Terrain Issues for Update

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> John Tiller's Campaign Series >> Terrain Issues for Update

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Terrain Issues for Update - 6/18/2007 3:12:57 AM

Ladmo

Posts: 132
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Utopia Ltd.
Status: offline

I thought I would run a few terrain features up the flagpole and see if any one on the team salutes...Here they are...

1) I think the hanai (tall grass) in Rising Sun Tropical maps would be useful in all terrain zones, if it could be added.

2) Desert Terrain: trees beyond palm should be enabled and would add greatly to recreating areas like Turkey, parts of Greece, and Sicily.

3) Why the devil did the original designers conclude there are no industrial buildings in the Middle East. I suppose Rommel did not encounter many factories in the Western Desert, but had he made it into Cairo I think it is just possible he would have done.

4) winter in the desert. I grew up in the high desert of New Mexico and can assure you snow, incredbile amounts of snow are possible. This may not be relevent to Monty and Erwin's adventures, but he have added Iran, and one can postulate Turkey, and those places see, in parts, snow.

I do not propose dense jungle in Berlin, except maybe in the Reich Chancellery and that would be jungle of the political variety...

Finally,....

This is, I suppose, more a mod thing, but I like the way TOAW III allows the user to place alternative graphics in a folder wiith a scenario of the same name. I suspect that would be something for the far future. My impression is we are just learning our way around the code at present. Keep the idea in mind, at any rate. I do think the above mention items are very 'do-able' right now.

I have not mentioned East Front terrain, which I understand is a real bugger. Maybe we need to consider transferring EFII to the WF engine? Maybe...perhaps...well, maybe not.

Post #: 1

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/18/2007 4:30:29 AM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ladmo

I thought I would run a few terrain features up the flagpole and see if any one on the team salutes...Here they are...

1) I think the hanai (tall grass) in Rising Sun Tropical maps would be useful in all terrain zones, if it could be added.

2) Desert Terrain: trees beyond palm should be enabled and would add greatly to recreating areas like Turkey, parts of Greece, and Sicily.

3) Why the devil did the original designers conclude there are no industrial buildings in the Middle East. I suppose Rommel did not encounter many factories in the Western Desert, but had he made it into Cairo I think it is just possible he would have done.

4) winter in the desert. I grew up in the high desert of New Mexico and can assure you snow, incredbile amounts of snow are possible. This may not be relevent to Monty and Erwin's adventures, but he have added Iran, and one can postulate Turkey, and those places see, in parts, snow.

I do not propose dense jungle in Berlin, except maybe in the Reich Chancellery and that would be jungle of the political variety...

Finally,....

This is, I suppose, more a mod thing, but I like the way TOAW III allows the user to place alternative graphics in a folder wiith a scenario of the same name. I suspect that would be something for the far future. My impression is we are just learning our way around the code at present. Keep the idea in mind, at any rate. I do think the above mention items are very 'do-able' right now.

I have not mentioned East Front terrain, which I understand is a real bugger. Maybe we need to consider transferring EFII to the WF engine? Maybe...perhaps...well, maybe not.

All good ideas, but probably won't be worked on anytime soon. They are noted now though! Thanks Ladmo.

Jason Petho

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(in reply to Ladmo)

Post #: 2

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 12:16:58 AM

Whytfyjrd

Posts: 23
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

Ladmo
4) winter in the desert. I grew up in the high desert of New Mexico and can assure you snow, incredbile amounts of snow are possible. This may not be relevent to Monty and Erwin's adventures, but he have added Iran, and one can postulate Turkey, and those places see, in parts, snow.

Moreover, Axis and Allied forces in Algeria/Tunisia both suffered through some miserably cold weather in the Winter of '42-'43 --- mostly rain, but in the Atlas Mountains lots of snow ... though no figting IIRC.

(in reply to Ladmo)

Post #: 3

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 2:28:05 AM

Larac

Posts: 250
Joined: 9/5/2004
Status: offline

Does the game in anyway take into accout the harsh cold, or high heat, of areas?

Lee

(in reply to Whytfyjrd)

Post #: 4

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 2:37:57 AM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larac

Does the game in anyway take into accout the harsh cold, or high heat, of areas?

Lee

Unfortunately, no. Although a scenario designer could reduce the number of SP's in a platoon to make up for climatic conditions. A German Rifle Platoon in December, 41 could start at 3 or 4 SP's to account for the frigid conditions, plus reducing morale.

Jason Petho

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(in reply to Larac)

Post #: 5

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 3:20:53 AM

1925frank

Posts: 1039
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline

I would vote for reducing morale. For example, when France and Great Britain sent troops to Norway in 1940, they were totally unprepared for winter warfare, and I'm thinking they would function less well, which is a function or morale. On the other hand, the Germans during the first Russian winter fought well despite the cold. Attrition because of frostbite was the primary concern, so frostbite and mechanical malfunctions would reduce the number of operatives.

Regarding terrain, muddy terrain slows down movement but does not stop it in Campaign Series. During the rasputitsa (spelling?), the mud virtually brought all vehicular movement to a standstill on the Eastern Front. Combat Mission seemed to reflect that fairly well. Campaign Series less so. The mud option in Campaign Series might better reflect conditions in West Front than in East Front II. I'm not sure you'd want modifications. You could always use swamp, which I believe is impassible to vehicles.

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 6

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 4:05:31 AM

1925frank

Posts: 1039
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline

There's a scenario in West Front from the May-June 1940 Campaign where the introduction states the French catch the German panzers refueling. I didn't know how you'd reflect that within the parameters of the game, but, after studying the scenario a little, I thought the designer did it rather effectively. The German panzers were started disrupted, low on supply, and fixed, and their morale was reduced about three levels. This meant it would take the German panzers several turns before they lost their disrupted status. The battalion HQs were also located in a vulnerable spot, which required moving them or losing them. This further delayed the time it took to bring the units into supply.

(in reply to 1925frank)

Post #: 7

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 5:12:43 PM

1925frank

Posts: 1039
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline

Regarding terrain, high heat, and intense cold, maybe open hexes could have significant morale penalties under those conditions. I think shallow water and beach hexes already have small morale penalties. Conversely, village, suburb, and city hexes could have morale bonuses, which I think would translate into units taking losses rather than retreating out of the hex.

Regarding Russian mud, perhaps there could be a percentage rate for successfully moving one hex. It'd kind of be like the starshells, where you can try, but you might not succeed. My understanding is that Russian mud was a whole different critter than any mud the Germans had encountered elsewhere.

(in reply to 1925frank)

Post #: 8

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 5:36:40 PM

1925frank

Posts: 1039
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline

Regarding Russian mud, perhaps infantry could become fatigued after movement.

(in reply to 1925frank)

Post #: 9

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 6:16:45 PM

Ladmo

Posts: 132
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Utopia Ltd.
Status: offline

I thought mud was factored in through movement. Too difficult, too often and you got fatigue. I imagine the mud terrain is not there just because its so gosh-darned attractive.

(in reply to 1925frank)

Post #: 10

RE: Terrain Issues for Update - 6/19/2007 6:22:06 PM

1925frank

Posts: 1039
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline

I could be wrong, but I thought mud simply reduced how far you could move. It never stopped movement, and it never fatigued units. I thought the only way to fatigue a unit was to have it use double-time.

(in reply to Ladmo)

Post #: 11