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OT Hybrids - 6/21/2007 8:41:25 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		I was curious if anyone owns a Hybrid car. If so, whats your opinion?

< Message edited by Zap -- 11/19/2007 7:27:24 AM >

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RE: OT Hybrids - 6/21/2007 11:43:31 PM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		Guess this is the wrong place to ask this question. Should have knon that people hear spend all their money on wargames

< Message edited by Zap -- 11/19/2007 7:27:42 AM >

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RE: OT Hybreds - 6/22/2007 2:08:04 AM   
dexbox

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline 		my parents might be getting one, when i was home last i gave them an hour rant on how they should get one since my dads company pays for the thing, i think i prett much sold them

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RE: OT Hybreds - 6/22/2007 1:21:39 PM   
Maiq

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/17/2007
Status: offline 		My gf owns a Prius and she loves it.

I couldn't own it. Not enough leg room and if I drive her's too much I'll end up crippled.

It is fun to watch the engine performance display. There is a technique of driving it so that you can get 99 mpg under the right circumstances.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 6/22/2007 1:41:48 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Priuses (Priii? ) are technically interesting and suit a lot of folks. They're not a driver's car though. The brilliant English car show "Top Gear" said that the Prius doesn't have bad handling because they don't consider it has any handling at all .

They still have a few bugs too. If you're really keen, I'd wait for the next generation. At the moment you can get nearly the same economy from a small diesel and much better dynamics for less money.

The coming hybrid diesels may be the type to watch.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 5
RE: OT Hybrids - 11/17/2007 6:25:17 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		iiI'm really happy about this new Hybrid. I did not want to sacrifice the big car for fuel economy. I knew the USA could do it.


LOS ANGELES -- Holy Shmoley this is going to be interesting. A giant SUV just won the Green Car of the Year Award, and I think my brain might explode.
We think the Tahoe is a kinda lame vehicle, just like the Excursion and the Sequoia and all the other too-big, too-powerful SUVs.

But the fact is, no one can stop car companies from making them if people want to buy them. And people do want to buy them; almost a third of cars sold are still large SUVs.

As much as that sucks, we can't stop it without government intervention... and we're still waiting to see how that turns out.

So long as people are buying these behemoths to haul their yachts up 17% grades at 70 mph (or get the kids home from school), it's probably a good idea to try and make them more fuel efficient.

And the Chevy Tahoe 2 Mode hybrid absolutely does that. I suppose that's why it's the "Green Car of the Year."

It's really strange to see such a collassal vehicle pinned with that label, but it's also hard to deny the power of the innovations that make this radical increase in fuel efficiency possible.

The Tahoe gets the same city fuel efficiency as a 2008 Honda Accord. In city driving, the Tahoe rarely even turns on its gasoline engine, and the 2 mode system allows the electric engine to continue assisting the car even at very high speeds, increasing highway economy as well.

City drivers get a more than a 50% increase in fuel economy by switching to the hybrid.

While 21 mpg isn't a big shocking number, it is technology being used to improve the environment. So we're going to try and stop complaining about the fact that SUVs exist, and move on to being happy that they're being improved.



< Message edited by Zap -- 11/19/2007 8:08:29 AM >

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/17/2007 6:55:36 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		I dont even have a drivers licence. Trip to work takes like 20min with a bike and just today I got a better job that is 7min away with bike.  

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/17/2007 7:01:00 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

I dont even have a drivers licence. Trip to work takes like 20min with a bike and just today I got a better job that is 7min away with bike.



And how does work for you in the deep middle of Winter?

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/17/2007 7:23:55 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		That's what X-country skis are for, Raver.

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Post #: 9
RE: OT Hybreds - 11/17/2007 8:52:02 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave
And how does work for you in the deep middle of Winter?


Just like in summer? Somtimes I get icesticks into my eyebrows but its not that bad. Othervice theres not much to it. I have used bike for 10 years now all-year-around no matter what the weather.

EDIT: note its *mountain* bike not motor bike!

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 11/17/2007 8:54:42 AM >

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Post #: 10
RE: OT Hybreds - 11/17/2007 9:37:04 AM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline

There is no way I would ride a bike to work, unless they started making Kevlar biking suits anyway. My company needs a lot of cheap land near transportation hubs, therefore we are situated in the "old" defense depot, smack dab in the middle of the 'hood. No wonder 75% of the engineers there have concealed weapons permits (I am working on my own now). When I go to work, the local residents are just finishing their parties, and when I get off they are beginning the next one. I forgot to get gas on the way to work the other day, and had to stop for 5$ worth near work to get me home. In the 60 seconds I was pumping gas I was propositioned by two prostitutes.

As to Hybrids:
If you do a lot of city driving, then the Hybrids may be the way to go for you. They aren't so wonderful for highway driving. A Ford Fiesta, or some small diesel car would be the better choice. The way Hybrids work is by converting braking energy into chemical energy (charging a battery rather than generating heat through friction in normal brake pad/shoe configurations). If you aren't in stop and go traffic all of the time, then there is no point in paying the premium for a "green" vehicle. A concern of mine about the technology is the expense of changing out the battery pack when it (and it will) loses efficiency. How much do those cost? Also, what happens if the carbon brushes in the generator (battery charger) short out? Do you a) lose all braking power, b) start a fire, or c) all of the above? I reckon I am old fashioned, but I don't like to spend my money on "cutting edge" technology, I prefer to buy it 2 or 3 generations old. There are fewer headaches that way, and less expense.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/17/2007 4:48:57 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I considered a Hybred but I just bought an Altima Coupe instead. Most of my driving is on the highway. I will certainly consider a "greener" car for my next purchase. I look forward to the day that I can get a pure electric or hydrogen fuelcell car.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/18/2007 5:05:24 AM   
gunny

 

Posts: 995
Joined: 3/1/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I considered a Hybred but I just bought an Altima Coupe instead. Most of my driving is on the highway. I will certainly consider a "greener" car for my next purchase. I look forward to the day that I can get a pure electric or hydrogen fuelcell car.


There was a pure electric car. It was called the EV1. Made by GM. It was pretty damn good and leased to hundreds of people. It would have evolved into something remarkable by now. THEN Texaco bought the company in michigan that produced the batteries and powerful capacitor to start it. Closed down this company. GM then collected all the EV1's as the leases expired. They were taken straight to the wrecking yard and crushed.

Personally I ride a bike to work. I don't do oil if I can help it anymore. Even though I fought for it I'm sure. Electricity is not owned by the oil companies, BUT hydrogen fuel cell technology is. So guess where the future lies.

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Post #: 13
RE: OT Hybreds - 11/18/2007 10:13:28 AM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I considered a Hybred but I just bought an Altima Coupe instead. Most of my driving is on the highway. I will certainly consider a "greener" car for my next purchase. I look forward to the day that I can get a pure electric or hydrogen fuelcell car.


There was a pure electric car. It was called the EV1. Made by GM. It was pretty damn good and leased to hundreds of people. It would have evolved into something remarkable by now. THEN Texaco bought the company in michigan that produced the batteries and powerful capacitor to start it. Closed down this company. GM then collected all the EV1's as the leases expired. They were taken straight to the wrecking yard and crushed.

Personally I ride a bike to work. I don't do oil if I can help it anymore. Even though I fought for it I'm sure. Electricity is not owned by the oil companies, BUT hydrogen fuel cell technology is. So guess where the future lies.


Hydrogen fuel cell technology....
No offense, but there are huge, probably insurmountable technical and logistical hurdles to ever see that in use. That isn't even mentioning the liability issues of driving around with tanks of hydrogen gas. If it weren't so late I would enumerate the problems with the concept but I am off to bed. Visualizing hydrogen cell technology in anything other than isolated and specialized applications is a pipe dream.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/18/2007 4:20:40 PM   
Sarge


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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/18/2007 5:50:49 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I want one of those.

It was my understanding that a few city bus systems are already using hydrogen fuel cell technology on a very limited basis. I realize that its widespread use is not feasible today, it is simply my hope that in the future it will be another alternative.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/18/2007 8:19:38 PM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I want one of those.

It was my understanding that a few city bus systems are already using hydrogen fuel cell technology on a very limited basis. I realize that its widespread use is not feasible today, it is simply my hope that in the future it will be another alternative.


There are some pilot programs utilizing Hydrogen (H2) combustion/fuel cell technologies, but these have been primarily instituted by "feel good" politicos who have no grasp of scientific fundamentals - a failing found in nearly all politicians I am afraid. The fact of the matter is, these "green" vehicles, although not emitting CO2 or CO during their operation, likely caused the release of far more carbon in the generation of the H2 gases, unless the separation facilities draw from a nuclear powered electrical grid.

There are two sources of H2 gas: fossil fuels and water. Water you say? Great! Wrong, unfortunately, the mechanism of electrolysis (separating O2 and H2 from water) requires more energy to power the process than you get from it in the "stored" energy within the gases. Although separation of H2 from fossil fuels is a different mechanism, it also requires more energy than received in the end. As I understand though, this process is more efficient than hydrolysis but it requires the consumption of fossil fuels - which is self-defeating.

The above points are enough to make widespread usage of H2 an idea worthy of Wolkenkuckucksheim. From an infrastructure stand point, there is none. Such facilities and distribution equipment would have to be created whole-cloth - a daunting and expensive proposition, especially when the end result is a fuel that is far less efficient and more polluting.



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Post #: 17
RE: OT Hybreds - 11/18/2007 11:57:00 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Not too many people can follow the path of emissions. Hydrogen powered systems simply displace the emmisions of CO2 and usually a displacement loses energy, hence generates more CO2 than simply burning fossil fuels.

Unless the source is bio fuel or Nuc. But in order to account properly for nuc gen, one would have to consider the energy consumed in mining an processing the ore, enriching the fuel and contructing the plant.

Even a pure electric vehicle or a photovoltaic vehicle will require a certain amount of energy just to construct. I don't think anyone has ever determined the total amount of energy required to construct a photovoltaic system and done some analysis towards an energy breakeven point or a CO2 emmissions break point. It's not a slam dunk.

We just have to get used to the idea that anyhting we do to do work, will have a waste byproduct. The more work, the more waste, it's as simple as that. If you want to go back to the Horse and Buggy days, then you must deal with the horse sh1t. There's no way out of it.

Although, ocean wave energy and wind energy might be a way to maintain some level of modern civilisation with a minor expenditure if energy. Hydro is good too. But we won't be able to drive around in our own cars on that stuff.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/19/2007 2:03:42 AM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		AU Tiger, I am aware of the difficulties in any alternative to good old oil, I am just looking forward to a day when there is some alternative. I am not coming at this from an enviromentalist perspective, though I do appreciate a "clean" enviroment, but from a desire to be much less dependent on supplies of energy from unstable regions of the world. I don't care what propels my car as long as the proceeds don't go to rather unsavory governments.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/19/2007 7:36:07 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger

A concern of mine about the technology is the expense of changing out the battery pack when it (and it will) loses efficiency. How much do those cost? Also, what happens if the carbon brushes in the generator (battery charger) short out? Do you a) lose all braking power, b) start a fire, or c) all of the above?



Yes, after the more expensive initial price, another expensive cost consideration is the battery. Although there is a warranty of maybe 5 years on the battery. You will eventually have to replace it 7 to 9 years down the road. At a cost of $2,000.00 or more.
Zap

< Message edited by Zap -- 11/19/2007 8:26:14 AM >

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/19/2007 7:42:13 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

I dont even have a drivers licence. Trip to work takes like 20min with a bike and just today I got a better job that is 7min away with bike.  




Ill advised for most US Americans. Since there are great distances to travel. For example: At times I have to drive 93 miles from my job to home and that would include going from sea level to 4600 feet.
Though I'm a fan of bike riding(mountain bike) for exercise.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/19/2007 3:32:01 PM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

AU Tiger, I am aware of the difficulties in any alternative to good old oil, I am just looking forward to a day when there is some alternative. I am not coming at this from an enviromentalist perspective, though I do appreciate a "clean" enviroment, but from a desire to be much less dependent on supplies of energy from unstable regions of the world. I don't care what propels my car as long as the proceeds don't go to rather unsavory governments.


At the risk of going political here:
If you truly feel that way then contact your congressman and senator, and tell them you support drilling off-shore and in the ANWR. Yes alternative fuel sources are the way to go, eventually. Eventually meaning a loooooong time from now. We simply don't have anywhere near the technology for widespread usage of other sources of energy yet.


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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/19/2007 4:38:29 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I'm all for exploiting our own resources in order to give technological advances time to become feasible. My national elected leaders are certainly onboard.

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Preaching to the Choir - 11/19/2007 5:00:35 PM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I'm all for exploiting our own resources in order to give technological advances time to become feasible. My national elected leaders are certainly onboard.


True, the nationally elected leadership is onboard, but the legislature is another story. Congress, many members of whom are beholden to the wacky zealot environmentalism lobby, have shot down every initiative to open drilling. Current EPA regulations make it nearly impossible to construct refineries today also.


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RE: Preaching to the Choir - 11/19/2007 9:49:50 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I'm from coal country and a red state, so no problem here. Liquified coal is all the rage here at the moment.

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RE: OT Hybreds - 11/19/2007 10:02:18 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
As to Hybrids:
If you do a lot of city driving, then the Hybrids may be the way to go for you. They aren't so wonderful for highway driving. A Ford Fiesta, or some small diesel car would be the better choice. The way Hybrids work is by converting braking energy into chemical energy (charging a battery rather than generating heat through friction in normal brake pad/shoe configurations). If you aren't in stop and go traffic all of the time, then there is no point in paying the premium for a "green" vehicle.


In London, hybrids are also exempt from paying the £8 ($16) daily congestion charge. That makes for a big saving if you have the car for a few years. The fuel economy ratings of a Prius are also very good for driving around town.

What really annoys me about these cars is watching them overtaking me on the highway when they are doing 90mph. That sort of driving completely defies the point of owning a hybrid, where the extra power train is nothing more than excess weight.

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Post #: 26
RE: OT Hybreds - 11/20/2007 8:21:30 AM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobeer


In London, hybrids are also exempt from paying the £8 ($16) daily congestion charge. That makes for a big saving if you have the car for a few years. The fuel economy ratings of a Prius are also very good for driving around town.

What really annoys me about these cars is watching them overtaking me on the highway when they are doing 90mph. That sort of driving completely defies the point of owning a hybrid, where the extra power train is nothing more than excess weight.




How often is that charge levied? Monthly, weekly, or yearly, not daily I hope!

You have the wrong attitude apparently about hybrid drivers: Even though they are motoring along at 90 MPH, they are doing it in a HYBRID! Not only are they saving the unborn baby gay whales with every passing mile, they are impressing their friends with how environmentally conscious they are.

My uncle is one of those. He is an unreconstructed hippy living way out in the country. Driving a hybrid gives him a sense of superiority over the rest of the rest of us "unwashed masses".
He is family, but more importantly an AUBURN fan, therefore he is still a fine fellow.


WAR EAGLE!


EDIT: A grammatical time-out for our cousins across the pond.

"Unreconstructed" is actually a word we recognize in the Southern US, dating back to the end of The War Of Northern Aggression.


< Message edited by AU Tiger -- 11/20/2007 8:34:03 AM >

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Post #: 27
RE: OT Hybreds - 11/22/2007 9:04:50 PM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		AU Tiger,


If I rob you tommorow will I still be a fine man. That is, if I was an Auburn Tiger fan, right?

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