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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Combat Engineers Cant Build?

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Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 8:35:47 PM

mjk428

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Hi,

I'm currently having a problem with the 34th Combat Engineers out of Pearl not being willing to build anything.

The game has been patched to the current hotfix version and then modified with CHS/Extended Map (which I'm so far very impressed with - AB's map, or something like it, should become the standard IMO).

Anyway, the only other Combat Engineer unit that I'm aware of is in the Phillipines and I can't say for sure if it is contributing to fort building but I don't think it has been. Repairs & building have been very slow in that stack. I just didn't realize why until I finally moved the 34th and found them to be useless for their mission.

I haven't played the game in over a year. Did any of the subsequent patches or does the CHS mod intentionally remove the building ability from combat engineers? I'm pretty sure they used to contribute but then again, mech forces were helping build things back then too.

So does anybody know: bug or not?

Thanks for any help you can provide for me on this.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 8:37:53 PM

KDonovan

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IIRC, combat engineers only build if non-combat engineers are present

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 8:39:29 PM

dtravel

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I can't prove one way or another about building, but I do know that combat engineers will repair damaged bases. The common wisdom IIRC is that combat engineers do not build or repair, that only regular engineers do.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 9:22:43 PM

mjk428

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

IIRC, combat engineers only build if non-combat engineers are present

Thanks.

Do you know if this is documented? I haven't been able to find anything in the (admittedly unreliable) manual that segregates engineers. They show up in the base info along with the others. Maybe they should show as "+XXX" like seaplane air support - assuming of course this isn't just a bug.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 9:29:52 PM

AmiralLaurent

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I don't think combat engineers can build or repair anything. It's difficult to say so as all Japanese units having them will also include "normal" engineers, but I see them as using flame-throwers and other bangalore, so far more useful to destroy than to build.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 9:30:55 PM

mjk428

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I can't prove one way or another about building, but I do know that combat engineers will repair damaged bases.� The common wisdom IIRC is that combat engineers do not build or repair, that�only regular engineers do.

Good to know about the repair. They didn't seem to be contributing much to the damage repair at Clark in my game but I can't say for certain since they weren't alone. Also, I"ve seen empty bases eventually repair their airfield damage back to zero - so combat engineers repairing damage isn't so special. ;)

Thank You.

< Message edited by mjk428 -- 6/13/2007 9:34:02 PM >

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 9:43:47 PM

mjk428

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

I don't think combat engineers can build or repair anything. It's difficult to say so as all Japanese units having them will also include "normal" engineers, but I see them as using flame-throwers and other bangalore, so far more useful to destroy than to build.

Thanks. So far the consensus seems to be that they're working, or not "working" in this case, as designed. If that's true then they really shouldn't be pooled with "regular" engineers in the info screen.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 10:23:24 PM

jwilkerson

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Combat engineers will act like normal engineers as long as there is at least one (i.e. greater than zero) "regular" engineers present in the same hex. But, if there are combat engineers in the next with no "regular" engineers then they will not build.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/13/2007 10:41:13 PM

mjk428

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Combat engineers will act like normal engineers as long as there is at least one (i.e. greater than zero) "regular" engineers present in the same hex. But, if there are combat engineers in the next with no "regular" engineers then they will not build.

Thank you very much. That's good to know.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/14/2007 3:41:11 AM

dtravel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Combat engineers will act like normal engineers as long as there is at least one (i.e. greater than zero) "regular" engineers present in the same hex. But, if there are combat engineers in the next with no "regular" engineers then they will not build.

Then you've got a bug. I have had a unit that contained only combat engineers (I think it was one of the Marine Airborne units) alone in a base that they had just captured repair some of the airfield damage on their own.

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This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

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Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/14/2007 4:16:08 AM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Combat engineers will act like normal engineers as long as there is at least one (i.e. greater than zero) "regular" engineers present in the same hex. But, if there are combat engineers in the next with no "regular" engineers then they will not build.

Then you've got a bug. I have had a unit that contained only combat engineers (I think it was one of the Marine Airborne units) alone in a base that they had just captured repair some of the airfield damage on their own.

You may see a tiny amount of damage repaired even if no engineers are present, especially on small bases. The game will give you up to 5 engineering points "for free" (native labor?). But this is divided by the combined size of the AF and port, so the 5 free points rapidly become nothing. But main point is that CE devices will not figure into the total if there are 0 regular engineers at the base (before the 5 freebees are added).

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/14/2007 9:30:36 AM

dtravel

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Another undocumented feature.

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This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/14/2007 8:16:40 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Another undocumented feature.�

Natives can also blow up facilities on capture of a base (even without engineers present) - someone once mentioned they thought they had captured Palembang in pristine condition - but civilians destroyed about 70% of the oil when he captured it.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/14/2007 10:56:56 PM

mjk428

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Combat engineers will act like normal engineers as long as there is at least one (i.e. greater than zero) "regular" engineers present in the same hex. But, if there are combat engineers in the next with no "regular" engineers then they will not build.

Well unfortunately this doesn't seem to be true for me at least (Hotfix,CHS,Extended).

I moved the 34th from the H.I. to Christmas Island where there is a static base force with 3 engineers attached. After 3 turns the "0" port was still only 6% of the way towards being a "1". So even though the base now shows 84 engineers present they had no impact on the building process. Over 6k of supply there, so that shouldn't be the prob.

Maybe they need "normal" engineers from the same unit or from a unit that arrives with them?

It seems to me they should either operate like regular engineers or not. I realize this isn't a big deal but still... These guys have been moved twice now; risking sub attacks. Thankfully they can't ride in minesweepers or they'd be dead for sure. For some reason those crazy IJN sub drivers can't resist attacking packs of minesweepers. ;)

< Message edited by mjk428 -- 6/14/2007 10:57:14 PM >

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/15/2007 7:59:03 PM

treespider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Combat engineers will act like normal engineers as long as there is at least one (i.e. greater than zero) "regular" engineers present in the same hex. But, if there are combat engineers in the next with no "regular" engineers then they will not build.

Well unfortunately this doesn't seem to be true for me at least (Hotfix,CHS,Extended).

I moved the 34th from the H.I. to Christmas Island where there is a static base force with 3 engineers attached. After 3 turns the "0" port was still only 6% of the way towards being a "1". So even though the base now shows 84 engineers present they had no impact on the building process. Over 6k of supply there, so that shouldn't be the prob.

Maybe they need "normal" engineers from the same unit or from a unit that arrives with them?

It seems to me they should either operate like regular engineers or not. I realize this isn't a big deal but still... These guys have been moved twice now; risking sub attacks. Thankfully they can't ride in minesweepers or they'd be dead for sure. For some reason those crazy IJN sub drivers can't resist attacking packs of minesweepers. ;)

What you need is patience ...expanding anything from 0 is slow...after you hit 1 expansion will be rapid.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/15/2007 8:26:11 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Combat engineers will act like normal engineers as long as there is at least one (i.e. greater than zero) "regular" engineers present in the same hex. But, if there are combat engineers in the next with no "regular" engineers then they will not build.

Well unfortunately this doesn't seem to be true for me at least (Hotfix,CHS,Extended).

I moved the 34th from the H.I. to Christmas Island where there is a static base force with 3 engineers attached. After 3 turns the "0" port was still only 6% of the way towards being a "1". So even though the base now shows 84 engineers present they had no impact on the building process. Over 6k of supply there, so that shouldn't be the prob.

Maybe they need "normal" engineers from the same unit or from a unit that arrives with them?

It seems to me they should either operate like regular engineers or not. I realize this isn't a big deal but still... These guys have been moved twice now; risking sub attacks. Thankfully they can't ride in minesweepers or they'd be dead for sure. For some reason those crazy IJN sub drivers can't resist attacking packs of minesweepers. ;)

What you need is patience ...expanding anything from 0 is slow...after you hit 1 expansion will be rapid.

Odd - i have experienced the latter... i was trying to build up Norfolk Island, and stuck a zillion engineers there and supplies there... it got to 1 port and 1 AF relatively quickly - after that it was going up at MAYBE 1 point construction per day (if i just built the AF and stopped the port) - it was going to take about 4 months to build up to a level 2 AF... it didn't really seem like the number of engineers had much to do with the construction rate (withdrew a couple of units, and the rate didn't change).

this was pre-1.80 though, perhaps it has changed since...

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/15/2007 10:05:29 PM

dtravel

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It hasn't. If the SPS is above zero, building that first level of port or airfield usually can be done fairly quickly. On the other hand, if the SPS is zero, you're pretty much wasting your time.

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This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

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RE: Combat Engineers Cant Build? - 6/15/2007 11:18:38 PM

mjk428

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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

What you need is patience ...expanding anything from 0 is slow...after you hit 1 expansion will be rapid.

No, what I needed was the Army combat engineers to get off their arses and contribute to the war effort. :)

Christmas Island (CHS) has a base port value of (1) so 84 "regular" engineers would definitely show progress over the course of 3 days. Now with the paltry 3 that are left there, yes I would need patience - but happily instead of patience, I've sent some Seabees to do the trick.

I have since moved them (the 34th) from Christmas I. to Palmyra and they still make no difference to the build rate. I have concluded that, at least in CHS, combat engineers under normal circumstances DO NOT contribute to the port/airfield build rate. Which means they get to sit out the first months (maybe years?) of the war, because I don't plan on assaulting any fortified positions in the near future.

< Message edited by mjk428 -- 6/15/2007 11:21:00 PM >

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