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Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 1:54:45 AM

Kadrin

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
Status: offline

A few quick questions for players with knowledge of the Japanese production system.

1. Which aircraft factories auto-upgrade to what and when?

2. Which aircraft/armament factories and naval/merchant shipyards should I expand (if any)?

5. What exactly is the formula for calculating all that Heavy Industry Supply Production stuff?

And a couple questions in general.

6. Where should I draw most of my supply from for operations in the early war (invading the Philips, DEI, Solomans etc.)?

7. Are Japanese army dive bombers worth while?

And thats it I think.

Thanks.

[edited, found answers to 3 and 4 after searching a while

]

< Message edited by Kadrin -- 6/14/2007 2:57:30 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 2:03:00 AM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
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From: Super secret hidden base
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Japanese questions? Looks like English to me.

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RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 2:04:17 AM

Kadrin

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
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Would you like me to rewrite this using an Online translator?

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RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 2:07:43 AM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
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Amazingly I'm almost certain some of the JFBs here could read it.

Anway, sorry for the smart @$$ reply...its the end of my work day and I couldn't resist.

As an AFB, I can't answer your questions.

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RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 2:13:41 AM

Kadrin

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
Status: offline

I'm actually an allied fanboy as well, and took no offense to your remarks

.

Reason for these questions though is that I'm most likely going to take the Japanese side in a PBEM soon so I wanted a quick run through on the do's and do not's.

I was reading through the must read threads... and there is alot of them on Japanese production, which is alot of information to sort through. Was kinda hoping for a quicker more direct answer than searching through 11 different threads.

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RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 3:29:19 AM

Local Yokel

Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
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My two pennyworth as a novice Japanese player:

1. Appreciate you don't want to trawl links, but try this, and get Woos' graphic depiction of upgrade paths - I find this very helpful.

2. At start of our PBEM I am expanding A6M2 production to extract most I can from Zero bonus. Would also like to expand Ki-43 Oscar production to replace Ki-27 ASAP, but a lower priority than A6M's. I don't see enough benefit flowing from shipyard expansion to warrant it, at least in early stages.

3. Can't answer for no. of points required. I have halted Shinano, and will probably do likewise for late-war carriers. If the economy will take it, I may speed up Shoho, Hiyo (so she completes closer to Junyo's arrival) and the Akizuki DD's. But the economy probably won't take it.

4. I'm halting small AK's where they are actually consuming HI points. I have a substantial conversion programme of AR's and MLE's.

5. If I try to set it out, I'm sure to get it wrong. So I won't.

6. I am finding in CHS that only Osaka/Kobe is accumulating sufficient supply for regular draw downs. Shanghai may have a surplus too. Once you start capturing decent resource centres, you should find them generating a helpful contribution. In CHS look at Kendari and Kuala Lumpur: substantial resource centres here.

From my very limited experience, if you are maintaining a high operational tempo (and IMHO as Japanese, you should) you will consume supplies like crazy. To counter this, I am having to pare down parts of the economy to essentials: shut down R&D, no repairs on factories not yet in production, v. limited acceleration of naval construction. I anticipate consumption going even higher when I commit to sieges of Singapore and Manila, and I may accept the drain involved in shipping it overland to Singapore rather than offloading in a port near the siege that exposes my AK's to air attack. In my book, the pressing need for supply, supply, supply during the campaign in the SRA largely precludes expansion of the economy.

7. I have found the Ki-51's amazingly useful as strafers against his PT boats - set them to 100' altitude. Generally DB's are good against his merchants.

Hopefully people with far greater experience than I will point out the error of my ways!

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RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 3:29:28 AM

ctangus

Posts: 2153
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
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I'm no expert, but I also started playing Japan about 6 or 7 months ago after playing only the allies for a while. Since no one else has answered yet maybe I can help a bit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kadrin

1. Which aircraft factories auto-upgrade to what and when?

Depends on the scenario. Fire up the database editor and look up the plane type. The default upgrade for the airframe is also the auto-upgrade for its factory.

quote:

2. Which aircraft/armament factories and naval/merchant shipyards should I expand (if any)?

Nakajima engines for sure. A6M2s. Oscars. I'm noticing a need for more armament points. Slightly more vehicle production would be nice as well. More naval shipyards would also be nice, but are IMO a luxury until the SRA is fully secure & you know your full economic situation. I have more merchant shipyard capability than I need.

quote:

5. What exactly is the formula for calculating all that Heavy Industry Supply Production stuff?

Too complex for me to explain but I'd say use Woos's witpdecoder. It took me a month or two game-time but it's helped me understand Jap production a lot. I check the graphs that his utility provides every day and now feel I have a pretty good handle on how my economy is going.

quote:

6. Where should I draw most of my supply from for operations in the early war (invading the Philips, DEI, Solomans etc.)?

So far (two games) I'm drawing it all from the Home Islands. I'm sure a more experienced Japanese player could be more efficient in their supply usage, but I wouldn't depend on it for your first game.

quote:

7. Are Japanese army dive bombers worth while?

They're certainly useful in China - they don't face much AA there. Otherwise, no.

(in reply to Kadrin)

Post #: 7

RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 3:41:52 AM

Kadrin

Posts: 183
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From: Orange, California
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ctangus, Yokel, input is much appreciated.

Lots of things to look into in great detail. Oh boy this'll take some time.

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Post #: 8

RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 3:44:19 AM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
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From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctangus

I'm no expert, but I also started playing Japan about 6 or 7 months ago after playing only the allies for a while. Since no one else has answered yet maybe I can help a bit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kadrin

1. Which aircraft factories auto-upgrade to what and when?

Depends on the scenario. Fire up the database editor and look up the plane type. The default upgrade for the airframe is also the auto-upgrade for its factory.

quote:

2. Which aircraft/armament factories and naval/merchant shipyards should I expand (if any)?

Nakajima engines for sure. A6M2s. Oscars. I'm noticing a need for more armament points. Slightly more vehicle production would be nice as well. More naval shipyards would also be nice, but are IMO a luxury until the SRA is fully secure & you know your full economic situation. I have more merchant shipyard capability than I need.

quote:

5. What exactly is the formula for calculating all that Heavy Industry Supply Production stuff?

Too complex for me to explain but I'd say use Woos's witpdecoder. It took me a month or two game-time but it's helped me understand Jap production a lot. I check the graphs that his utility provides every day and now feel I have a pretty good handle on how my economy is going.

quote:

6. Where should I draw most of my supply from for operations in the early war (invading the Philips, DEI, Solomans etc.)?

So far (two games) I'm drawing it all from the Home Islands. I'm sure a more experienced Japanese player could be more efficient in their supply usage, but I wouldn't depend on it for your first game.

quote:

7. Are Japanese army dive bombers worth while?

They're certainly useful in China - they don't face much AA there. Otherwise, no.

ctangus is actually pretty close on most of these ...

Regarding question #2, also depends on whether you mean in the short run, or in the long run (the best answer changes over time) and whether you are playing with PDU on or off. And, I guess it depends on your playing style! But I'd say regardless you will need to expand your Mits factories in the long run, but not perhaps so much initially, especially if you don't plan on losing many Betty's or Sally's (I was unable to execute such a plan in my current game with Moses and have used a pile of Mits engines keeping the Betty and Sally inventories up.

And regards #6 .. I avoid like the plague, pulling much supply from the Home Islands until after I get the big oil and resource centers on line and the big convoys stabilized, otherwise you might suffer what some Japanese players call the "supply gap" which often kicks in somewhere between February and June 1942. We usually have primarily ourselves to blame, but pulling out too much supply and turning up the factories too far usually go hand in hand to cause the problem. Sometimes it is so bad it ends the game, so be warned anyway. I use a spread sheet to track all the items like oil, resources, heavy industry, etc., everything, that way you can see the trends and react as needed. Without using some means to track the trends, you will be flying blind and will likely run out of something. The effects of running out of something are your production stops and your supply dries up. Both are bad.

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RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 4:02:16 AM

Kadrin

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
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Well, you never plan to lose alot of planes, it just starts happening. (At least I don't ever plan on losing alot, it just happens

).

What you mentioned though about the supply is exactly what I feared. Which is why I asked where most Japanese players pull it from. So I guess the big thing is to only pull supply from the Home Islands only when you absolutely need to, otherwise get it somewhere else.

Again, appreciate the help.

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 10

RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 4:29:23 AM

Local Yokel

Posts: 1494
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From: Somerset, U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

And regards #6 .. I avoid like the plague, pulling much supply from the Home Islands until after I get the big oil and resource centers on line and the big convoys stabilized, otherwise you might suffer what some Japanese players call the "supply gap" which often kicks in somewhere between February and June 1942. We usually have primarily ourselves to blame, but pulling out too much supply and turning up the factories too far usually go hand in hand to cause the problem. Sometimes it is so bad it ends the game, so be warned anyway. I use a spread sheet to track all the items like oil, resources, heavy industry, etc., everything, that way you can see the trends and react as needed. Without using some means to track the trends, you will be flying blind and will likely run out of something. The effects of running out of something are your production stops and your supply dries up. Both are bad.

I would very much like to know what the warning signs are of such a supply gap opening up. I have been tracking by spreadsheet stockpiled totals of the economy's inputs and outputs, and see a steady decline in oil and resources (as I would expect, pending capture of additional centres), and a marginal growth of total supply. I'm also monitoring the economy with Woos' utility. As I said, I'm finding that the best accumulation of supply is at Osaka, and I'm not shipping it out of the Home Islands other than from there. At what point should I consider myself standing into danger? Am I at risk if supply at Osaka remains above the 100,000 level, if I'm not shipping from other Home Island bases? Are there other indicators of trouble for which I should be looking?

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Post #: 11

RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 5:19:04 AM

Mynok

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Joined: 11/30/2002
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I only play Japanese, and have done so since UV. Yes, you can call me a JFB. :)

quote:

6. Where should I draw most of my supply from for operations in the early war (invading the Philips, DEI, Solomans etc.)?

It's mostly going to come from the home islands for the initial month or so. Osaka is a good place to gather your AKs for shipping this around. Tokyo is a secondary source.

You should capture Palembang, Toboali, and Kendari early, as they can supply your efforts in the DEI and Burma easily. Make sure you have enough AKs in the area based at Singapore once you capture it.

quote:

7. Are Japanese army dive bombers worth while?

I use them as ground support in the DEI and Burma, as well as anti-sub naval search in the Formosa straights area, based in China and Formosa. Their short range doesn't hinder them so much in these tight waters, and they are quite good at getting hits on subs. I'm talking about Sonias here. The Anns are ok at ASW but should be upgraded soon.

If you have PDU on, you can upgrade Marys to Lilys, which will allow you to upgrade all IJA DBs to Lilys. This is kind of gamey to me, but if your opponent allows it, do it. Lilys are excellent ASW bombers, especially with high experience.

The supply gap will only arise if you expand/convert too many factories. I'm very judicious about this and don't have problems. Convert your obsolete engine factories to Nakajima on the first turn, and your Claudes to Zeros. Halt your factories building obsolete planes (like the Nate) but don't convert them right away. You aren't hurting for planes early on, and you need to build your HI pool. Turn off -rd factories for planes that won't arrive within the next year. Increase your armaments, and expand your small shipyards. Don't expand any HI early.

(in reply to Local Yokel)

Post #: 12

RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 7:53:29 AM

Yamato hugger

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Most of my Jap "conversions" are converting the R&D factories. For example, there are 320 Frank factories at Gumma that start the game damaged. I convert these to Tojos (the Tojo upgrades to the Frank anyway). And since they were damaged already anyways, I dont lose anything by doing it.

I do the same with the Betty 2 (converting to Betty 1), the Jill to Kate, Judy to Val, the more advanced A6Ms to A6M2s ect. All those factories start damaged anyway, so you really arent losing any supply "converting" these factories. As for expansion, I dont do much. Armaments a little (16 to 32 is all). Shipyards et al, never. Heavy Industry never. I convert most (not all) of my Kawasaki factories to Nakajimas and all of the oddballs also (Nissan, Isusu, ect). But then I only build a handful of Tonys (around 200 or so).

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RE: Japanese Questions - 6/14/2007 8:45:49 AM

Kadrin

Posts: 183
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From: Orange, California
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[edit] Nevermind found out.

< Message edited by Kadrin -- 6/14/2007 8:47:46 AM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Japanese Questions - 6/20/2007 3:39:33 AM

KPAX

Posts: 735
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
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you also may want to take a peek at this website for a lot of good answers.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1274014

Also, take a peek at Spooky's site. I am pretty sure there is some flow charts there.

http://mathubert.free.fr/

Jope that helps

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Thanks !!

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