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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Sweep one's own base? Page: [1]
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Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 1:45:51 AM   
ctangus


Posts: 2153
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
Status: offline 		I just staged a successful paradrop and suspect my opponent will be flying LRCAP over my new base to intercept further transport flights.

Can I order a sweep over my new base? I never tried such a thing before & I'm not sure if it will work.

Alternately, I'll be flying in a large portion of a base force tomorrow & could stage some CAP there. Anyone have an idea on how to best protect my transport planes?
Post #: 1
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 2:01:56 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline 		Well, a quick test shows that it is possible to assign a friendly base as the sweep's target but I have no idea if that will interact with any LRCAP.  I suspect they will fight but there are enough "quirks" in the programming that I won't bet anything on it.

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Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


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Post #: 2
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 2:34:23 AM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline 		I'm quite sure that it will not work, but try it anyway.

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RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 3:20:35 AM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		You can accoplish the same thing by flying LR CAP over your base. Both LR CAPs should engage each other.

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RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 3:54:24 AM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

You can accoplish the same thing by flying LR CAP over your base. Both LR CAPs should engage each other.

This is true but it occurs to me that you could get hit big time by the distance penalty for LRCAP...the one that says the number of planes flying LRCAP is inversley proportional to th range. If sweep works you might actually get more planes flying, but I'm not sure if they will really engage the enemy.

I would say if the hex in question is half or less the operational range of your fighters, fly LRCAP, otherwise I would think about sweep.

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Post #: 5
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 4:05:52 AM   
ctangus


Posts: 2153
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
Status: offline 		It's 6 hexes away from my nearest base. (I should have a closer base in about 3 days.) Nearby I have P-38Js (8/11), P-47Ds (5/6), and F4U-1s (4/5).

I decided to cover all the options. F4Us on CAP, P-47s on sweep, P-38s on LRCAP. I'm curious how this will turn out - do any of them engage and which ones? Though possibly it's just a false alarm and I'm worrying too much...

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RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 5:07:16 AM   
dtravel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

You can accoplish the same thing by flying LR CAP over your base. Both LR CAPs should engage each other.

But they don't.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


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Post #: 7
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 9:31:29 AM   
GoofTrooper


Posts: 54
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: USA
Status: offline 		How about setting one of your fighter sqd. on escort with the airdrop base as the target?

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RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 9:51:13 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		Escort won't go with transports.

You can order one of your unit to sweep your own base, but I have never seen them fly... I don't think it work. If the target is an enemy base, or an enemy unit in a non-base hex it flies most of the times (weather permitting) but if the target is an enemy unit in a friendly base, I never saw a sweep take off.

The only case where enemy (LR)CAP flying in the same hex will engage is in the air transport phase. So if you fly either CAP or LRCAP (or a combination of both) and your opponent flies LRCAP over the target, fighter of both sides will fight before the transport are engaged.

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RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/13/2007 4:55:34 PM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ctangus
Though possibly it's just a false alarm and I'm worrying too much...

There is no such thing against a crafty PBEM opponent.

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RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/14/2007 12:53:28 AM   
ctangus


Posts: 2153
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From: Boston, Mass.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005


quote:

ORIGINAL: ctangus
Though possibly it's just a false alarm and I'm worrying too much...

There is no such thing against a crafty PBEM opponent.


Ain't that the truth. I've been spanked plenty of times in this game already...

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Post #: 11
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/14/2007 1:26:16 AM   
eloso


Posts: 335
Joined: 5/28/2006
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area, USA
Status: offline 		I just did this in one of my PBEMs. The situation is slightly different which may be the difference between working and not working.

I own Mandalay.
The Japanese just crossed the river on the previous day.

I had a hunch that my opponent would be flying LRCAP over the base to protect his land formations.

The sweep came from Imphal. My bomber formations are stationed in Calcutta and Dacca.

Here is how it played out:

My opponent's sweep:

Day Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
Ki-46-II Dinah x 3

No Japanese losses

My sweep:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 4th Mixed Regiment, at 33,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged

My bombers:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 4th Mixed Regiment, at 33,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 57
B-25C Mitchell x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 11 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
89 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 3000 feet
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 3000 feet
6 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
6 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
12 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
5 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
9 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 3000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 3000 feet
3 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
3 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
2 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
3 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
2 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet
3 x Blenheim IV bombing at 7000 feet

I've done stuff like this several times this game. I will note that it doesn't always happen in the order that I prefer it to happen (sweep first).

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Post #: 12
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/14/2007 1:45:00 AM   
ctangus


Posts: 2153
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
Status: offline 		Interesting that your sweep mission flew.

I just ran the turn in my game. I did get a report of my transport planes being intercepted (looks like it wasn't a false alarm!) My sweep mission didn't fly, but per the ops report, both my fighters on CAP and my fighters on LRCAP were credited with kills.

For good news I didn't lose a single transport plane due to air-to-air combat. I lost 4 to ops losses, but that could have happened at any of several places on the map.

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Post #: 13
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/14/2007 3:56:49 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline 		Interesting.  I know from my own experience that (LR)CAP vs. (LR)CAP will not engage during the AM and PM Air Ops phases.  I've had air combats in hexes where the enemy had CAP, I sent in LRCAP, and then some other mission to attack.  My LRCAP shows in the combat animations, but does not engage and does not show up in the Combat Report.

But then I have always had the combat animations on.  There are no combat animations for the Air Transport phase.  I wonder if LRCAP would engage CAP if animations were turned off? 

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to ctangus)
Post #: 14
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/14/2007 10:37:08 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		Combat animation on/off won't affect it. LRCAP will engage enemy CAP/LRCAP only in the supply flying phase.

OSO interesting that your sweep flew... so I will continue to try but it never worked for me.

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Post #: 15
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/15/2007 1:37:42 AM   
eloso


Posts: 335
Joined: 5/28/2006
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe the catch is enemy land forces have to be present. I don't know why it worked but I have had it work a couple of times already in this game. Maybe the sweeping fighters need to be based elsewhere like my instance. In all of my cases the fighters flew from a different base and there were enemy LCU present in the hex.

I haven't tried to conduct a sweep mission on the same base that the fighters were at. The other times I did this the bombing missions flew first and were beaten up pretty badly by the enemy LRCAP and then the sweep flew subsequently.

I've been making an effort to keep my bombers back from the front to keep them in action. The allies don't have long range fighters to provide escort early on and this has just been my work around to accomplish the mission.

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Post #: 16
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 6/15/2007 3:56:42 AM   
ctangus


Posts: 2153
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO

Maybe the catch is enemy land forces have to be present.


That makes sense in a strange WITP kind of way.

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Post #: 17
RE: Sweep one's own base? - 1/14/2008 4:01:54 PM   
viberpol


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From: Gizycko, Poland, EU
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ctangus


quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO

Maybe the catch is enemy land forces have to be present.


That makes sense in a strange WITP kind of way.


This is true.

You can sweep owned base only if there is enemy LCU.
What is more, the sweep is being linked to an enemy unit, which means it can be divided even if flying from the same base.

I had the following results (playing as Japan) from sweep ordered from Chichi Jima over Iwo Jima recently invaded by Allies:

-------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 4th Marine Division, at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 31

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 5
FM-2 Wildcat x 63
F6F Hellcat x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
FM-2 Wildcat: 36 destroyed
F6F Hellcat: 3 destroyed

-------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 37th US Division, at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
J2M Jack x 38
N1K2-J George x 17

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 27
F6F Hellcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 26 destroyed
F6F Hellcat: 5 destroyed

So as you see, the AI divided my sweep over two different Allied LCUs in this hex.


< Message edited by viberpol -- 1/14/2008 4:04:07 PM >

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RE: Sweep one's own base? - 1/14/2008 5:56:08 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, A sweep over own base will engage enemy LRCAP assigned over base (you can assign LRCAP over enemy base)
Your CAP will engage enemy sweeps/recon/bombers
Your Sweep will engage enemy LRCAP
enemy LRCAP can be assigned to intercept supply/troop transports or Paradrops

< Message edited by Mogami -- 1/14/2008 5:57:52 PM >

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