Walloc
Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
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To Yogi. In HW a column firing vs a line has halved it firevalue. The lines return fire is at +50%.
As to what is the extra losses since Eric designed it in the end its for him to answer.
Way i see it is if im to base what i see in tactical historical explantions. Columns in general represent more densely packed targets there for giving the extra casulties.
A artillery roundball can plow it self through a target 4 times as deep if it hits. Causing more casulties as oppose to a line.
In general again this if ofc vary alot, but in general u could fairly well hit a company sized unit in the latteral direction. Its usually the range that pose the hardest of the 2 factors in order to get a hit. Since if u get a hit. The deeper a target its the more casulties u will take as the ball pass through the formation. Column being deeper than lines.
As to exploding granates, the advantage of firing columns vs lines are less obvious but again assuming the grenade explodes throwing sharpnel in all directions. If such land in middle of a column it theoritical could do hits all around. A grenade landing in a line would in theory only hit men in the direction of the line not in the 2 other directions.
So in general a more densely packed target "should" give more casulties, for grenades too.
As to lines vs columns in game. I know there has been a progression in how often AI goes into lines. First beta patch it certain stayed in column more than now.
My experience in 1.9.23 is that in most battles the AI goes in to lines pretty much for all the units. Then there are some battles where it seems the AI for some reason preferes columns even making pretty suicidal column attacks. Happens around ever 10 battle or so to me. I've reported this to Eric and i guess we will see if he can tweek it more. I had some idea on why it happen and send that long with my findings.
Is ur experience the same or do u see columns more than that?
To drex.
Repeating my self a bit. As i see it its a design sorta decision.
Yes both Tiller and Mannasa are more tactical then HW in FoF which plays a role.
As said it could certainly be argued that columns in ACW shouldnt be able to fire, cuz they didnt do so tacticly. In firefight u would most certainly form lines, asap. There in FoF in HW isnt a sorta reaction in other sides turn to represent that. U have to make the lines outside rifle range and advance in. in My experience AI usually does that but there are exceptions as said above. Btw that use lines is very historical.
If u look at it from a purely manpower point of view a column would have 1/4 of it men able to fire just as they would if formed in a line, so from that POV a column has undoubtly a firevalue.
Again its bde sized unit in FoF. What does a bde in column represent. All reg in column or possbily a mix?
If we go back to Napoleonic. If u take the british out of the equation, the far majority of battles post 1808. For all the other nations u would see fighting taking mainly taking place in columns. Some times firefights included. Yes at times u could see the columns deploy in to line and respond to firefights, in that way.
Seing columns in firefight was common, ofc at times coopled with skirmishers.
Nearly all attacks u would see would be in btn columns and only if the shock value of columns failed, u could see them deploy into lines for the ensuring firefights. Stressing even that wasnt a given, in napoleonic's.
Where as in ACW u would form in lines pre attack and attack in those formations. Very rarely are attacks done in formed columns.
A big difference in the 2 periodes, well napoleonics after 1806.
Austrian, russian, prussian armies being armies formed/deployed in lines in 1805-1807 and pre that. All those armies changing that practice after that.
To be apple to counter the french use of columns giving more "freedom/speed" tacticly on the battlefield.
French in general using columns or ordre mix. Later in the periode dropping ordre mix, as troops became less and less experienced and armies becemmong bigger and bigger posing larger problems controlling armies deployed in or part in lines. As the prussian learned at Jena.
U could use the column formation for movements and deploying into lines as u came "close" to the enemy, if wished.Effective weapon ranges in napoleonic's being alot less than in ACW meaning u in effect could use a column to get much close before a need to form lines. Objective of column was tho to make the enemy withdraw/flee using the shock effect.
Edit: lol IC manages to out type my 2 finger typing by 30 mins
< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/11/2007 11:57:19 PM >
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