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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Trying campaign against the AI

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Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 3:46:53 AM

PaulWRoberts

Posts: 897
Joined: 4/22/2001
Status: offline

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice and other people's experience in playing against the AI. I've had WitP for a couple of years but have only dabbled in the shorter scenarios. Now I'd like to try a full campaign, but I'm still going to be playing the AI because (to be honest) I'm not sure I'll like all of the housekeeping involved. I don't want to quit and leave a human opponent hanging.

My plan is to try a campaign as the Allies (Andrew Brown's map, no other mods). I want to focus only on the American and Commonwealth effort, however, leaving out China and Russia. So I'll put the West, NW, and NE zones of the map under computer control.

How will this work out? Can I play this way with no worries? Does the computer screw things up, run out of supplies, or (worse) suck all the supplies away from my human-controlled zones? Do I need to babysit anything in the computer-controlled zones? What else should I know before embarking on this campaign?

If it all works out and I find that I can keep the game going at a reasonable pace, I'll probably stop playing against the AI and try a human opponent. In the meantime, though, I'm going to play as if I intend to finish the campaign.

Thanks for any advice!

Post #: 1

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 4:48:10 AM

eloso

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/28/2006
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area, USA
Status: offline

I wouldn't put any zone under AI control. It might steal something from you that you are actually controlling if it enters that zone.

The Japanese AI is pre-scripted to attack the SRA. You won't have to worry about China or Russia at all. They won't even bother you there except for Hong Kong. You can hold it against the AI for a long time. A human will take it in a matter of days...

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 2

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 5:31:30 AM

rogueusmc

Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline

Puting the Morthern area on computer control has led to many problems...the others do too but the North Pacific area seems to be the worst.

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 3

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 6:06:36 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

How will this work out?

Badly.

quote:

Can I play this way with no worries?

No.

quote:

Does the computer screw things up, run out of supplies, or (worse) suck all the supplies away from my human-controlled zones? Do I need to babysit anything in the computer-controlled zones?

All of the above plus a lot more you wouldn't believe.

quote:

What else should I know before embarking on this campaign?

That the game is designed to require you to handle all those piddling little housekeeping details yourself while preventing you from having meaningful control over your forces in combat.

<-- muttering old geezer mode

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 4

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 6:35:18 AM

Gem35

Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline

dtravel is one of our more optomistic forum members.
He always has something nice to say about the game.
I'd have to agree though that you will want to have full and complete control over your armed forces.
Take things slow in the beginning and take your time, playing the Allies against the AI is how I have been playing and it really is fun once you get over that over-whelming feeling and devlop your plans and strategy.
Good luck and have fun.

_____________________________

It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?

Banner By Feurer Krieg

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 5

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 7:16:18 AM

FAdmiral

Posts: 378
Joined: 12/20/2002
From: Atlanta,GA, USA
Status: offline

I have been playing the senario 15 campaign as the Allies day by day (no mods)
I am now only at Aug. 1, 1942 but have a very good game going. The Russians
are not active in 15 and I only have China under AI control (they are not much to
play with anyway). Most Important Thing Here is to PICK WHERE YOU WILL FIGHT.
I figured that OIL & Resources were probably the most important things to Japan
so I picked those places to make my stands. Use your submarines to blockade
the Japanese bases with O&R. DO NOT go up against the Jap Zeros before April 1942.
You will need to sacrifice some ships to save others. Your carriers are very
important so don't rush them into battle until you get the Avengers. I have all 6 of my
US carriers intact and all the Brit ones are OK too. This is a detailed strategic game and
you must think in large terms and perform many tasks at the same time. During your turn, get into a routine system of organizing all your assets while thinking ahead of what
you are trying to accomplish. It's a lot like a Grandmaster playing chess, thinking of all
the options but having to make changes when the opponent does the unexpected. I
try to read what the AI is up too and have done a fairly good job of it. In fact, I expected
the AI to be much more agressive than it has been. LBA is your very good friend.
Between my subs and LBA, I have about 400 Japanese ships sunk. Keep your fuel,
supplies, troops and aircraft moving to YOUR front at all times. GOOD LUCK !!

JIM

PS-Edit "It doesn't make any sense, Admiral. Were we better than the Japanese or just luckier?"

In my opinion, when a Japanese Admiral turns to Yamamoto just before the Midway
campaign and says "We shall achieve a great victory providing the Americans do just
as you predict", I would say SMARTER than the Japanese !!

< Message edited by FAdmiral -- 6/21/2007 7:22:00 AM >

(in reply to Gem35)

Post #: 6

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 8:07:28 AM

rockmedic109

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline

I have been playing against the AI since this game came out.� Yes, you can have a LOT of fun playing the game against the AI.�

A few House Rules will help make the game even more enjoyable.� Modifying the DB and Scenario will help as well.

I play CHS.� If you play stock against the Japanese, you will want to increase IJA/IJN pilot�replacement by 150-200%.� Otherwise they will provide no challenge to air attacks after about august of 1942.� Playing with allied sub doctrine on will also provide a better game imho.� If you play the NikMod or Experimental CHS, you will not need to alter pilot replacements.

I make all forces in Hong Kong/DEI/Malaya/Philippines set to No Reinforcements, unless an AK full of supplies comes in.� I dropped Hong Kong fortifications to 2 and it is not enough.� Dropping Hong Kong forts to 0 in CHS will result in its fall on Dec 8.� If I remember correctly, in stock, you will need to increase Hong Kong forts to 50 to get it to fall near historical time.

As stated above, DO NOT PUT ANYTHING UNDER COMPUTER CONTROL!� It will steal ships, supplies, oil, victory and any fun you might want to have.� It is easy to do yourself after a little prep on your first turn.� You will not need to do anything in China.� Japanese AI doesn't do anything till after May of 1943 {I have gotten that far in stock}.

If your computer is fast and you are playing the surprise on, just run the first turn over and over till you get� a good {meaning two BB sunk} Pearl Harbor strike.� You can make this easier by editing Arizona and Oklahoma to 99% Flot damage and editing Pennsylvania, Maryland, Tennesee to arrive on Dec 8 with some damage.� This way they will not take any torp hits which they couldn't IRL and the AI can concentrate their strike on other ships.� Hopefully you can get two BBs sunk and two with 90+% Sys damage.

Follow a few simple house rules and you will have a great game and a lot of fun.

(in reply to FAdmiral)

Post #: 7

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 9:05:34 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

dtravel is one of our more optomistic forum members.
He always has something nice to say about the game.
I'd have to agree though that you will want to have full and complete control over your armed forces.

You misspelled "cranky old bastard".
I just tell it like it is.
And yet, somehow, people keep ending up agreeing with me.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to Gem35)

Post #: 8

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 12:44:40 PM

AmiralLaurent

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline

As the other said don't put anything under computer control. The AI will do nothing in China (except sending small air raids with obsolete AC) and Siberia, and little or nothing in Aleutains, so you can just ignore these parts of the map except for the day where you will decide to drop an eye on them.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 9

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 2:00:16 PM

captskillet

Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline

The ONLY area I would leave under comp control would be the Russians (NW area I think) DO NOT leave N PAC under AI.....for one I have never seen the AI try anything in the Aleutians, try and save Wake if you can and then start the slow biuld up in SW PAc area, you can hold the line in Burma esp if you can get a few units out of Maylay Pen. and sending a few reinf from India..............lastly do not use auto convoys except for keeping Pearl and maybe Alaska supplied.

_____________________________

"Git thar fust with the most men" - Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 10

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 2:08:29 PM

PaulWRoberts

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Thanks for the advice, everyone!

What's wrong with auto convoys? I've heard people advise against it, but I don't know the details.

(in reply to captskillet)

Post #: 11

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 2:21:14 PM

captskillet

Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
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The comp has a bad habit of getting to close to Japanese LB air...............you route a convoy from say SF to Noumea and it will invariably send it too close to Gilberts (Tarawa)! I usually send it to Pearl with the dont retire/dont unload on....refuel in Pearl then route them towards Suva - Canton Is. area and once there to Noumea or OZ.

_____________________________

"Git thar fust with the most men" - Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 12

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 2:25:57 PM

supermarina

Posts: 49
Joined: 4/29/2006
From: Naples, Italy
Status: offline

Hi friends,
I'm playing the Allies from Coral Sea battle to the end of the war.
I'm now in feb 1943. I lost only the Yorktown and had some minor damage on other 3 carries but I sunk 3 japanese CV and 3 CVL damagin the rest of the KB.

the major part of the job was done by air based aircrafts, subs and the decisive (later) support of the carrier wings. It happened because the IJN splitted her carriers and sent them piecemeal against my beacheads at Guadalcanal
very very exciting and intensive game.

It was an experience.

the only spot was the meaningless attempt of the IJN to dock 4 BB (along with the Yamato!) and a lot of other CA (at least 8) and Aux ships (AS, AR, AE...!!) to the Buna (!!) or other New Guinea's ports...

needless to say that they were transformed in blazing coffins in a couple of attacks from the Port Moresby aircrafts.....

Now, like Paul Roberts, I'm thinking to abandon the scenario and starting a complete campaign against the AI on the side of the Allies. (This happened in part because of this illogical behaviour of the AI ruined part of the fun.)

But, is there a method to prevent

the AI to send her ships to certain death in enemy (human) air-controlled ports or sea spaces without a clear mission? or to help her in not committing such suicide decisions?

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)

Post #: 13

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 2:36:55 PM

timtom

Posts: 2358
Joined: 1/29/2003
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline

PBEM si the way to go...I know it's more of a hazzle etc, but it's 100 X more enjoyable - a much better use of ones time. IMO.

That said, some AI players have taken on Japan for the first 6-12 months, then switched to the Allies for the long march home. Best of both worlds and makes for a more challeging game.

_____________________________

Where's the Any key?

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 14

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 2:37:57 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

How will this work out?

Badly.

quote:

Can I play this way with no worries?

No.

quote:

Does the computer screw things up, run out of supplies, or (worse) suck all the supplies away from my human-controlled zones? Do I need to babysit anything in the computer-controlled zones?

All of the above plus a lot more you wouldn't believe.

quote:

What else should I know before embarking on this campaign?

That the game is designed to require you to handle all those piddling little housekeeping details yourself while preventing you from having meaningful control over your forces in combat. <-- muttering old geezer mode

ROTFLMFAO!!!!

It's always nice when they allow dtravel out of the home on weekends....
I'm sure his original post was written in crayon.

_____________________________

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 15

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 2:46:38 PM

DD696

Posts: 964
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline

What you describe about the AI behavior in the scenario is what I have found to be standard operating procedure in the campaign game. The only way I have found to handle this is to 1) play head to head with yourself now and again to send those task forces elsewhere....but expect them to come back, or 2) ignore them....do not put your air groups on naval attack. You just have to be aware that the AI is going to do many stupid things and that you just have to make do the best you can with what has been provided to us. Try not to sink the Japanese fleet too early in the game around Buna so that you are able to spar with it later on. Don't expect any improvements to the AI. Remember that this forum is primarily dedicated to the PBEM crowd.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to supermarina)

Post #: 16

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 4:38:09 PM

HansenII

Posts: 18
Joined: 1/10/2007
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

Hi!
I would not place anything under AI's control, if not for it's apparent stupidity, then for the fact that you'll should know every little bit of the available resources and where they do hide away...! In my opinion, its much more fun this way. It takes time (I am playing for 4 months now, never much more than 1 - 2 game turns at once).

If you'll take some advice:
1.Do concentrate your forces in Burma, Singapur and the Philipines as much as you can and before they get crushed unit by unit and try to keep the Jap Forces away from doing mieschief all over (You'll loose Singapur, Hong Kong and the main Islands of the Philipines anyway, just try too buy time for evac and reinforcements).
2. The longer they are to depend on overstretched supply lines (mainly AK's, AO's, TK's and AP's which you'll attack with bombers, fighters, subs and surface ships whereever possible), the higher is the chance to keep the Jap Juggernaut at bay early on.
3. The AI is dumb enough not to cash in on youre striping less important bases in Cent Pac or elsewhere, so move them to the important places.
4. At the same time try to deny the AI to capture the main supply points (Palembang, Tarakan, a Island SE of Palembang (ressource!), Bali, Miri ) by ferrying out as many ressources and oil as you can. If you can hold them, fine.
5. Use youre only decent fighter in the beginning, the P-40, in huge numbers (i.e. at Singapur and Rangoon) to wear down the Jap fighter units. Use them from an altitude
6. Try to preserve as many forces be evacuating them as soon as possible. Do not let them surrender at Singapur if you can help it, use every fast warship as a fast transport if needs be.
7.Since you have only very limited PP's available, use them wisely, meanuing for ABDA and Units in the Philipines (base forces & smaller combat units and plane units will be all you'll be able to afford).
8. Don't panic, from time to time even the AI will give you a thrashing...

In my current game I got lucky and killed 4 Jap fleet carriers while loosing only two of my own north of Borneo. In due course I have been able to hold the southern part of Java including Palembang (Oil Oil Oil), the southern part of Borneo, all of Sumatra and I have stopped the Japanese army cold south of Rangoon. I'am now in May 1942 and start recapturing Borneo bit by bit. I've killed 680 ships and 5600 planes so far with 180 rep. 3000 losses on my own. There are nearly no Zeros left, I'll mainly get Nates now, easy meat.

So, enjoy it.

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 17

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 4:38:39 PM

PaulWRoberts

Posts: 897
Joined: 4/22/2001
Status: offline

OK, I'm getting ready to go: I'll be playing Allies in the 42A Campaign (starting May 1942) for Andrew Brown's standard map. If all goes well for a while, I'll probably solicit an opponent for a "real" game later.

Naval Operations: Since I've played the Coral Sea and South Pac scenarios before, I know what to expect there. But what other action areas should I plan for this year? For instance, I've never dealt with the British presence at all. What should they be doing in 1942?

Training Pilots: Outside of the action areas, what should I be doing with air units? Do I set most of them to training? Do I just let them sit?

Automated Convoys: I've decided to make limited use of the automated convoy system. Basically, I'll only include bases east of hexline x=100. (I'm assuming these will be safe enough unless the IJN moves on Hawaii.) Is there any reason not to dump *all* of the AKs at San Francisco into the automatic system? Will these be enough? Too many?

Manual Convoys: When I set up supply convoys manually, how do I know how much is enough (or too much)? For instance, my first convoy will run from Pearl Harbor to Midway, which states that it requires about 833 supply. What would be an appropriate size and composition for a supply convoy there? Would two AKs of 20000 capacity along with a couple of destroyers be enough? What's the relationship between that 833 and that 20000 (or 40000)?

(Please tell me I don't have to work out the math of use, capacity, and loading/travel time for every supply convoy!)

Thanks again for all the advice.

< Message edited by Paul Roberts -- 6/21/2007 4:52:23 PM >

(in reply to DD696)

Post #: 18

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/21/2007 4:51:08 PM

Icedawg

Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO
They won't even bother you there except for Hong Kong. You can hold it against the AI for a long time. A human will take it in a matter of days...

Either I have to disagree with you or admit that I must be a horrible player.

In most of my games as the allies against the Japanese AI, I lose Hong Kong in less than a week the vast majority of the time. Yet as the Japanese against the Allied AI, I have only accomplished this once and most of the time it is not until mid-to-late January that I finally take it.

(in reply to eloso)

Post #: 19

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 12:33:52 AM

eloso

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/28/2006
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

quote:

ORIGINAL: OSO
They won't even bother you there except for Hong Kong. You can hold it against the AI for a long time. A human will take it in a matter of days...

Either I have to disagree with you or admit that I must be a horrible player.

In most of my games as the allies against the Japanese AI, I lose Hong Kong in less than a week the vast majority of the time. Yet as the Japanese against the Allied AI, I have only accomplished this once and most of the time it is not until mid-to-late January that I finally take it.

I can't speak for stock as I jumped right into CHS. The AI forces might be different in those locations. To take Hong Kong as the Axis you need to send almost everything in there from Canton. Alternate Shock Attacks with Bombardment attacks. At the same time hit it from the air with your LBA in the area. In CHS there is a coastal gun unit there and if you hit the port continuously (the AI will leave it's ships there once they are damaged)while alternating airfield/ground attacks you should wear it down in 7-10 days.

When I played it as the allies the axis didn't bring enough forces to the party. I lost Singapore before Hong Kong. You can use the chinese bombers to re-supply Hong Kong from the air as well.

(in reply to Icedawg)

Post #: 20

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 2:05:43 AM

Rainer

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

Remember that this forum is primarily dedicated to the PBEM crowd.

What makes you think that?

(in reply to DD696)

Post #: 21

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 2:20:43 AM

Halsey

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
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When you start a game against the AI.
Make sure you have all the settings turned on to build and receive replacements.

If you don't, the opposing side will dwindle away.

_____________________________

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 22

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 3:07:49 AM

PaulWRoberts

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

When you start a game against the AI.
Make sure you have all the settings turned on to build and receive replacements.

If you don't, the opposing side will dwindle away.

Ouch! I wish I'd known this. Does the AI really not build at will?

(in reply to Halsey)

Post #: 23

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 5:26:32 AM

Naskra

Posts: 325
Joined: 3/12/2005
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The Japanese AI can really only put out a few months of decent effort. It cannot at all manage its economy,
first running out of nakajima engines, then everything else; KB will cease to sortie; all offensives will come to a
halt; ships will crawl purposelessly over the seas without fuel; not even the gravest strategic threat will not
awake it from its torpor.
The game will be whatever you want it to be. Fighting where the AI expects you to will yield some facsimile
of a the war, e.g. don't invade the home islands in the spring of '42, even though it's no harder than fighting in the Solomons.

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 24

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 5:31:39 AM

Halsey

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Joined: 2/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

When you start a game against the AI.
Make sure you have all the settings turned on to build and receive replacements.

If you don't, the opposing side will dwindle away.

Ouch! I wish I'd known this. Does the AI really not build at will?

Nope, it doesn't.

To continue, you should change the game to head to head.
Then go to the other side and manually change everything.
Unfortunately when you do this, you will get to see everything.

This is why ALL games started playing against the AI needs ALL settings turned on to build and receive reinforcement/upgrade.

_____________________________

(in reply to PaulWRoberts)

Post #: 25

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 6:12:33 AM

carnifex

Posts: 1295
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From: Latitude 40� 48' 43N Longtitude 74� 7' 29W
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What about playing Japan against the Allied AI? As long as you're not doing anything crazy like invading Hawaii or Brisbane, or taking over all of China right away, do the Allies put up at least a decent fight? The Allies don't really have an economy to screw up so I'm wondering if the AI at least manages to keep supplies and fuel flowing forward.

(in reply to Halsey)

Post #: 26

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 6:39:33 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

quote:

Remember that this forum is primarily dedicated to the PBEM crowd.

What makes you think that?

The fact that its true.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to Rainer)

Post #: 27

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 11:19:11 AM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

quote:

Remember that this forum is primarily dedicated to the PBEM crowd.

What makes you think that?

The fact that its true.

primarily "dedicated"

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 28

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 9:39:37 PM

Rainer

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline

I understand this forum is open for everybody who wishes to discuss aspects of WitP.
And it is not dedicated to specific preferences how the game is used or exploited.
At least I never saw any of the moderators indicating such.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 29

RE: Trying campaign against the AI - 6/22/2007 10:07:25 PM

Dino

Posts: 1032
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Serbia
Status: offline

Let's word this differently...the "dedicated" members of this forum are mostly PBEMers.

_____________________________

(in reply to Rainer)

Post #: 30

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