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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/4/2007 12:39:29 AM   
Dixie


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Here are three of my favourites.

Avro Vulcan, broke the record for the longest range bombing mission in history. Ascension to the Falklands in 1982.
Vickers VC-10, Queen of the Skies and currently the fastest airliner in service (plus it's keeping me employed )
de Havilland Mosquito, fast, agile and generally pretty damn awesome










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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/4/2007 6:46:04 AM   
Neilster


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I like the V-Bombers. They remind me of grainy colour documentaries from the 60s about the RAF, with Lightnings and the like sitting around on rain-slicked flightlines, featuring narrators who speak in clipped, upper-class tones .

I've always thought the 4 engines at the back of the VC-10 look cool. I had books as a kid with pictures of BOAC ones in them, blasting off to some corner of the Empire.

As for the Mossie, it's just a dead-set classic. One of my favourite aircraft.

Speaking of old footage, when I was doing my aerospace trade training in the RAAF, we watched a lot of RAF safety videos. Some of them were pretty old and had excellent cold-war jets and some killer sideburns. Our instructors showed us a foreign object damage (FOD) one that they said they weren't supposed to show any more because it was completely politically incorrect, but as we were all blokes...

I reckon it was from about 1972 and it featured a middle-aged chap (Dr Fod) and a young, foxy, busty brunette in an outrageously short miniskirt and tight top (Miss Wayward-Body). Basically Dr Fod spent the entire film perving on her as she bent over and clambered suggestively into intakes etc, looking for foreign objects and tools (no sniggering in the back row ) Anyway, it worked because it was the only FOD safety film any of us could remember later on . I just thought you might have been shown it Dixie. It's an absolute classic.

Cheers, Neilster



< Message edited by Neilster -- 6/4/2007 10:36:26 AM >

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/4/2007 11:36:06 AM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster


Speaking of old footage, when I was doing my aerospace trade training in the RAAF, we watched a lot of RAF safety videos. Some of them were pretty old and had excellent cold-war jets and some killer sideburns. Our instructors showed us a foreign object damage (FOD) one that they said they weren't supposed to show any more because it was completely politically incorrect, but as we were all blokes...

I reckon it was from about 1972 and it featured a middle-aged chap (Dr Fod) and a young, foxy, busty brunette in an outrageously short miniskirt and tight top (Miss Wayward-Body). Basically Dr Fod spent the entire film perving on her as she bent over and clambered suggestively into intakes etc, looking for foreign objects and tools (no sniggering in the back row ) Anyway, it worked because it was the only FOD safety film any of us could remember later on . I just thought you might have been shown it Dixie. It's an absolute classic.

Cheers, Neilster




We got to see that one too It was not an official part of the training program though The most memorable scene (for me at least) was the one where they had the young lady in front of a Lightining's intakes before the throttled up, with dire consequences for her clothing


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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/4/2007 3:21:46 PM   
Neilster


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quote:

We got to see that one too It was not an official part of the training program though The most memorable scene (for me at least) was the one where they had the young lady in front of a Lightining's intakes before the throttled up, with dire consequences for her clothing


That's right! I'd forgotten about that bit. You'd be strung up by the unmentionables with rusty barbed wire if you made that today. In those days it was officially sanctioned government material, payed for with taxpayers' money.

Cheers, Neilster

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/4/2007 3:30:08 PM   
JudgeDredd


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I dig the Mosquito too...I thought it was a very versatile plane and sexy to boot.

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/4/2007 5:24:20 PM   
Neilster


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Here's a couple of pictures of the Highball Mosquito and one of the Tsetse fly variant. Both were naval strike aircraft, with the former using bouncing bombs and the latter a 6 pounder cannon. Highball was developed to be used against German capital ships but proved temperamental and ultimately wasn't needed in that role (bit of a pity really. That would have been extremely cool...an RAF cameraman in one of the Mosquitoes capturing footage of bouncing bombs skipping over torpedo nets and exploding under the Tirpitz, with furious flak and a backdrop of sheer Norwegian cliffs). Later it was to be used against Japanese shipping in the Pacific but the war ended before it could be employed. The 6 pounder was quite successful against U-boats but AFAIK rockets proved easier to use in practice.

Cheers, Neilster










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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/4/2007 11:06:22 PM   
Arctic Blast


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Allow me to 'third' the love-in for the Mosquito. Was there a role that plane didn't perform effectively in?

Also from WW2, I always thought the F4U Corsair was a cool looking plane...I think part of the allure was how different those gull wings made it look...I don't know how else to explain it beyond...it looked like a fighter plane.


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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/6/2007 12:21:47 AM   
oi_you_nutter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Here are three of my favourites.

Avro Vulcan, broke the record for the longest range bombing mission in history. Ascension to the Falklands in 1982.
Vickers VC-10, Queen of the Skies and currently the fastest airliner in service (plus it's keeping me employed )
de Havilland Mosquito, fast, agile and generally pretty damn awesome







...


just finished the book "Vulcan 607: The Most Ambitious British Boming Raid Since the Dambusters" by Rowland White, its about the Black Buck raids on the Falklands Islands from Ascension Isle, its a great read about brave men and a great aircraft.

back in the 90's, when i worked at BAe Filton. we watched the VC-10s being ferry flown in with fixed landing gears and a chase plane, they were being refurbed at Filton into tankers for the RAF. it was rumored that pilots were paid danger money to fly an aircraft that had been made (just enough) flight ready after years in storage.


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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/6/2007 5:13:21 PM   
Neilster


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The P-47N was a major redesign of the basically excellent P-47 to incorporate aerodynamic improvements and to provide it with much longer range. The wings were modified with extended span and squared off tips. This both increased roll rate and provided room for wing fuel tanks. Although not a highly manoeuvrable aircraft at lower levels, the turbo-supercharged P-47 was unmatched at high altitude where air combat was increasingly being fought. It's air-cooled power-plant, general toughness, heavy firepower, ability to lift large bomb-loads and stability as a gun platform made it a superlative ground attack machine as well.

This resilience is hard to overstate. Sleek looking water-cooled aircraft were extremely vulnerable to battle damage. Any hit to their coolant systems meant the engine packing up in literally seconds. The air-cooled Thunderbolt had a legendary reputation for getting home after absorbing massive damage. On top of this, the under-fuselage ducting for the turbo represented a crumple zone during a wheels-up emergency landing which added to safety, as opposed to a ventral intake that tended to dig in and flip the aircraft. Well over 1500 were produced and they were deployed to the Pacific in numbers. One of the best piston engined fighters.

Cheers, Neilster



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< Message edited by Neilster -- 6/7/2007 7:42:00 PM >

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/6/2007 11:36:53 PM   
Hartford688

 

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Sorry, don't have a nice photo I can attach, but this link is a good shot:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1148976/L

Hawker Skyhawk. Now that is a beautiful jet (though I agree with the Hunter). Saw the one at Duxford a couple of months ago.

< Message edited by Hartford688 -- 6/6/2007 11:39:25 PM >

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/6/2007 11:46:26 PM   
pauk


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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/7/2007 3:34:00 AM   
Neilster


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Well...I couldn't resist posting some Ho 229 pictures.

Cheers, Neilster

Edited to include a couple more.










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< Message edited by Neilster -- 6/27/2007 5:03:34 PM >

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/20/2007 4:38:06 PM   
Neilster


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I believe this contra-turboprop is an Armstrong Siddeley Python under test in the U.S. The date looks like 24 AUG 1949. From Wikipedia...

The Armstrong-Siddeley Python was an early British turboprop engine designed and built by the Armstrong Siddeley company. Its main use was in the Westland Wyvern carrier-based heavy fighter, the turboprop engine replacing the Wyvern prototype's original Rolls-Royce Eagle 22 piston engine. In this application, the Python was rated at 4,110 EHP.

The design started as an experimental pure-turbojet known as the ASX, which started running in 1943. By this point other engine designs were already entering pre-production, and it seemed there was little need for the ASX in its existing form. The design was then modified into the turboprop layout with the addition of a second turbine stage, which was geared to the propeller.

Early flight-testing of the Python was carried out using the Lancaster B.1 (FE) TW911 and the Lincoln B.2 RE339/G, each aircraft having the two outboard Rolls-Royce Merlins replaced by Pythons. Lincoln B.2 RF403 also had two Pythons similarly installed and was used for high-altitude bombing trials at Woomera, South Australia, the Pythons being used to increase the height from which tests could be carried out.



Because I was a fighter technician I like images that show the people and technology behind aerospace and this is a good example. Lots of nuts and bolts, pipes, hoses, wiring and a dude in overalls with a rag in his back pocket.

Cheers, Neilster





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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/25/2007 4:50:56 AM   
Neilster


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I think one of the most interesting periods of aerospace history begins in the early 30s when many theoretical aerodynamic breakthroughs and engineering advances were being incorporated in new aircraft. This process was accelerated by WW2, by the end of which the gas turbine and swept wing heralded a new era. As a result, the mid to late 40s were a time of flux where designs were often quickly overtaken by the rush of new technologies. One such aircraft was the Bristol Brabazon... (from Wikipedia)

Development

In 1942, during World War II, the US and UK agreed to split responsibility for aircraft construction; the U.S. would concentrate on transport aircraft while the UK would concentrate on their heavy bombers. This would leave the UK with little experience in transport construction at the end of the war, so in 1943 a committee met under the leadership of Lord Brabazon of Tara in order to investigate the future needs of the British civilian airliner market.

The Brabazon Committee delivered a report, later known simply as the "Brabazon Report", calling for the construction of four of five general designs they had studied. Type I was a large transatlantic airliner, Type III a smaller airliner for the Empire air routes, and Type IV a jet powered 500 mph (800 km/h) airliner. The Type I and IV were considered to be very important to the industry, notably the jet powered Type IV which would give the UK a commanding lead in jet transports.

Bristol had already studied a large bomber design starting as early as 1937, but nothing had come of this. In 1942 the Air Ministry published a tender for a new super-heavy bomber design, and Bristol dusted off their original work and updated it for their newer and much more powerful Bristol Centaurus engines. This led to a design with a range of 5,000 miles (8,000 km), 225 foot (69 m) wing span, eight engines buried in the wings driving four pusher propellers, and enough fuel for transatlantic range. This "100 ton bomber" was in many ways the British analogue to the American Convair B-36. However the Air Ministry later changed their mind and decided to continue to pursue versions of the Avro Lancaster (leading to the Avro Lincoln) instead.

Only a year later the Brabazon Report was published and Bristol was able to respond with a slightly modified version of their bomber to fill the needs for the Type I requirement. Their earlier work was exactly the sort of performance the Brabazon committee was looking for, and they were given a contract for two prototype aircraft. After further work on the design a final concept was published in November 1944. It was for a 177 ft (53.9 m) fuselage with 230 ft (70.1 m) wingspan (35 ft (11 m) more than a Boeing 747) powered by eight Bristol Centaurus 18-cylinder radial engines nested in pairs in the wing. These drove eight paired contra-rotating propellers on four forward-facing nacelles.

The Brabazon Report was backward-thinking in one aspect however. When considering the people who would fly in the aircraft they designed, they thought in the context of wealthy people who were the only ones able to afford it at that point. The idea that a larger aircraft would make flying less expensive never appears to have occurred to them. Instead they assumed that the wealthy flying the plane would consider a long trip by air to be uncomfortable, and they designed the Type I for luxury, demanding 6 m³ (200 ft³) of room for every passenger, and 8 m³ (270 ft³) for luxury. This is about three times the interior room of a small car.

In order to meet these requirements the Type 167 initially specified a huge 25 foot (7.6 m) diameter fuselage, which is about 5 ft (1.5 m) greater than a 747, with upper and lower decks. This enclosed sleeping berths for 80 passengers, a dining room, 37 seat movie theatre, promenade and bar; or day seats for 150 people. The Committee recommended a narrower fuselage designed for 50 passengers. BOAC agreed, but preferred a design for only 25 passengers. An agreement with the airline eventually led to an interior layout housing a forward area with six compartments, each for six passengers and a seventh for just three; a mid-section above the wing with 38 seats arranged around tables in groups of four with a pantry and galley; and a rear area with 23 seats in an aft-facing movie theatre with a cocktail bar and lounge.

A tremendous amount of effort was put into saving weight. The Type 167 used a number of non-standard gauges of skinning in order to tailor every panel to the strength required, thereby saving several tonnes of metal. The large span and mounting of the engines close inboard, together with structural weight economies, demanded some new measure to prevent bending of wing surfaces in turbulence. A system of gust alleviation was developed for the Brabazon, using servos triggered from a probe in the aircraft's nose. Hydraulic power units were also designed to operate the giant control surfaces. The Brabazon was the first aircraft with 100% powered flying controls, the first with electric engine controls, and the first with high-pressure hydraulics.

Building the aircraft was a challenge in itself. Bristol's factory in Filton was far too small to handle what was one of the largest aircraft in the world, and the local 2,000 ft (610 m) runway was too short to launch it. Construction of the first prototype's fuselage started in October 1945 in another hangar while a considerably larger assembly hall was built for final assembly and the runway was lengthened to 8,000 ft (2,440 m).

In 1946 it was decided to make the second prototype based on the Bristol Coupled Proteus turboprop engines instead of the less powerful Centaurus, increasing cruising speed from 260 to 330 mph (420 to 530 km/h) while reducing the empty weight by about 10,000 lb (4.5 t). This would be known as the Brabazon Mark II, which would be able to cross the Atlantic in a reduced time of 12 hours.

The Mk.I aircraft rolled out for engine runs in December 1948, and flew for the first time on 4 September 1949. Four days later it was presented at the Farnborough Air Show before starting testing in earnest. During June 1950 she visited London's Heathrow Airport, making a number of successful takeoffs and landings, and was demonstrated at the 1951 Paris Air Show. By this point BOAC had lost any interest in the design, if it ever really had any, and although some interest was shown by BEA on flying the prototype itself, various problems that would be expected of a prototype meant it never received an airworthiness certificate.

By 1952 about £3.4m had been spent on development and it showed no signs of being purchased by any airline. In March the British government announced that work on the second prototype had been postponed. In October 1953, after less than 400 hours flying time, the first prototype was broken up, along with the uncompleted Mk.II prototype. All that remains are a few parts at the Bristol Industrial Museum and Scotland's Museum of Flight.

Although considered a failure and a white elephant, the record of the Brabazon is not all unfavourable. At least half of the money spent on the project was put into infrastructure, including the large hangars and runway at Filton. This meant that Bristol was now in an excellent position to continue production of other designs. In addition, many of the techniques developed as a part of the Brabazon project were applicable to any aircraft, not just airliners.

Bristol had also won the contract for the "unimportant" Type III aircraft, which they delivered as the Bristol Britannia. Using all of the advancements of the Brabazon meant it had the best payload fraction of any aircraft up to that point, and kept that record for a number of years. Although the Britannia was delayed after problems with the Type IV, the De Havilland Comet, it went on to be a workhorse for many airlines into the 1970s. The Britannia is still considered by many[attribution needed] to be the ultimate propeller driven airliner.


I think the Brabazon is a fantastic looking aircraft and captures the optimistic, post-war mood of a time when aerospace technology seemed to have boundless potential.

I found an excellent, jaunty, period movie of it here (got to love the clipped, upper class accents of the English newsreel guys back then)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miRV-SgYx7Q

Cheers, Neilster











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< Message edited by Neilster -- 6/26/2007 4:46:23 PM >

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/27/2007 3:59:13 PM   
robpost3


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Nice hanger picture...call me a sucker for punishment but I always find fascinating the amount of pre-work assembly design that goes into engineering. Creating scaffolds, chambers, clamping systems etc., that allows the process to begin, that to me is hardest part...creating the the parts: from material research/mining/refinement to exacting bench work to assembly method and housings. After that it is all fine, and fun; like opening a Monogram or Tamiya box and kit bashing it together

S-3 Viking napping in the sun...




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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 6/27/2007 5:15:03 PM   
Neilster


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I agree. I also like the look of aircraft on the ground, taxiing or lined up on a flightline (possibly because I've spent so much time around fighters doing just this). They have a different presence on their undercarriage.

I edited my Ho 229 post above to include a flightline image. I believe it's at Rechlin, the Luftwaffe experimental aircraft base near Berlin, in early 1945. It looks like a generator is plugged into the jet in preparation for an engine start. There are observers posted around the aircraft looking for anything untoward and a fire extinguisher is on hand. Little has changed to this day, except most aircraft start on internal power.

Cheers, Neilster


< Message edited by Neilster -- 6/27/2007 5:16:54 PM >

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 7/4/2007 5:23:48 AM   
Fredk

 

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Hi Neilster - do you have links to any of those drawings that show the size of modern air superiority fighters in relation to a human silhoutte? I tried googling but couldn't find any.

The reason I ask is because I am trying to illustrate the size of modern aircraft to my gf. She saw the video of this alleged apache rescue in Iraq and asked why they just didn't get inside. I told her it is a two seat a/c - to which she responsed, "There isn't any cargo space? But it is big!"

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 7/4/2007 5:57:31 AM   
Neilster


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Ah, no sorry. Any image with a scale will give an indication as an adult male is typically just under 6 foot tall (183cm).

You could also tell her that the insides are full of fuel, engines, hydraulics, pneumatics, emergency systems, redundant systems, armour, Auxiliary Power Units, climate control systems, oxygen tanks and a dozen other things.

In a lot of ways, aircraft have got smaller anyway. A modern fighter might be bigger than it's WW2 equivalent but it can carry as heavy a load of ordnance as a 4-engined WW2 bomber.

Cheers, Neilster

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RE: Neilster's cool aerospace thing thread - 7/4/2007 6:19:25 AM   
Neilster


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Speaking of 4-engined WW2 bombers and heavy ordnance...here's a Lancaster dropping a 22,000lb (10,000kg) Grand Slam bomb, probably in March 1945.

From Wikipedia...

The Grand Slam (Earth Quake bomb), was a very large freefall bomb developed by the British aeronautical engineer Barnes Wallis (who also made the bouncing bomb) in late 1944. At a weight of 9.98 t (22,000 lb) the Grand Slam was almost twice the weight of his previous large bomb, the 5.44 t (12,000 lb) Tallboy. Both weapons were intended for use against large and protected buildings, structures against which smaller bombs would be ineffective. The name grand slam comes from the game of bridge, where it is a term that means winning all the tricks, "cleaning the table".

Development history

The idea of the earthquake bomb was explored by Barnes Wallis at the very start of the war (see Tallboy bomb for the principle of his "earthquake" bombs and their intended purpose in strategic warfare), but at the time there were no aircraft capable of carrying the 10-ton weapon he envisaged (notwithstanding Wallis's suggestions to build one, a six-engine high-altitude bomber called "Victory"). Wallis returned to his designs in the latter part of the war and the first earthquake bomb he developed was the 5-ton Tallboy. It proved effective in demolishing large structures, including heavily-protected bunkers (it was thus an early "bunker buster").

The reasoning behind the earth penetration bomb is that explosive energy is transmitted more efficiently in a non-compressible medium. Barnes Wallis used the non-compressible nature of water as a factor in the bouncing bombs. The earthquake bomb was designed to penetrate the earth and explode some 30 m down. An explosion carried through the medium of the earth would thus cause damage for a much greater distance than if the bomb were to explode in open air. Wallis also understood that bomb aiming was very poor at the time. The major advantage of the earthquake bomb, therefore, was that it could miss by hundreds of yards and still achieve the desired result. The intention before the war started was to destroy dams, railway bridges and general infrastructure. Thus it is possible that German industry and infrastructure could have been seriously damaged with minimal loss of civilian lives, compared to area bombing. His ideas were not fully understood, appreciated, or even realisable at the time.

When it was calculated that the Avro Lancaster B1 Special bombers used for Tallboy could carry an even larger bomb, work started on the Grand Slam, which was effectively a scaled-up Tallboy. The new design was highly aerodynamic, with a long tail incorporating offset fins, causing it to spin as it fell and stabilizing it, much as the spin imparted by the rifling of a gun barrel increases the accuracy of a bullet. The spin also allowed the bomb to reach supersonic speeds, as the increased stability enabled it to pass through the sound barrier without wobbling or being thrown off-course.

The Grand Slam had a much thicker case than typical World War II bombs, so it would survive the impact of hitting a hardened surface. The hardened steel bomb casing was cast in one piece in a sand mould using a concrete core. Torpex was then poured in, bucket by bucket. When filled, the hot molten explosive took a month to cool down and set, greatly limiting production. Like the Tallboy, the rate of production and material and manpower investment in each bomb meant that aircrews were told to land with their unused bombs on board, rather than jettison them into the sea if a sortie was aborted.

When dropped from high altitude onto compacted earth, the Grand Slam would penetrate over 40 metres into the ground. The explosion would leave a camouflet (cavern) which would undermine foundations of structures above, causing collapse. This is what happened to the Bielefeld railway viaduct, the first enemy target destroyed by a Grand Slam.

Post-war the Handley Page Victor was designed with the provision to carry either a single Grand Slam, or two of the smaller Tallboys, internally.

The bomb was also built in the US where it was designated as "Bomb, GP, 22,000-lb, M110 (T-14)". The US developed a larger bomb using the same principles as the Grand Slam, the T-12 Cloudmaker, which weighed 20,000 kg (44,000 lb) , but it was not employed operationally.

Operational use

The 'B1 (Special)' Lancaster bomber could only carry one at a time and it had to be dropped from 22,000 feet (6700 m) which limited its accuracy. The Grand Slam was first used on March 14, 1945 when the Royal Air Force No. 617 "Dambusters" Squadron, lead by Squadron Leader C.C. Calder, attacked the Bielefeld railway viaduct destroying two spans of the viaduct.[1]

The viaduct at Arnsberg was bombed on 15 March 1945 with 2 Grand Slams and 14 Tallboy bombs but they failed to bring the viaduct down. Four days later on 19 March 1945 another attack by No 617 Squadron using 6 Grand Slams was successful and a 12 m (40 ft) gap was blown in the viaduct.[1]

Farge is a small port on the Weser River north of Bremen, and was the site of an oil-storage depot and the Valentin submarine pens that were attacked by the RAF on 27 March 1945. The pens had a ferrous concrete roof up to 7 metres (23 feet) thick. Two Grand Slam bombs penetrated parts of the pen with a 4.5 m-thick roof[2][3]

Grand Slams were also successfully used against the Huuge and Brest submarine pens. By the end of the war 41 Grand Slam bombs had been dropped, mainly against bridges and viaducts.


The first image is a bit fuzzy because I used a fractal decompression plug-in for Photoshop to expand a pretty small image. It does, however, show the chains that were linked by an explosive bolt to secure the bomb. The weapon was too large to fit in even a Lancaster's cavernous bomb bay, so the doors were removed and it was carried "semi-conformally" (in today's speak). That is, partly exposed to the slipstream. Luckily bombs are streamlined so this wasn't much of a problem. When that bolt blew and the chains separated, the aircraft would leap upward with the sudden release of 10 tonnes.

Cheers, Neilster











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