All Japanese TF were ordered to sail together to Toyohara to rearm ammunition and refill in part the air groups.

In Toyohara 27 more Betties and 12 Oscar II arrived from Japan. Bombers based here were ordered to continue to fly naval search and recon, but most of them (64 Betties and 20 Nells) will try to fly night naval attack.

Two AR and their CL and DD escort reached Etoforu Jima but given to the new Allied advance towards PJ only one AR was disbanded there, the other was ordered to Toyohara with the full escort. Damaged ships still sailed westwards, the state of two submarines and the CL Kuma being considered dangerous.

The five new South Seas Detachments in Tokyo received orders to board trains to go to Ominato. The 1st and 2nd received orders to prepare for Onnekotan and Etorofu Jima rather than PJ as they were ordered the day before.




New Guinea-New Britain- Solomon Islands

Four Betty from Truk bombarded the airfield of Goodenough Island during the night but missed. During the day, a Emily flying recon over this island was shot down by one of the 9 Kittyhawk I of 118 Sqn RCAF flying CAP over the base.

In the afternoon Rabaul was attacked by 15 B-25J from Gili Gili that disabled 18 men and 2 guns and scored 1 hit on the airbase, 1 on supplies and 5 on the runways. This base reported that a bomber was shot down by AA fire and that all damage was repaired before the evening.

And finally the Japanese meteorologists provided to the area commander a forecast of thunderstorms. Under such cover the raiding surface TF waiting north of Green Island (the CA Atago and 3 DD) was ordered to sail at full speed to Goodenough Island to bombard it (and hit shipping off the base). 24 A6M3a flew to Kavieng from Truk in the evening and will LRCAP these ships, while recon will be flown tomorrow to Buna, Goodenough and Kiriwima Islands.

Timor-DEI-Australia

In the morning the Dutch submarine KVII attacked a barge convoy north of Lautem with gunfire but the Japanese ships escaped undamaged in a fog bank. The submarine reported the attack and in the afternoon 14 Brewster 339D from Darwin found again this convoy and attacked, sinking one barge.

In the afternoon, Lautem was bombed by 113 B-17E, 58 B-25C and 34 B-24D from Darwin escorted by 16 P-40N that scored 7 hits on the airbase, 3 on supplies and 67 on the runway, did 68 casualties, and disabled a gun. A B-25C and a P-40N were lost in accidents.

The evening report for this area gave the airfield status as: Maumere 30/0 (system/runway), Lautem 61/63/11, other bases undamaged. The garrison of Koepang had started again to build fortifications (level 6, 21%).

SRA

The ASW group sent from Manila chased again the American submarine Sunfish NW of Vigan during the night. A MSW and a DD dropped depth charges against her but she escaped undamaged. Japanese airmen saw eight another Allied submarines N and NW of Luzon during the day!

A convoy loaded 21k resources in Swatow, China, and will carry them to Japan, while the TK convoy that sailey yesterday empty from Palembang returned to this base and was again ordered to load 112k oil that it will carry to Singapore.

Burma

Allied air activity was again reduced by bad weather. Myitkyina was attacked by 7 B-25J from Ledo escorted by 21 P-40E that scored 1 hit on supplies and 5 on the runways. In the jungle more west, the 12th NLF was attacked by 56 Hurricane II from Imphal escorted by 6 Spitfire Vb SE of this base, and the 11th NLF SW of Kohima was bombed by 30 Lysander from this base escorted by 10 Spitfire Vb. Both units had no more able squads, so no loss were listed in the combat report but both now were under 50% of their OOB and may eventually disappear. In the evening the 65 Sentai flew from Rangoon to Lashio with 36 Tonies to fly tomorrow LRCAP over the 11th NLF to try to cover it and score some easy kills against the Lysander.

During the day Japanese recon still reported an Allied convoy off Diamond Harbor and small CAP over Kohima, but Allied fighters shot down 2 Dinah II over Kohima and Chandpur. A decimated recon Chutai was sent to Singapore where it upgraded to Dinah III and received rookie crews that will be trained here. Three new recon units arrived from China and DEI in Burma.

The evening report gave the airfield status as: Mandalay 51/22 (system/runway), other bases undamaged. In Myitkyina Japanese engineers continued to build fortifications (level 8, 9%).

The final convoy bringing reinforcements for the Burma front arrived in Bangkok and began to unload a regiment of the 30th Div, the 1st Amphibious Bde, the 11th and 12th Ind Mixed Rgt and the HQ of the 17th Area Army, that will all march north and join the counter-offensive 120 miles west of Myitkyina. These troops should arrive here in 3 weeks.

China

All Japanese troops that were near Kunming retired SE during the day and will march to Kweiyang.

Chinese troops 120 miles east of Kweiyang (2 War Area HQ, 5 Corps) were bombed by 35 Oscar II, 24 A6M3a, 22 Ki-49 and 19 Ki-21 from Wuhan, 22 Ki-48 and 20 Ki-21 from Nanning and 12 Oscar II from Nanchang and lost 93 men and 1 gun while a Lily was lost in a crash. They were then the target of a shock attack launched by the troops of the Southern China Army facing them (5.33 Div, 1 Tk Rgt, 2 ART, 2 HQ) and were defeated at 8 to 1 (1844 Japanese AV (not counting x2 due to shock attack) vs 1107, adjusted to 2201 vs 275). All Chinese troops retreated this time, and joined eastwards the Chines reinforcements coming the other way. 19 Chinese units were reported E of the battlefield in the evening. Japanese losses were 1408 men, 26 guns and 2 tanks, Chinese ones 771 killed and wounded, more than 4000 prisonners (30+ troop points) and 17 guns.

The 50th Chinese Corps was bombed NW of Changsha by 24 Ki-51 from Wuhan and lost 23 men. The part of the 11th Bde ordered to join the 11th Army in Changsha will arrive tomorrow and the attack on this city planned after the victory east of Kweiyang will be delayed. All air units in the area will so be allowed a rest day before supporting this attack.

Japan

Five IJNAF air units were created today with mean experienced pilots and crews (exp 57-60) and were all sent to Sapporo and Ominato. They all will be used to complement KB air units and had a total of 48 A6M2, 75 Kates and 54 Vals. A Val was lost in a crash during the transfer flight, as was one of the 32 Ki-57 arriving in Ominato from Hungnam and planned to ferry troops in the area in the next days.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by AmiralLaurent -- 5/11/2007 10:09:16 AM >

(in reply to Zond)
Post #: 659
RE: 14 July 1943: early return of the Allied fleet - 5/11/2007 11:31:29 AM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
I wonder if your opponent is going to get a Lexington 3

Is there a limit on the number of CV's that re-spawn?

< Message edited by Miller -- 5/11/2007 11:33:26 AM >

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 660
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