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CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 4:27:19 AM   
Admiral DadMan


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From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		CV aircraft are now damaged when you transfer them (undamaged). It works both ways: from CV to Base. or Base back to CV (docked or undocked)

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RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 5:19:12 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Only when the CV TF is in the base hex. If the CV is not in the base hex they arent damaged.

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 2
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 5:24:09 AM   
Admiral DadMan


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From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Only when the CV TF is in the base hex. If the CV is not in the base hex they arent damaged.

Had not tested that yet. It was not that way before, at least not in Alpha/Beta, so why now? It's wrong.

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RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 5:57:54 AM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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No Sir, it is not wrong. It is an intentional change based on the fact that carriers not underway must unload aircraft via cranes, pack them on trucks and/or lighters, and haul them from the port to the airfield. The damage represents the preparation, transit, and loading/unloading.

It is normal practice and much, much better to fly the carrier air group ashore before entering port.

Don

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 4
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 6:22:48 AM   
Admiral DadMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


No Sir, it is not wrong. It is an intentional change based on the fact that carriers not underway must unload aircraft via cranes, pack them on trucks and/or lighters, and haul them from the port to the airfield. The damage represents the preparation, transit, and loading/unloading.

It is normal practice and much, much better to fly the carrier air group ashore before entering port.

Don

Ok I'll give you that, but why does it affect an undocked CV in the base hex? With hexes being 60m, I would have thought that it would only be docked or in port that they would be crated.

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RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 7:36:01 AM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Ok I'll give you that, but why does it affect an undocked CV in the base hex? With hexes being 60m, I would have thought that it would only be docked or in port that they would be crated.


It shouldn't. And I just ran a quick test and it didn't. The code spcifically checks for the TF to be docked. If you have a circumstance where aircraft transferred from an undocked carrier are damaged, I'll raise the issue with one of the people currently handling support.


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Post #: 6
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 7:42:20 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Ok I'll give you that, but why does it affect an undocked CV in the base hex? With hexes being 60m, I would have thought that it would only be docked or in port that they would be crated.


It shouldn't. And I just ran a quick test and it didn't. The code spcifically checks for the TF to be docked. If you have a circumstance where aircraft transferred from an undocked carrier are damaged, I'll raise the issue with one of the people currently handling support.


Ok Don, thanks. It happened to me in both my PBeM games in the last 2 days.

I will recreate steps and see what I get for results.

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Post #: 7
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 4:19:11 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I have had CV planes get damaged with the CVs in port and docked (WAD), I had them damaged with CVs in base hex and undocked (WNAD) and I had CVs being ten or more hexes away from the base on the open sea (so NOT DOCKED of course) and still had whole daitais being damaged due to transfer (and not accumulating a single point of fatigue) so there is something that is definetely not working ALWAYS as designed. Funny thing was that when I transferred all three daitais off the carrier, two were not damaged and one was damaged. Or another example: having the daitais at a base (Tinian, doing training bombing runs on Guam) and the CV is at Truk. I transfer the daitai from Tinian onto the carrier at Truk and it gets completely damaged with no points of fatigue accumulated. No matter if the carrier is docked or undocked. I´m sorry to say that but this routine is for sure not working like it should be (while Don´s explanation why it was implemented is surely okay).

Actually it happened pretty often in my games.

It´s just as "bugged" as being able to "r" transfer whole squadrons over trails now...

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RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 4:30:17 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Ok I'll give you that, but why does it affect an undocked CV in the base hex? With hexes being 60m, I would have thought that it would only be docked or in port that they would be crated.


It shouldn't. And I just ran a quick test and it didn't. The code spcifically checks for the TF to be docked. If you have a circumstance where aircraft transferred from an undocked carrier are damaged, I'll raise the issue with one of the people currently handling support.




Actually, it happens pretty consistently with me*... so i suspect i will be able to confirm it if a save is sent to me... let me know if someone has one.

(*EDIT = transferring float planes to the base hex the ship is in always
ends up with all the planes disabled... not sure if this is exactly the same bug...)


< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 6/7/2007 4:32:07 PM >

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 9
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 5:36:22 PM   
Admiral DadMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Ok I'll give you that, but why does it affect an undocked CV in the base hex? With hexes being 60m, I would have thought that it would only be docked or in port that they would be crated.


It shouldn't. And I just ran a quick test and it didn't. The code spcifically checks for the TF to be docked. If you have a circumstance where aircraft transferred from an undocked carrier are damaged, I'll raise the issue with one of the people currently handling support.




Actually, it happens pretty consistently with me*... so i suspect i will be able to confirm it if a save is sent to me... let me know if someone has one.

(*EDIT = transferring float planes to the base hex the ship is in always
ends up with all the planes disabled... not sure if this is exactly the same bug...)




ok, strangness abounds... now NOT happening to CV groups if UNdocked, but DOES happen to floatplanes whether docked or undocked... this is using a clean started Scen 15 with Saratoga and Concord in San Diego.

I'll have to chalk up the CV occurance as "user error" (i.e. too much Guiness Dark)

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(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 10
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/7/2007 5:54:50 PM   
jwilkerson


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From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

Ok I'll give you that, but why does it affect an undocked CV in the base hex? With hexes being 60m, I would have thought that it would only be docked or in port that they would be crated.


It shouldn't. And I just ran a quick test and it didn't. The code spcifically checks for the TF to be docked. If you have a circumstance where aircraft transferred from an undocked carrier are damaged, I'll raise the issue with one of the people currently handling support.




Actually, it happens pretty consistently with me*... so i suspect i will be able to confirm it if a save is sent to me... let me know if someone has one.

(*EDIT = transferring float planes to the base hex the ship is in always
ends up with all the planes disabled... not sure if this is exactly the same bug...)




For me it is consistent (for carrier planes - haven't paid attention for float planes).

If docked or disbanded then carrier planes are damaged. If undocked, whether in base or not, then not damaged.



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(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 11
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/8/2007 6:34:06 AM   
erstad

 

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Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan


I'll have to chalk up the CV occurance as "user error" (i.e. too much Guiness Dark)


There is no such thing as too much Guinness

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Post #: 12
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/8/2007 1:27:36 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		I have often seen AC flying from CV (at sea, away from any base) to base being fully damaged when they arrived.

When air units flew from base to CV (at sea) I have never seen them being damaged.

By the way, it is normal than air units can't transfer from one CV to another in WITP ? I am not able to do that, and can't understand the reasons of that (while I'm fully OK with the crane thing for docked CV).

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 13
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/8/2007 6:25:19 PM   
jwilkerson


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From: Kansas
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quote:

By the way, it is normal than air units can't transfer from one CV to another in WITP ? I am not able to do that


Hum, I do this all the time (despite Don's warnings to the contrary :D)

Though I think, in all cases, I transfer ashore first and then to the new carrier. Not sure why I do it that way, but has become a habit.



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(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 14
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/8/2007 6:49:40 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
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From: Near Paris, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

By the way, it is normal than air units can't transfer from one CV to another in WITP ? I am not able to do that


Hum, I do this all the time (despite Don's warnings to the contrary :D)

Though I think, in all cases, I transfer ashore first and then to the new carrier. Not sure why I do it that way, but has become a habit.



Doing this by a transfer ashore is working. What I wanted to do was to transfer a CV air unit to another CV in the same hex directly.

When an air unit is aboard a ship and you click on 'transfer to ship", the list is empty (at least for me).

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 15
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/8/2007 7:09:01 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
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From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

By the way, it is normal than air units can't transfer from one CV to another in WITP ? I am not able to do that


Hum, I do this all the time (despite Don's warnings to the contrary :D)

Though I think, in all cases, I transfer ashore first and then to the new carrier. Not sure why I do it that way, but has become a habit.



Doing this by a transfer ashore is working. What I wanted to do was to transfer a CV air unit to another CV in the same hex directly.

When an air unit is aboard a ship and you click on 'transfer to ship", the list is empty (at least for me).



I guess the unit has to transfer ashore first to pick up sufficient copies of their orders to be permitted aboard their new ship!


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Post #: 16
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/8/2007 8:29:43 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I'll just throw my 2 pfennigs worth.

I don't like this "feature".  While it's true that yes if you unload the planes in port (in real life), it's via cranes, I think this is an unessary "feature" that nobody would ever intentionally WANT to use.

If I undock my TF, I can fly off my planes without issue.
If I forget to undock, all of my planes are damaged.

Is it realistic for the instance of "but if you were in port, you'd have to use cranes!". Yes.  But why would ever WANT to use cranes to remove my aircraft and have them all damaged?

Basically, you're just penalizing a player for no going thru the extra clicks of un-dock, fly-off, dock.

Why would I *EVER* want all my planes damaged?  If I'm going to dock, and want my planse off to be able to fly top-cover (perfectly realistic), all you've ever done is add key-strokes to an already click-intensive game.  I can't think of a reason I'd ever want planes damaged coming off my CV, and WANT to use that "feature".

I think the support for WitP has been phenomiminal.  But think this is a case of "it got enhanced to death" (which is rare for WitP).

-F-

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Post #: 17
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/9/2007 5:13:51 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Agree with Feinder on this. Seems silly to have to form CV TF, undock it, transfer planes off and then disband.

As for transfering CV to CV. Works fine. If the CVs are in different TFs that is

If they are in the same TF you cant do it. So again, another pain to form CV TF, transfer planes off, then re-form the TF.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 6/9/2007 5:14:40 AM >

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Post #: 18
RE: CV planes damaged on transfer - 6/19/2007 8:32:44 PM   
grumbler

 

Posts: 214
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From: Falls Church VA USA
Status: offline 		You can transfer planes ashore via crane even if the CV is too damaged to fly off planes.  That is the only time the crane transfer makes sense.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 19
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