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Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 6:12:06 PM

MarkShot

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While attempting to research the history of this game, CAW, since I was unaware of it until very recently, I came across this Web site.

http://www.ssgus.com/ccaw.html

Apparently, this is the complete compilation of previous offerings. I was somewhat interested since I am playing a lot of older titles these days via DOSBOX: AOD, SH1, RTD, 1830, BRD, ...

So, does this look like legitimate software? Are the earlier versions of this game running under DosBox worth playing when compared to the latest rendition of the game?

Thanks.

---

Update NWS has for it for even less:

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/cocaatwar.html

< Message edited by MarkShot -- 7/9/2007 3:41:11 AM >

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 6:23:29 PM

blastpop

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

While attempting to research the history of this game, CAW, since I was unaware of it until very recently, I came across this Web site.

http://www.ssgus.com/ccaw.html

Apparently, this is the complete compilation of previous offerings. I was somewhat interested since I am playing a lot of older titles these days via DOSBOX: AOD, SH1, RTD, 1830, BRD, ...

So, does this look like legitimate software? Are the earlier versions of this game running under DosBox worth playing when compared to the latest rendition of the game?

Thanks.

They were once the distributor in the US for SSG, I believe. They must have what remains of the earlier version.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 6:40:44 PM

Staggerwing

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There is also a link to download a free version of the Ardennes offensive
under the 'downloads' section. I think this went up on the site when Korsun Pocket
was released (as an appetite whetter, maybe?). I was never able to get TAO to run on
my system. It would always freeze just as the scenario started.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 7:11:02 PM

Hertston

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Staggerwing

There is also a link to download a free version of the Ardennes offensive
under the 'downloads' section. I think this went up on the site when Korsun Pocket
was released (as an appetite whetter, maybe?). I was never able to get TAO to run on
my system. It would always freeze just as the scenario started.

It wasn't/isn't XP compatible.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 8:12:42 PM

mjk428

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I purchased CCaW and the Total War Collection (Mac) from them a few years back. They were prompt and there were no problems with the order. They even came with full sized (laser printed and hand bound) manuals.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 9:26:38 PM

Staggerwing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staggerwing

There is also a link to download a free version of the Ardennes offensive
under the 'downloads' section. I think this went up on the site when Korsun Pocket
was released (as an appetite whetter, maybe?). I was never able to get TAO to run on
my system. It would always freeze just as the scenario started.

It wasn't/isn't XP compatible.

Well, it wasn't win98 compatible either as that's what I had then even though the
site claimed otherwise. It also doesn't run under Dosbox. It is windows only.

< Message edited by Staggerwing -- 6/17/2007 9:28:39 PM >

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 10:54:40 PM

MarkShot

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(1) Is this anthology worth getting or am I going to find it very deficient now that I have seen the reincarnated CAW?

(2) Is it worth getting just for the more detailed manuals than come with the reincarnated CAW?

Thanks.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 11:12:09 PM

TheHellPatrol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

(1) Is this anthology worth getting or am I going to find it very deficient now that I have seen the reincarnated CAW?

(2) Is it worth getting just for the more detailed manuals than come with the reincarnated CAW?

Thanks.

1) Judging from the amount of time it takes for new scenarios eg:Battlefront and the sheer quality of CAW and it's forefather i would say grab it!
2) The new manual is fine but more couldn't hurt, although the game is very easy to pick up thanks to an INCREDIBLE interface.
If i had the patience/time i would probably jump on it as i have never played the original CAW but i have more than i could play in a lifetime as is

.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 11:16:49 PM

Brigz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

(1) Is this anthology worth getting or am I going to find it very deficient now that I have seen the reincarnated CAW?

(2) Is it worth getting just for the more detailed manuals than come with the reincarnated CAW?

Thanks.

I owned all the previous CAW releases including the Complete Carriers at War. I just purchased the Matrix update of CAW and it is my opinion that the newest version is much better than the older version. They are almost the identical game but the new graphics and format make the game much easier to play and the new attack animations are much much better. True, the Complete Carriers at War has a lot more material to offer but, if I were you, I'd go ahead and buy the new Matrix version of CAW. The only thing the older version seems to have that the newer versions doesn't is the manual. It appears that the older manual has much more info about the game, and if I remember correctly, it goes into much greater detail about using the editor.

Now if I can only remember where I stored my old game and get my hands on that manual. Hope I didn't toss it along with a bunch of older DOS games when I last moved.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/17/2007 11:51:55 PM

MarkShot

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Well, I have the Matrix version.

Aside from better animation, what UI improvements are in the Matrix version (improved format)?

Thanks.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 12:11:58 AM

MarkShot

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They have a full money back guarantee.

So, I ordered it. I am a sucker for classic old games. Despite having a spiffy new PC, some of the best fun I have had over the past year has been with older games. In fact, at this very moment, I am playing Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon Deluxe (DOS, 1994). I kid you not.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 12:54:51 AM

Brigz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Well, I have the Matrix version.

Aside from better animation, what UI improvements are in the Matrix version (improved format)?

Thanks.

The UI is similar in practice but takes advantage of some ten years of programing and cpu progress since the original was done. There are mouse intuitive graphics popups and on screen help that makes play more fluid. It's still the basic game just more streamlined and modernized.

I guess I like the newer version because they took a very good original game design and brought it into the 21st century without losing any of the appeal of the original. CAW, both new and old, is probably one of the most elegant computer games ever designed. And the card/thread based AI routine was a decade ahead of it's time. I'm not saying it's the best computer game ever but it's certainly right up there as one of the best designs ever.

Hope I can find my old CCAW manual and my collection of Run5 magazines. Together those are powerful references for scenario design. I'm hoping Matrix and SSG will bring this new version up to the same level of content as the old CCAW version. If I can't find my old game I might have to buy that version of CCAW still being offered. It's certainly worth the asking price if it contains the original manual and all the scenarios.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 1:39:02 AM

MarkShot

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You know there was Sid Meier's Rail Roads recently released which got me interested in the whole genre. I bought RT3 being as it was described as being superior the one before it or the one after it. Yet, still RTD has the best game play of any such RR game. When projects weren't distracted with DirectX and GPUs and the game out of the box either played well or sold poor, made it magically possible for teams to produce relatively stable and fun games directly off the store shelf. Those were the days!

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 1:42:37 AM

GoodGuy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I am playing Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon Deluxe (DOS, 1994). I kid you not.

Haha i played that for months and I loved it .... but I played it on the Commodore Amiga, in 1991 .... Gfx on Amigas used to be less pixelated than PC versions back then, especially Games like Kings Quest or "North & South"

, at a time when Hercules cards used to be the standard on a PC, hehe. Not sure about Railroad tho. Both Amiga and PC screenshots of R-tycoon look ****ty these days, maybe due to using bigger screens nowadays, and due to limited amount of colors. Amigas could display a 16 color palette out of 4096 colors, one reason for it being able to come up with less pixelated images, if compared to PCs.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 6/18/2007 1:56:05 AM >

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 1:48:12 AM

GoodGuy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Those were the days!

Well, there were games (PC + Amiga/Atari) that had evil bugs, sometimes making it impossible to complete a game.
Civilization, the pioneer game on the Amiga, had a bug at the end which triggered a kernel error, hehe. "It came from the desert" from Cinemaware had a serious bug midgame, which could make it impossible to play through the game.

Given, these instances were rare, games used to be rocksolid, you are right, as there were no patches/no download opportunities in late 80s/early 90s. Having a bug-free product was THE factor deciding about life and death of a software company, creating a fun game wasn't enough. Although it might sound cruel, I wish companies would feel this pressure again, as major companies deliver more and more sloppy programming these days, especially companies like EA and UBISoft.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 6/18/2007 2:02:04 AM >

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 2:59:38 AM

BoredStiff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

While attempting to research the history of this game, CAW, since I was unaware of it until very recently, I came across this Web site.

http://www.ssgus.com/ccaw.html

Apparently, this is the complete compilation of previous offerings. I was somewhat interested since I am playing a lot of older titles these days via DOSBOX: AOD, SH1, RTD, 1830, BRD, ...

So, does this look like legitimate software? Are the earlier versions of this game running under DosBox worth playing when compared to the latest rendition of the game?

Thanks.

I don't have the new release, but I do have the old Complete Carriers At War. The biggest drawback to CCAW is that you can ONLY play it versus the AI - no hotseat, no PBEM, no TCPIP. I have it installed and although the setup screen does allow human players for both sides, I don't see how it could be hotseated, since both player's actions take place simultaneously.
The advantage of the old CCAW is the large number of scenarios, including the European theatre. It'll remain to be seen whether the new version will get any of those.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 3:04:16 AM

MarkShot

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Great User ID! :)

Well, my head to head/PBEM days are long behind me. So, as long as I can have a good experience playing solitary, then it is fine with me.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 6:08:53 AM

BoredStiff

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quote:

Well, my head to head/PBEM days are long behind me. So, as long as I can have a good experience playing solitary, then it is fine with me.

Strange, usually it's the other way around with people.

I only played one scenario, several months ago, so I can't really judge the AI. I was able to play without reading the manual though and I won big, which says two things: You don't need to read the manual to get started and the AI might be iffy.

(At the time these games were popular, the mid-80's through the mid-90's, I was playing Gary Grigsby's carrier games. I always thought they were much more detailed than the SSG products, which seemed to just want to play by themselves without too much player input. I've heard other people say that too. FWIW)

A couple more things: If you're running XP you should not need X-Box to run CCAW. With a handful of exceptions, for most people, myself included, the game installs and runs flawlessly under XP.
No copy protection - once it's installed, you can put the disc away. This is cool for putting it on a laptop.
The graphics are very nice, more than just functional. I'd put up some screens, but my screen capture function does not seem to work with the game.
The sounds are, well, functional.

Still, if it were me and I had to choose, I'd probably get the newer version. But if you're hard up to play old games, this is definitely one of the better ones to have. IMO.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 6:21:38 AM

BoredStiff

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While I have your attention and at the risk of changing the topic, I have to say that I was never able to get a handle on your company's old game Fire Brigade. It looked marvelous, both the manual and the OOB charts, but I could never figure out cause-and-effect in that game. The map seemed rather small and the way the units were made to move seemed...odd. The lack of hexagons was certainly different. I tried many times and spent many hours trying to figure out what was going on and what I had to do to win, all to no avail.

I had the Amiga version and although I long since got rid of the computer, I still have all my Amiga games, including Fire Brigade. It always irritated me that I couldn't figure out this game, especially since it looked so good and most people thought it was great.

Anyway, back to CCAW.

< Message edited by BoredStiff -- 6/18/2007 6:48:27 AM >

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 7:36:05 AM

walterlzw

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It is XP compatible. I am playing it on XP right now.
I am here looking at feedbacks to help me decide if I should buy Matrix's new rendition.
I have been burn once, by Close Combat III. I own the old game, the new one is just a face lift.
So far I am undecided over Carriers at War.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 3:34:54 PM

Gregor_SSG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: walterlzw

It is XP compatible. I am playing it on XP right now.
I am here looking at feedbacks to help me decide if I should buy Matrix's new rendition.
I have been burn once, by Close Combat III. I own the old game, the new one is just a face lift.
So far I am undecided over Carriers at War.

I would say that the new CAW is more than a just a facelift, its a complete rejuvenation, with a much better interface and graphics than the old game, plus multiplayer which the old game simply can't do. You really will like the new interface, and won't ever want to go back if you take the plunge.

Gregor

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/18/2007 6:01:05 PM

MarkShot

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First. to clarify, I DO own CAW (Matrix version). However, I still decided to invest in getting a copy of the CAW anthology. From what I can see, although CAW (Matrix version) has substantial improvements and a bright future, there is much value in the anthology for the $30+ USD it cost me. So, it wasn't one or the other. It's both. My intention is definitely not to suggest avoiding buying CAW (Matrix version). It seems to me to be a fine game that is going to be a real gem after a patch or two has been applied.

Second, as I understand it, CAW (Matrix version) is a completely new code base which closely follows the design of the the older versions of CAW. This would indeed make it in spirit very different from CC3/COI, since COI is an updated/enhanced version of the CC3 code base. CAW is a remake of a classic and COI is a rennovation of a classic. Of course in the end, the really important issue is not how a game was created, but whether it is fun and worth your money.

Third, I am a beta tester (not an owner) of Panther Games. Fire Brigade was before my time. I joined with RDOA in 2001. You might try to address your questions to Arjuna (Dave O'Connor) in one of the PG forums.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/19/2007 3:36:15 AM

MarkShot

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This is one of the best PC strategy games ever made. 1830 a game of business. The goal is the accumulation of personal wealth by running RRs and trading in the stock market. No two games are alike (despite there being only a single random element in the whole game). An amazing amount of strategy plays. An entire game can be played in an hour. Port of a classic board game to the PC. The original and PC game was in a major part designed by the legendary Bruce Shelly just a little less known than Sid Meier. I love this game.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/19/2007 4:41:41 AM

BoredStiff

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I have 1830, but have never as much as installed it. Are you playing it with X-box or does it work under XP?
I also have X-box and looked at it recently but can't make heads or tails out of it. I used to have an Amiga , so I know nothing about basic DOS commands, never had to learn them.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/19/2007 4:51:32 AM

MarkShot

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Do you mean DOSBOX? If so, yes I am play quite a few games under DOSBOX.

You only need to know just two DOS commands to work with DOSBOX.

(1) Run a program. (type the program name at the prompt)

(2) Change directories. "CD"

Everything else can be done with notepad to edit the CONF file. I you need to make any directories or move files, then you can just do it via Windows.

For example, here are the standard DOS commands that appear at the end of all my CONF (configuration files) so that I can just double click on a shortcut and launch the DOS game in window.

quote:

[autoexec]
# Lines in this section will be run at startup.

mount c e:\games\1830
c:
#turned off midi music and just kept sound effects
#sound
1830
exit

# comments
mount (is actually a DOSBOX command saying let the C: drive resolve to this path)
"1830" the game EXE
"exit" close the DOSBOX window

So, when I double click on the shortcut 1830 runs and when I exit the game, then DOSBOX shuts down. Totally, transparent.

---

Also, there are front ends for DOSBOX that free you from having to manually edit the CONF file. As you can see, I prefer the manual approach myself.

< Message edited by MarkShot -- 6/19/2007 4:52:43 AM >

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/19/2007 5:34:47 AM

BoredStiff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Do you mean DOSBOX? If so, yes I am play quite a few games under DOSBOX.

Yes, I meant DOSBox in all my previous replies.
OK, thanks for that info.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/20/2007 8:34:52 PM

MarkShot

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CCAW arrived today. I'll be installing it later. First glance at the manual ... about 200+ pages (hardcopy reprint), but it seems 2/3s is dedicated to scenario design. When I read, I'll let you know if it adds anything substantially more beyond the existing CAW-Matrix manual.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/20/2007 9:40:53 PM

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Hi Markshot
As I am awaiting my copy here in Wales I await your verdict with interest.

Richard

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/20/2007 9:53:53 PM

MarkShot

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Installation notes:

The installation procedure for XP direct is messy and does not work from DOSBOX. The XP produces unreadable garbage characters, but does create C:\CCAW okay.

On the other hand, the CCAW directory on CD is, in fact, the entire game. So, simply use a file manager and copy the CCAW directory to wherever you want it. The first time you run it, it will create a CCAW.INI file with sound settings. It seems to run fine under either XP (NTDVM) or DOSBOX.

XP: It will only run full screen and has sound, but no music.

DOSBOX: You can run windowed with sound and music. I'll probably go with DOSBOX.

That's it for the moment.

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RE: Pirate or legal earlier versions? - 6/20/2007 9:54:46 PM

MarkShot

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Other directories on the CD are for demos of other games; not CCAW.

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