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1 Stars attached to Brigades

 
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1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 12:17:08 AM   
LuckyCJS1001

 

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Is there anyway to attach a 1 star to a particular brigade before I go into Detailed Combat ?

I get the use of the 'g' key but does this mean that I have to reassign a 1 star for every battle that involves him ?

Just thinking that this could get boring real quick in big battles. Or have I missed something again :-)

I have read the manual I promise. I think it says if I recall correctly that 1 stars are assigned to Brigades randomly at the start of battles.
Post #: 1
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 12:44:45 AM   
jkBluesman


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You have already given the answer to your question. The "g" key is not boring but offers more chances to support certain brigades in heavy fighting, I think.

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Post #: 2
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 1:05:08 AM   
LuckyCJS1001

 

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Let me rephrase.

Do I have to reassign a 1 star to a particular Brigade every time I start a detailed combat ?

If I do it seems a little clunky.

If not I may have missed something in the manual.

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Post #: 3
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 3:47:48 AM   
Walloc

 

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In one word, yes.

1 star starts in container its allocated too. Whether its totaly random among the bde's or there is a way that the game allocates 1s star to which bde within the container i frankly dont know. Its not some thing u have any say over, no.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/12/2007 7:07:20 AM >

(in reply to LuckyCJS1001)
Post #: 4
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 8:38:40 AM   
LuckyCJS1001

 

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Thanks Rasmus

I thought that may be the way it goes. Shame you cannot assign a 1 star to a brigade and he stays there until ordered otherwise.

Chris

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 5
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 9:01:56 AM   
Tanaka


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How does the G key work? I press this button over my units and it does not do anything...

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Post #: 6
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 9:13:45 AM   
Gil R.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyCJS1001

Thanks Rasmus

I thought that may be the way it goes. Shame you cannot assign a 1 star to a brigade and he stays there until ordered otherwise.

Chris



You have to understand, that's a lot more micromanagement than many people would want, especially since in most cases it doesn't really matter which general is assigned to a brigade. (Meaning that most generals are average, and thus it doesn't matter much whether a general whose ratings are 3-2-3-4-0 or one whose ratings are 4-3-3-2-0 commands a brigade. Of course, when you have a general whose ratings average is at least "good" you might want to assign him to your best brigade, but most generals with ratings averaging 5+ are going to be promoted to 2+ stars, anyway.) If you think this is worth having as a game option please add it to the Wish List thread and we'll consider it for the expansion pack. Perhaps as an option that can be toggled on or off it would be worth adding.

(in reply to LuckyCJS1001)
Post #: 7
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 9:57:05 AM   
Walloc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

How does the G key work? I press this button over my units and it does not do anything...


When in HW/DC u can move a general from the units u currently have active to another unit. Assuming the unit u currently have active has a general and the unit ur moving the general too, doesnt have a general attached alrdy.

Very usefull feature especially to avoid losing very valueble generals my moving him to units not engaged or trying to give units a bonus in combat for attached general with the risk of losing him ofcourse.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/12/2007 9:58:55 AM >

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 8
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 9:58:50 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

How does the G key work? I press this button over my units and it does not do anything...


When in HW/DC u can move a general from the units u currently have active to another unit. Assuming the unit u currently have active, has a general and the unit ur moving the general too, doesnt have a general attached alrdy.

Very usefull feature especially to avoid losing very valueble generals my moving him to units not engaged or trying to give units a bonus in combat for attached general with the risk of losing him ofcourse.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus


Ah I see! All my units had generals and I thought I could switch them around...


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Post #: 9
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 10:03:47 AM   
Walloc

 

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One trick is using supply wagons. Move the general to a supply wagon. Then move general u want on the original unit, when u get to the unit having that general when its thats units turn. Then move general from supply wagon back to 2nd unit when ever supply wagon gets its turn again.
Supply wagon can be used to "hide/shield" valueble generals too. So they dont die. Assuming ofc that the supply wagon is safely hidden behind ur lines.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/12/2007 10:06:33 AM >

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Post #: 10
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 10:21:51 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

One trick is using supply wagons. Move the general to a supply wagon. Then move general u want on the original unit, when u get to the unit having that general when its thats units turn. Then move general from supply wagon back to 2nd unit when ever supply wagon gets its turn again.
Supply wagon can be used to "hide/shield" valueble generals too. So they dont die. Assuming ofc that the supply wagon is safely hidden behind ur lines.

Kind regards,

Rasmus


Great tip! Thanks!

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Post #: 11
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 10:22:30 AM   
LuckyCJS1001

 

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Re the supply thing - Now that is a good idea.

Gil I can see your point now after I gave it a bit of thought. No rush on the perma assigned 1 star. Just a nice to have.

Sorry if I came over a bit anal, but having started to read up on the war it is amazing how much worth a decent officer had during the ACW. Jackson being an obvious example.

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(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 12
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 10:23:17 AM   
LuckyCJS1001

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 3/18/2007
Status: offline
Why do my posts keep doing that ?

Using Mozilla, no other boards give me problem.

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Post #: 13
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 10:36:50 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyCJS1001

Why do my posts keep doing that ?

Using Mozilla, no other boards give me problem.




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Post #: 14
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 2:37:23 PM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

One trick is using supply wagons. Move the general to a supply wagon. Then move general u want on the original unit, when u get to the unit having that general when its thats units turn. Then move general from supply wagon back to 2nd unit when ever supply wagon gets its turn again.
Supply wagon can be used to "hide/shield" valueble generals too. So they dont die. Assuming ofc that the supply wagon is safely hidden behind ur lines.

Kind regards,

Rasmus


Ah great post! Now finally maybe I can get Stuart, Jackson and Lee to command something other than my Arty units!!

Terje

(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 15
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 3:38:33 PM   
janh

 

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Hi,
I am following the process of FoF for quite a few months now trying to decide whether it would be worth buying. In principal I love the idea of combining refined strategic elements, diplomacy and economy with a detailed, high-level HW component. There was already a try to form such a game years ago, I guess it was America 1861-1865 or something alike, but AI was but a mess.

FoF in my eyes seems to be really good and I think now it might be worth a try. There are but (very) few points, which I hope would (soon?) be adressed in another patch.
One thing is this thread - there should be the option to micromanage brigade command! It gives a sense of presonality to the units and may give a kind of respect if you send in "Gen. Jubal Earlys brigade against Col. John Gibbons black hats".
Another thing seems to be the sometimes barely sensible use of cavalary in DC, which I read about a few times now.
Also I have a few more questions: How does resupply work in DC? And how can I cut off major formations of their supplies on the strategic maps? Can I place forts on exact locations on the map andf can I move units into exact spots (i.e. pixels) or do provinces only serve as a kind of "map squares"?
How would a "Jacksonian Shenando Campaign" or "the pensinsula campaign" with like 6 separate battles against 3 armies in a single week and single province work out in the FoF engine?
And how is the setup of starting positions managed for player and AI in DC? Would AI be able to behave like a Hooker at chancellorsville, i.e. keep several corps mostly stationary in a more or less suited defensive line for serveral days or would it start moving them around earlier or later?

I started my "Civil War career" with SSI games on a Commodore 64. That was Chickamauga, Gettysburg, Shiloh and Antietam. Really cool games at that time! I loved the features of having brigade, divisional and corps officers that could be transferred and impacted effeciency significantly and I loved being able to divide brigades into two halves to form wider fronts etc.
Afterwards I of course was "captured" by Sid Meiers Gettysburg and Antietam, which like todays MadMinute Games 1st and 2nd Manassas being 3D with detailed regimental formations and single guns are still great. However, I hate that the multi-days battles like gettysburg & 2nd manssases are broken down into single small scenarios or even large battlefield in smaller maps. Ok, you don't need such a refined AI if you only put like 2 corps fighting against each other for 2h over a limited ground, but I really miss the feel of decisions TRUELY impacting the whole next day(s) fighting, deciding upon keeping units in reserve etc...I hope you know what I mean.
The pro of MMGs latest game is truely the AI. It is quite good if one can fight "alongside" an AI general, get orders and send orders via courier to your subordinate generals and see how they maneuver - or fail to comply with your orders. It is great NOT to steer every move of your regiments on your own, altough you can. It can give you the feeling of being the general in command, especially if you don't use a birds eye perspective but just "move around on your horse with keeping your own perspective". Things look somewhat more complicated and confusing then...

Of course what I would dream of would be a combination of FoF and the MMG engine, i.e. playing detailed combat on randomly generated -or even better sometimes historic - 3D battle fields with detailed units, weapons, weather, visiblity, and generals that can have their own minds and need not to be "steered into the exact locations" but "get their orders". Is there any chance in the future that FoF might extend into that direction? Or might it be possible to write a kind of export/import function that may export FOFs detailed battles into a MMG scenario file and afterwards reimports the battle results and losses?

Keep going with FoF!
JH

(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 16
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 3:44:16 PM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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one thing I have seen, if you got 1 stars in your container, if you do not add other units to that container, then the 1 stars will command the same unit in combat each battle

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Post #: 17
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 4:21:35 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: janh
FoF in my eyes seems to be really good and I think now it might be worth a try. There are but (very) few points, which I hope would (soon?) be adressed in another patch.
One thing is this thread - there should be the option to micromanage brigade command! It gives a sense of presonality to the units and may give a kind of respect if you send in "Gen. Jubal Earlys brigade against Col. John Gibbons black hats".


There are over 1000 commanders in the game. There is a option that gives more generals than "normal" If u play with that u certainly going to have more generals than bde's in general. This means u do have the option in DC to assign a general to each and every unit.
Since this is micromanagement and not every1 would like that. U might have to do a bit of micromanagement to get right generals to right bde, but if u wana spend the time on that micromanagement, it is alrdy in the game. It just isnt a "nesessity" atm to accomandate the less micromanagement inclined.

quote:


Another thing seems to be the sometimes barely sensible use of cavalary in DC, which I read about a few times now.


Its situasional really. Yes there are times where AI seems to be a bit to overaggresive with cav and doesnt use it in the best way to say it mildly. Other times it uses them with much more finess and ability. Striking supply wagons, flanking and such. Neither thing is some thing that always happens so over many battles u would see both.

quote:


Also I have a few more questions: How does resupply work in DC?


Unit in DC have supply according to how much supply they have strategicly. Also there are supply wagons for resupply. Again how many depence on which tech upgrades u have and the combined strategic supply of the container(division normaly) the units belongs too.

quote:


And how can I cut off major formations of their supplies on the strategic maps?


Its a long discussion that i have tried answer in some of the very recent threads. U cant per say do it. Supply works differently than normal boardgames focusing on the economics but it is possible for units to go out of supply if they move into enemy territory without ganing provinces.

quote:


Can I place forts on exact locations on the map andf can I move units into exact spots (i.e. pixels) or do provinces only serve as a kind of "map squares"?


The latter. The provinces represent a fairly large area.

quote:


How would a "Jacksonian Shenando Campaign" or "the pensinsula campaign" with like 6 separate battles against 3 armies in a single week and single province work out in the FoF engine?


Each turn is 14 days so some thing like that would usually be representing in 1 battle with reinforcements. There are options determained by rolls modified by leaders and such pre DC. 1 is that enemy reinforcements come in at a slower pace. If moves are exact right u could end up with more than 1 battle in 1 province in a turn, but that isnt the norm.

quote:


And how is the setup of starting positions managed for player and AI in DC? Would AI be able to behave like a Hooker at chancellorsville, i.e. keep several corps mostly stationary in a more or less suited defensive line for serveral days or would it start moving them around earlier or later?


In theory it could happen. I have to say most battles are over in max 2 days some going to 3 through. Generally speaking each side set up at each end of the DC map.
What happens from there is largy depending on terrain and such. If u expect very historical recreations u might get disapointed, but i find the battles are fairly varied. Different maps and tactical option before DC. Setting up flanking, supprise attack and 10 more or so. In general the AI is fairly aggresive. Some times the AI do make mistakes and split its forces in effect leading to a Hooker manuver but its not as much design as the way the battle plays out by the AI.

quote:


I started my "Civil War career" with SSI games on a Commodore 64. That was Chickamauga, Gettysburg, Shiloh and Antietam. Really cool games at that time! I loved the features of having brigade, divisional and corps officers that could be transferred and impacted effeciency significantly and I loved being able to divide brigades into two halves to form wider fronts etc.


Commander means alot in DC and u can throughout ur turns organize ur armies deciding which leaders go where. U can split large bde, over 2500 men, into 2 during DCs.

quote:


Afterwards I of course was "captured" by Sid Meiers Gettysburg and Antietam, which like todays MadMinute Games 1st and 2nd Manassas being 3D with detailed regimental formations and single guns are still great. However, I hate that the multi-days battles like gettysburg & 2nd manssases are broken down into single small scenarios or even large battlefield in smaller maps. Ok, you don't need such a refined AI if you only put like 2 corps fighting against each other for 2h over a limited ground, but I really miss the feel of decisions TRUELY impacting the whole next day(s) fighting, deciding upon keeping units in reserve etc...I hope you know what I mean.


Since the DC in FoF is at a higher level units being bde and that the game isnt solely focused on battles the HW is ofc not quiet as detailed as MMGs Mannasas for example. That said IMO it plays out fairly historical by the design, but no i wouldnt i say that HW in FoF is as detailed and rich as MMGs Mannasas game battle wise, cuz of above. U do get lots of options and deciding which units get which weapons and such that is out of scale of the more tactical games. Commander, command ratings of divsion and so on. So it isnt simple just not as detailed as the games that focus soly on the tactical.
Because of the upping of scale u do see the DC from a higher POV. That ofc alters how it plays.

quote:


Of course what I would dream of would be a combination of FoF and the MMG engine, i.e. playing detailed combat on randomly generated -or even better sometimes historic - 3D battle fields with detailed units, weapons, weather, visiblity, and generals that can have their own minds and need not to be "steered into the exact locations" but "get their orders". Is there any chance in the future that FoF might extend into that direction? Or might it be possible to write a kind of export/import function that may export FOFs detailed battles into a MMG scenario file and afterwards reimports the battle results and losses?


Yes that would be a dream, but if im to look at it realisticly. That would almost require the resources to make 2 games. I think its going to be hard to ever find a game that has a broader scope, incooporating both the strategic and then be tactically and be as focused on the tactical part, as a game made solely for the tactical part.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus


< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/12/2007 4:28:59 PM >

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 18
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 4:22:14 PM   
Gray_Lensman


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Is there any game benefit to having a general directly attached to a brigade, other than the benefit received from the General actually in command of the division container?

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Post #: 19
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 4:26:13 PM   
Walloc

 

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Yup. A general directly attached gives a combat bonus. Cant remember OTOH if he can help recover from routes but some thing tells me no. I could be wrong tho.

< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/12/2007 4:27:58 PM >

(in reply to Gray_Lensman)
Post #: 20
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 4:28:45 PM   
Gray_Lensman


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Damn, I've been keeping most of the "Poor", "Bad" ones, etc. locked up in a Federal pen in Buffalo, NY.

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Post #: 21
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 4:30:02 PM   
Walloc

 

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Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
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i do same im to bored to assign them all and the bonus when poor isnt that high, oh does thís mean i can sell generals on Ebay too Gil?

Rasmus

Edit: thinking stray thots. Instead of gold farmers in Differnt MMPORGs i could sell a service playing a specific battle or turn through with more or less succes, ofc
Wonder what that would be called. Im not chinease and im not farming gold....

< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/12/2007 5:49:12 PM >

(in reply to Gray_Lensman)
Post #: 22
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 4:32:27 PM   
Gray_Lensman


Posts: 640
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Usually, I execute "Fremont"  

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Post #: 23
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 4:35:43 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Well there is a way. Put Fremont in charge of a single horrid bde in a division that im going to disband any how. Charge into CSA territory so when he loses a battle he cant retreat and is captured.

Dont have to demote him then... yes i know its free in first turn, but still i find that way just as gamey and more evil!

Shhhhhhh, can be used for other annoyance's too not to mention any names.

Yeah yeah i know, but these thing just pop into my head with out me trying.

< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/12/2007 4:39:41 PM >

(in reply to Gray_Lensman)
Post #: 24
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 4:50:53 PM   
Gray_Lensman


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Hmm, would another annoyance have the initials "Butler"?  Nah, he's too politically connected to treat that way, NOT!

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Post #: 25
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 5:18:35 PM   
dude

 

Posts: 399
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From: Fairfax Virginia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Well there is a way. Put Fremont in charge of a single horrid bde in a division that im going to disband any how. Charge into CSA territory so when he loses a battle he cant retreat and is captured.

Dont have to demote him then... yes i know its free in first turn, but still i find that way just as gamey and more evil!

Shhhhhhh, can be used for other annoyance's too not to mention any names.

Yeah yeah i know, but these thing just pop into my head with out me trying.



... don't generals left alone in an enemy occupied province run the risk of being captured? (I don't have the rules handy to look that up nor have I tested that...) If so... uh... just give him orders to scout out Richmond....

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(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 26
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 5:26:09 PM   
Gray_Lensman


Posts: 640
Joined: 4/10/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

<snip>

Edit: thinking stray thots. Instead of gold farmers in Differnt MMPORGs i could sell a service playing a specific battle of turn through with more or less succes, ofc
Wonder what that would be called. Im not chinease and im not farming gold....


Hmm, maybe called "FoF Merc"! (Mercenary) or "Gamer for Hire"

You could advertise in "Gamer of Fortune"!

< Message edited by Gray_Lensman -- 6/12/2007 5:28:01 PM >


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You've GOT to hold them back!

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Post #: 27
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 5:44:31 PM   
Walloc

 

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From: Denmark
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... don't generals left alone in an enemy occupied province run the risk of being captured? (I don't have the rules handy to look that up nor have I tested that...) If so... uh... just give him orders to scout out Richmond....

No they dont. So u have to attach a lousy bde sadly ;-)

< Message edited by Walloc -- 6/12/2007 5:46:14 PM >

(in reply to dude)
Post #: 28
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 6:04:39 PM   
dude

 

Posts: 399
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Fairfax Virginia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

... don't generals left alone in an enemy occupied province run the risk of being captured? (I don't have the rules handy to look that up nor have I tested that...) If so... uh... just give him orders to scout out Richmond....

No they dont. So u have to attach a lousy bde sadly ;-)


...drat... too bad. "We need some volunteers for a suci... I mean scouting mission to Richmond... You'll have the honor of being led by our best General for the job.... General Freemont."

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Post #: 29
RE: 1 Stars attached to Brigades - 6/12/2007 7:26:43 PM   
Gil R.


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janh,
I believe that your questions have mostly been answered, but feel that I should add two things:
1) As I wrote yesterday, we did not program it so that you can permanently attach brigadier generals to brigades, mainly because this would be too much micromanagement for most players and thus potentially alienate players and drive off potential customers. That said, we are planning an expansion pack for later in the year, and one of our big areas of focus will be making the generals part of the game much more multi-faceted, and one thing we might do is what you suggest. (If we did it, it would have to be a game option that people can toggle off if they don't like it.) So, if you and others add this idea to the Wish List thread, it will definitely be considered when the time comes.
2) You're not the first to suggest an alliance between FOF and MMG. (And, I've noticed, the same suggestion has been made for AGEOD and MMG. MMG's ears must be constantly burning.) I'm not sure how well the two systems would mesh, but this is something to keep in mind for the future.

(in reply to dude)
Post #: 30
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