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lack of demo versions - 6/13/2007 1:17:16 PM

Sneer

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hi
something for matrix staff
there are many new games - some of them are remakes of old hits
it is nice
but none of them has any demo version available
many players / including me / if have doubts about new purchase wants to have access to demo as it helps a lot in making right decision
i know that it is additional job but it is probably most important tool in evaluating future purchase

Matrix - let us test what we want to buy

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 12:18:13 AM

TonyE

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amen :)

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 12:37:58 AM

JudgeDredd

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Demos always put me off...they never seem to be deep enough or come with enough documentation to allow me to make a good call.

I think the absolute best way of telling if I like a game is by reading and AAR of the game.

If done properly and with in game pics, it can be the best thing for giving you a really good feel for the game.

A good AAR determines if I buy a game or not...

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Alba gu' brath

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 12:51:16 AM

David Heath

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Hi Guys

I must agree with Judge Dredd here. That pretty well sums up why you see so few demos for our products.

David

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 1:32:23 AM

TheHellPatrol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Demos always put me off...they never seem to be deep enough or come with enough documentation to allow me to make a good call.

I think the absolute best way of telling if I like a game is by reading and AAR of the game.

If done properly and with in game pics, it can be the best thing for giving you a really good feel for the game.

A good AAR determines if I buy a game or not...

Amen

.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 1:44:28 AM

CJMello63

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I generally like word of mouth by people experienced with the game. I have probably missed a few good games by fumbling through a demo and giving up rather than reading up on it more and getting opinions of others.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 1:48:12 AM

freeboy

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While I like the conceipt of a demo, few have ever been actually influential... AAR word of mouth and company quality.. ie combat missions or decisive battles, I know I like them already and trusted the game developer/designer. Good luck and read those AARs!

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 2:02:34 AM

Arctic Blast

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Demos don't tend to work too well with strategy titles. They either aren't long enough to really get a feel for the system involved, or they feature a stripped down version of the game, so you don't really get a good idea of how the full game works. I tend to go off of word of mouth.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 5:27:38 AM

TonyE

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Well, glad to hear input on this, thanks all. My frame of reference for this is Harpoon (Classic) where the demo is a set of 13 scenarios that so engross some people they take a while to get to buying the whole game. The request stream for Harpoon 3 demos is also consistent, not huge, but a couple every month. It hadn't even occured to me that a demo would be considered a bad thing unless the game was bad, very glad you created the topic Sneer and that a few have chimed in to broaden my understanding, even though it doesn't change my opinion.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 5:43:38 AM

goodwoodrw

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A few years ago Battlefront put out a demo of CM, I reckon I played the 3 scenarios on that demo more than a lot games, especially the VOD scenario. Talking about Battlefront, if Matrixgames had of released a demo of Battlefront, I'd be $60 richer today though

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 9:34:38 AM

Zap

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I just want to know does his still dress like his avatar depics him.?

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 9:39:18 AM

ravinhood

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I agree with JD (unusual), but, yeah a good AAR is worth a 1000 demos that are incomplete and really don't show a lot of what needs to be seen or known about in a game. Reviews by socalled professionals are AAR's, but, those are incomplete as well for the most part. They are on a fixed time limit to get the review out, use a lot of cheats and rifle thru most of the content to get to the end just to make yet another biased opinion anyway. AAR's are definitely informative a great deal. I'd rather read several beta testers AAR's than one professional review myself. In fact Matrixgames should start making this a rule for the beta testers free game, to complete the contract they must write one indepth AAR for the game they have been testing. It must be ohhh 500 words or more and not a lot of A's and I's. lol

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 9:41:48 AM

Charles2222

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I have NEVER bought a game based on an AAR, as they seem much too fanboyish to me. I don't want to get bored with somebody's imagination of making more out of it than it is. And, yes, I have bought games based on demos before. The MAIN thing about a demo, not so much the Matrix titles mind you, that is important is to try and get a clue as to whether your machine will handle the action, and in the case of ToW, that is a VERY important consideration.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 9:55:38 AM

ravinhood

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I've also always thought that people that want a demo really just want a free version of the game as well. I've seen some demos even have some that there's so much in the demo you don't need to buy the full game. Like DOOM origional. That one demo was quite enough for me to play and also see that I am not particularly fond of shooters. FPSer demos you really get a lot of game for nothing. Same with RTS games, you can get enough out of a lot of demos never having to buy the final product since they all pretty much play the same and the end game rts is pretty much like the beginning game rts only a different era, but, same grunt rushes still work. I remember I got Baseball Mogul 2004 I think it was. Took the Texas Rangers to the World series the first year in the demo (all that it would allow you to play) lol, never saw any reason to buy that full product after that. Fact is I don't think I've ever bought a game that I played the demo of. It's always been a lot of reviews or player feedback or AAR's that determined if I bought a full game (back in the day when I bought full retail versions of games) haha Nowadays of course it doesn't matter. I'm going to wait until it's bargain bin anyways for the most part and fully patched which usually means waiting a year or so. There's a few exceptions, but, lately nothing has been worth buying full retail for me. I likes them $5 games though. ;)

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 10:31:48 AM

Sneer

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each AAR i saw was more or less enthusiastic about the game concerned - what doesn't mean game after purchasing was THAT good / or really worth purchasing for me/....
i have quite a lot of games that were installed on my comp few days or 1 week cos they looked nice - i have never moved back to them / i have enough money to not be restricted at this point but i'm demanding a well
if i have doubts i learned to stay of the title

pity is that i was thinking about playing sth new yesterday and wanted to check few promising demos ....
checked theater of war and wanted compare it to sth of matrixgames collection
but i understand this point of view

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 12:14:37 PM

Gibbon

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Few monthes, I would have agreed with you guys.

Now, I have updated (?) to Vista and I can tell I've learned the hard way to try to get the demo running on my system before to actually use my credit card.

Cheers

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 12:21:32 PM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I've also always thought that people that want a demo really just want a free version of the game as well. I've seen some demos even have some that there's so much in the demo you don't need to buy the full game. Like DOOM origional. That one demo was quite enough for me to play and also see that I am not particularly fond of shooters. FPSer demos you really get a lot of game for nothing. Same with RTS games, you can get enough out of a lot of demos never having to buy the final product since they all pretty much play the same and the end game rts is pretty much like the beginning game rts only a different era, but, same grunt rushes still work. I remember I got Baseball Mogul 2004 I think it was. Took the Texas Rangers to the World series the first year in the demo (all that it would allow you to play) lol, never saw any reason to buy that full product after that. Fact is I don't think I've ever bought a game that I played the demo of. It's always been a lot of reviews or player feedback or AAR's that determined if I bought a full game (back in the day when I bought full retail versions of games) haha Nowadays of course it doesn't matter. I'm going to wait until it's bargain bin anyways for the most part and fully patched which usually means waiting a year or so. There's a few exceptions, but, lately nothing has been worth buying full retail for me. I likes them $5 games though. ;)

Texas Rangers

I was that way with MOHAA for quite a while, because there's just so much to that one scenario. I really got off on hearing those guys in stereo outflanking me and such, speaking German. I never did finish that demo mission though I tried a great deal. I have bought the product a few months back, and aside from playing the introduction portion of the game I haven't got around to playing it. I will one of these days, but at least the demo made it clear to me that my computer could handle a good portion of it.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 12:26:12 PM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gibbon

Few monthes, I would have agreed with you guys.

Now, I have updated (?) to Vista and I can tell I've learned the hard way to try to get the demo running on my system before to actually use my credit card.

Cheers

Yes, Vista must give you all sorts of dimensions of worry that a lot of us have forgotten about. Man, to think even the simplest turn-based game could be a problem for you!

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 12:30:04 PM

JudgeDredd

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quote:

In fact Matrixgames should start making this a rule for the beta testers free game

We shouldn't make a habit of this, but that's a good idea

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 12:38:41 PM

JudgeDredd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gibbon

Few monthes, I would have agreed with you guys.

Now, I have updated (?) to Vista and I can tell I've learned the hard way to try to get the demo running on my system before to actually use my credit card.

Cheers

I can understand that...and from a "performance" pov, a demo is a good idea. But from an OS pov, then it's really down to the developer to make sure it's OS compatible.

Of course the developer may test on a new OS and say it's compatible...but what about all the different configurations of drivers and hardware kicking about. Is it realistic nowadays for a developer to make sure it's compatible with all those configurations? I don't think it's possible.

I can understand why a demo would be wanted...but a well written aar helps me decide. If I can get into the AAR and I enjoy it, then it's a fair bet (and hasn't failed me so far) that I'll enjoy the game.

Of course, there are plenty of games where I have not read an AAR and bought the game and enjoyed it. There are also plenty of times where I've enjoyed a demo and the game has been absolute crud...A demo is very useful in the FPS genre...from a strategy pov, I don't think so. Not for me.

One might note that whilst I Every game which I read an AAR for and bought, I've never disliked that game. Whereas there are plenty of games where I played a demo, bought the game and didn't like it.

Maybe there's something screwy about my judgment!

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 7:31:31 PM

darken92

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Demos always put me off...they never seem to be deep enough or come with enough documentation to allow me to make a good call.

I think the absolute best way of telling if I like a game is by reading and AAR of the game.

If done properly and with in game pics, it can be the best thing for giving you a really good feel for the game.

A good AAR determines if I buy a game or not...

Yes and no. I purchased CoG and found I hated the game. It has put me off purchasing FoF. In fact it has made me cautious on purchasing Carriers at War.

I will be purchasing the Campaign Series, Empire and Arms and World in Flames. Unless I know the game I am now much mare careful. If I can not trial the game and I am iffy on buying I suspect my money will stay in my pocket.

Its not that the games are bad but they are not for me. Being able to trial the game may have made me agree to purchase it. Having said that I am not sure it makes good business sense for Matrix, I am sure there is a cost involved and it may not generate enough additional sales.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 8:31:30 PM

ravinhood

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I also kinda look at this need for demos like going into a store and saying "can I test that milk before I buy it?" "Ummm I'd like a bite out of a loaf of bread before I buy it please" "Cook me up some of that bacon and ham and a couple of eggs before I buy them please I'd like to test their taste, texture and combined flavors" "Well, thanks for all the demos, but, I'm so full now I hardly need to buy ANY of these products now". ;)

As an aside I recently got the full version of "Call of Duty" Game of the Year edition (whatever that means lol). It was $4.25 Now I bought it knowing full well I don't particularly like FPSers, they just bore me and they are linear, I hate linear games. But, anyways I loaded it up and played I think 4 or 5 missions before I couldn't swallow anymore of it. It was just too much of the same, heavy german bunkers blazing machine guns that never run out of ammo lol supid stuff like that. I slaughtered most everything with grenades both American and German vs guns ablazing as all these shooters appear to emphasis. I basically paid $4.25 for a demo of the game a full version demo mind you, but, in 4 or 5 missions I found the game suked. Contrary to "GUN" which was a very fun action shooter game in first person that wasn't as linear as CoD is. "GUN" was fun, COD suked. lol

What would be nice is if there were some way to setup the full game online, and let people play it for 1 day free. That's plenty of time to see if you like the game and then you don't get a free demo that gives you as much enjoyment as the full game without having to pay for a full game retail or bargain bin. ;) I guess to keep those from exploiting the online freebie is record IP addresses and then lock them out after 24 hours. I know some can get around this, but, I'd say the majority wouldn't be able to.

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 6/14/2007 8:38:56 PM >

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/14/2007 9:08:49 PM

TonyE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
What would be nice is if there were some way to setup the full game online, and let people play it for 1 day free. That's plenty of time to see if you like the game and then you don't get a free demo that gives you as much enjoyment as the full game without having to pay for a full game retail or bargain bin. ;) I guess to keep those from exploiting the online freebie is record IP addresses and then lock them out after 24 hours. I know some can get around this, but, I'd say the majority wouldn't be able to.

Well, the Red Orchestra people via Steam have made two multi-day guest passes available to their customers to give out to others. Similary, many Steam games do the 'free weekend' or whatever it may be for people to demo out the full games. I guess that means the idea is more than possible. With Harpoon Classic we also do a lot of expiring game executables when beta testing so that even if the programs escape the beta test group, they have only a limited lifetime.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/15/2007 2:20:03 AM

ravinhood

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I didn't know steam did that TonyE thanks for the info.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/15/2007 2:31:15 PM

Sneer

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you don't taste milk but ... you don't buy a car without checking it
so this kind of arguments are not valid for me

it was trial version of DDO to make me paying for few month for this MMO as well as EVE online currently
without trial versions developers would never see my money - they offered 10-14 gameplay to taste what they offer and they got client
as well as many games i bought in last 5-6 months after i decided to make WITP retired
i stopped buying untried games
there are many good games but some of them are not best for me that's all

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/15/2007 5:24:02 PM

David Heath

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sneer

you don't taste milk but ... you don't buy a car without checking it
so this kind of arguments are not valid for me

it was trial version of DDO to make me paying for few month for this MMO as well as EVE online currently
without trial versions developers would never see my money - they offered 10-14 gameplay to taste what they offer and they got client
as well as many games i bought in last 5-6 months after i decided to make WITP retired
i stopped buying untried games
there are many good games but some of them are not best for me that's all

We can fully understand why you would want to try it first but with most if not all of our games you must have a manual and a lot of scenarios to get a feel for the game. This is a lot more work then making a demo of one level for a FPS. We have found in the past the demos do very little in helping making customers minds on buying a game. We find customers mini reviews, AAR and other reviews really do the best in letting the gamers tell other gamers if they like it or not.

David

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/15/2007 11:43:50 PM

Sneer

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it is bussines argument and i understand it / it is always trade off for company /
all i wrote is my personal point of view

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/16/2007 1:25:21 AM

pad152

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I too would like to see demos for more of Matrix Games, I know not all games (like WITP/WPO) fit into a demo. It's about 50/50 with me, when it comes to demos, if I like demo I will buy the game, there are games like Domminions 3 that I never would have purchased without a demo and games like Distant Guns that I didn't purchase due to the demo. Now days, with a lot of new games you need a demo just to see if the damm thing will even work on your system.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/16/2007 6:31:43 PM

NefariousKoel

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I can't always judge a game by it's demo. Unless it's complete junk, but you'll have heard that before even getting a demo usually.

An example would be the time I played the first Starfleet Command demo back in 98/99 or so. It only had a single battle setup. While intriguing, I couldn't figure out how to do much or how things worked. I got my @ss handed to me. I didn't purchase it at the time.

Awhile later, I found it at a lower price and decided to make an impulse buy. I kicked myself for making too quick an uninformed judgement and not getting it earlier.

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RE: lack of demo versions - 6/20/2007 4:27:14 AM

crivens

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I'm on the "demo" side. My gaming budget is tiny, so the ability to try a game before buying is essential for me. I've ignored many games due to poor demos and I've bought some excellent titles (Combat Mission) as a result.

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