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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus

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Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus - 5/28/2007 3:38:39 PM

Accipiter

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It seems to me that once '44 rolls around the Japanese Navy is next to neutered as there is very few places to operate that aren't under Allied air control. I have been thinking that the only way to slow the Allied advance is to build up my air fleet at the cost of my shipyards, something on the scale of cutting out 1/2 my Naval shipyards and 1/4 of my merchant (to save HI) and expanding aircraft and engine production. Most of my remaining ship production will be for DDs, MLs, and transports. Has anyone tried anything like this or is it just a bad idea all around?

< Message edited by Accipiter -- 5/28/2007 3:39:50 PM >

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RE: Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus - 5/28/2007 3:56:06 PM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Accipiter

It seems to me that once '44 rolls around the Japanese Navy is next to neutered as there is very few places to operate that aren't under Allied air control. I have been thinking that the only way to slow the Allied advance is to build up my air fleet at the cost of my shipyards, something on the scale of cutting out 1/2 my Naval shipyards and 1/4 of my merchant (to save HI) and expanding aircraft and engine production. Most of my remaining ship production will be for DDs, MLs, and transports. Has anyone tried anything like this or is it just a bad idea all around?

Even 10.000 planes more won�t really help you as you don�t have trained pilots for them nor do you have daitais where you can put those planes into to train new pilots. The more planes with untrained pilots you send in, the more will be taken down by Corsairs, Hellcats, Thunderbolts and Spitfires...

There�s also no lack in using thousands of "untrained" kamikazes as they won�t hit anything...

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RE: Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus - 5/28/2007 4:09:32 PM

jumper

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Japan needs better planes and experienced pilots in 44, not just more obsolete planes. Well, pilots more then better planes as George and Frank are good planes, but only with experienced pilots in them. That is what you need to solve. Get the Reppu and Shinden a 12-18 moths earlier, save several hundreds/thousands highly experienced pilots for them and the operational area of your remaing fleet will be much larger..

Unfortunately (from JFB point of view) it is not doable..

Simply building more planes just provide allies with more targets to shoot down. IMO the only things that can slow allied advance in 44 are well positioned and fortified LCUs and surprisingly your navy. Keep KB as fleet in being and don�t hesitate to fight with your surface assets at the right moments. Your enemy will be forced to plan every invasion very carefully with full strength. My experience is that the japanese airforce is the weakest spot in 44-45 no matter of their numbers.. BTW the number of planes you have in pool will not help you at all if your will be unable to achieve a huge coordinated strikes against enemy. And THAT is something very rare in the world of witp..

just my 2p..

(in reply to Accipiter)

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RE: Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus - 5/28/2007 4:18:20 PM

AmiralLaurent

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Surface ships will be more useful than AC to delay the Allied advance IMOO. Sending thousands of untrained crews to attack enemy TF will mostly serve to raise the experience of the Allied fights that will score tens of kills, and will increase the Allied score.

As for the combat effectiveness compared to the cost a durability 11 DD will cost 11 * 11 * 10 = 1210 naval point = 3630 HI = the cost of 100 fighters or 65 Betties. The latter will probbaly deal more damage to the enemy. But IMOO you have to have a powerful surface navy fighting with a sufficient good air power to be the most efficient.

On the same order of idea an Unryu CV will be worth 39 690 naval point (if you don't accelerate her) = 119 070 HI = 3307 fighters or 2205 Betties (by the way if will arrive with 54 "free" AC...). So again arithmetics seem to be in AC favor, but once again if KB is intact and US CV reduced having a big KB may help to repulse an attack, or raid enemy line.

The main problem I see in your proposal is that you can't create new units from thin air in WITP and that even with a naval industry running at full power (and ever increased), I have no problem at all to produce AC to fill air the existing air units. So either you plan to lose thousand of AC each months and will be forced to use rookies at 25-30 exp that won't hit anything, or you want to try to train your crews and you will not need to turn down your naval shipyards until fairly late in the war...

(in reply to castor troy)

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RE: Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus - 5/28/2007 4:45:22 PM

Accipiter

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I should had mentioned that the scenario will not be stock, but rather the RHSEOS mod which has a better pilot training program.

EOS Army = 60xp/150 replacement rate
EOS Navy = 70xp/216 replacement rate

In an older version of the mod that I'm playing, it is mid-43 and I have in excess of 1800 replacement pilots sitting in the wings before I have to start recruiting untrained pilots. On the map, I don't have any air unit with less than 70 experience except for a few units that have just arrived in the 50's.

In this mod, the EOS also starts with more completed CVs and relatively few heavy surface ships in the build queue although there are a few move CVs (and CVEs) that are to be built.

This is my first full PBEM game so I don't know how heavily that pool is going to be tapped in the near future, but it feels like a pretty good buffer for the moment.

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)

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RE: Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus - 5/28/2007 5:37:38 PM

niceguy2005

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I have no knowledge of this mod, but I'm not sure well trained pilots will be enough. I don't think Japan's late war fighters can match up against the Corsair, Thunderbolt and Hellcat. It will help but it won't be enough.

Assuming the allied player didn't completely screw up in 43 the bohemoth called the USN and USAAF will be too big to slow for long. I think the best approach will be an integrated defense with air, naval, coastal defense and mines...why?...because if any one component is seriously lacking the allied player will key in on that weakness and exploit it.

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RE: Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus - 5/28/2007 6:03:01 PM

jumper

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That changes things a bit. But truly said not so much. You should be able to build enough planes for them even without those changes you have mentioned, but Corsairs/Thunderbolts/Spits will eat your pilots pretty quickly. And once you pool is empty all said above start to work..
btw 70xp is not so much. Even George/Frank pilot needs to be at least 80-85 to be able put some fight against allied super fighters.. The difference between xp70 and xp85 is large! Spend the remaining time by training your pilots as high as possible and build an on-map pool of them. But once they are gone (and they WILL be gone) the number of planes in pool will not make any difference in delaying allied advance. Also note that you may have 2000 highly experienced planes ready on your AF, but if they will be lounched against allied wall of 900 hellcats in several poorly coordinated waves, you will see only horrible losses wit no real results. Coordination and pilots xp is the key of success. And you may affect only the second..

I don�t know if there are any changes in air combat or AC statistics or if it is similar to stock model, so in case there are major differences in comparison with stock (all my xp comes from playing stock), all I wrote is worthless for you..
In stock loosing 2000 planes is a matter of 1-2 big battles. Especially When KB lounches its 900 Jill/Judy/Zeke against Corsairs/Hellcats.

(in reply to Accipiter)

Post #: 7

RE: Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus - 5/31/2007 7:42:01 AM

MineSweeper

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Put some 90 exp Franks and Jacks up against the 70s - 80 exp Corsairs and Hellcats and they will eat them alive.....Experince is key to Air to Air battles.....High experince Jacks and Franks can decimate B-29 formations.....

< Message edited by MineSweeper -- 5/31/2007 7:58:47 AM >

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Japanese A/C vs. Naval Focus

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