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Strategic Eastern front games - 6/27/2007 5:22:50 PM

Chris21wen
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Could anybody tell me if there're any recently designed games based on the Eastern front similar to WIR. I seem to remember someboby was bringing one out but I've never seen it?

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 6/27/2007 5:51:24 PM

freeboy
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There has been a loooooong design from 2x3 games.. Gary grigsby's design and development team but who knows if it will ever surface.. nothing here I am afraid.. TOAW3 sold here has lots of Eastern front scenarios.. some with ia somewithout

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 6/27/2007 6:02:14 PM

Neilster
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Matrix's The Operational Art of War 3 has heaps of Eastern Front scenarios, with small, medium and large scales. They include Barbarossa 41, 41-45 ones, Bargration, hypotheticals, Stalingrad, Kharkov and many more. Not to mention the dozens of other WW2, WW1, Cold War, modern and near future scenarios. It's an excellent game if you're interested in anything 20th Century warfare. You won't regret buying it.

Korsun Pocket is very good also but much more limited in scope. When World in Flames comes out, you'll be able to play the Eastern Front to your heart's content, with the added interest of Arctic convoys, the Battle of the Atlantic, Japanese invasions of the Soviet Far East, Axis invasions of the Near East, production, politics etc.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=110&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1

Here's a very early (and much lower resolution than the final ones will be) screenshot of the northern part of the Eastern Front early in Barbarossa.

Cheers, Neilster

Attachment (1)

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 6/27/2007 8:36:53 PM

Zakhal
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Matrix's The Operational Art of War 3 has heaps of Eastern Front scenarios, with small, medium and large scales. They include Barbarossa 41, 41-45 ones,

Large EF scenario that covers the whole war? Is it pbem only?

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 6/27/2007 8:44:51 PM

Zakhal
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Decisive battles series that is superior to TOAW (imho atleast graphically) has lots of east front scenarios too including 1941-44 russia:

Korsun Pocket Battles in Normandy Battles in Italy Battlefront Trouble in Bastogne Kursk Run5 Husky Variant Crusader Gallipoli Overlord - On To Paris Patton - Master of Battle Tutorial Assault on Port Stanley Rommel - Master of Battle Rommel - Master of Battle Kreta Steve Fords Free Landing MacArthur - Master of Battle A Wolf By The Ears Patton - Master of Battle War in Europe - June 1941 El Alamein III Luzon Patton's Husky Hells Gate MacArthur - Master of Battle Operation Merkur Operation Wanda Crimea 1854 Burma Campaign Rommel - Master of Battle Liberation Campaign Rocroi - 1643 Operation Husky Crimea 1854 On To Antwerp Run5 Operation Shingle Variant Velikiye Luki On To Rome Kursk Fall Weiss Patton in Charge MegaCampaign - Churchill Island Campaign TAO5 Battle for Moscow On To Moscow Velikiye Luki KT’s Operation Market Garden Sea Lion 1940

Som of them have AI som are only pbem. The 1941 War in Europe covers the entire map of europe (including russia naturally).

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 6/27/2007 8:51:16 PM >

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 6/27/2007 11:06:21 PM

JamesM
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There was a game to be called "Road to Moscow", but it became vapourware. Shame, from the screen shots and the information given it looked like it could have been a very good game.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 6/28/2007 3:07:54 AM

Neilster
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Matrix's The Operational Art of War 3 has heaps of Eastern Front scenarios, with small, medium and large scales. They include Barbarossa 41, 41-45 ones,

Large EF scenario that covers the whole war? Is it pbem only?

There are a few at different scales from memory. I'm not sure about which sides have AI for the 41-45 ones. I'm at work so I can't check. Someone else might know. Sorry.

Cheers, Neilster

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 6/28/2007 10:46:24 AM

Dave Ferguson
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As far as i know there are currently no strategic games covering the eastern front. For strategic I presume you want to have control over your production process.

The operational art of war IMO sufffers from far too much detail and you may end up in endless arguments about the relevant virtues of differing aircraft variants. However you cannot produce just what you want.

Commander, Europe at War is a new game which covers the eastern front at strategic level so you might want to check out the forum here at Matrix. The hex scale is somewhat similar to WIR. At present there is no specifically russian scenario, you come with the baggage of the western front.

A lot of gamers like to have more hexes available to allow for a more operational feel to their gaming but here you are moving toward operational level with production. The operation art of war IMO does not give a good overall feeling of operational war because of its peculier supply handling and more importantly lack of command changes, your formations are locked from the start of the game.

Strategic Command would allow you to cover the eastern front if you can live with squares rather than hexes and a 'isometric' map, not sure whether it has production though.

Decision games are developing War in Europe which is a computer port of SPI's classic board game, it has lots of hexes but simple generic units, a panzer division is a panzer division. You do have production though. however it is NOT a new design and there is no AI, for some this will be a advantage.

Schwerpunkts Russo-German war covered the eastern front at the grand operational level but is now an 'old' game and the hoped for sequel is a long way away due to the developers day job committments.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 6/28/2007 10:59:40 AM

Dave Ferguson
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On the slitherine site they just posted that the first patch of Commander, Europe At War will incude a scenario and MAP editor, so a specific east front variant might be possible.

Thinks, a remake of Schwerpukts Russo-German War is a possibility!!!!

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/10/2007 9:39:01 AM

Chris21wen
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Thanks for the replies guys, but it seems I'll have to keep playing WiR. The game that I was thinking about was Road to Moscow. Pity.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/10/2007 8:15:40 PM

ravinhood
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There's also Russo German War by Schwerpunkt games Ron Dockal independent developer. It has the Barbarossa campaign as well. It's probably not as user friendly as the above pictured game or TOAW III, but, quite a good simulation none the less. Just google it eitehr by Russo German War or Schwerpunkt and you'll probably find it. I think NWS can get it for you also.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/10/2007 11:58:41 PM

sullafelix
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RGW has no AI to help you correct? Like being able to delegate somethings to the computer, such as air or what have you. It's just like a boardgame where you have yo move every piece and every decision is yours. Or am I mistaken.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/11/2007 3:09:20 PM

ravinhood
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messed up trying to do URL's hehe sorry. ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 7/11/2007 3:47:10 PM >

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/11/2007 3:32:04 PM

ravinhood
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ORIGINAL: ravinhood

YES RGW has an AI read futher. The more recent game is Anglo German War Check out these AGW screenshots awesome of the Western theater of operations to include Africa has an AI as well. These are as close to your board game conversions as you're likely to see for most computer wargames. I like that about Schwerpunkt games. He does things like they outta be done. Hexes and dice and great looking counters we all grew up knowing and playing with. Well all of us who grew up in the 60's and 70's that is. lol

Follow this LINK SCHWERPUNKT to get more info about the game and screenshots.

quote:

From Wargamer Bronze Game of the Year review:
Russo-German War '41 - '44 excels at play balance. Both the German and the Russian player has an equal chance of winning any one of the 51 scenarios. This is possible because victory is determined by how well one plays against an opponent and not based on destroying the opposing army or holding all the cities in Russia. At the end of each scenario, each player receives a letter grade (from A+ to F-), which is based on the number of cities held, the number of enemy units destroyed, and the number of losses sustained (each of which is compared to the historical value and the amount of difference is used to derive the letter grade). Thus, victory is not a pursuit for some abstract number, but a determination of how well each individual performed against his opponent as well as his historical counterpart. The manual hits the mark when it states: "It is very difficult to obtain an A, and almost impossible in some scenarios. To achieve a C+ means you have done better than your historical counterpart, and is cause for celebration." Russo-German War '41 - '44 will have players thinking so hard that it may cause them to break out in a sweat.

Page 6

Previous Page

Russo-German War '41-'44

AI and Multi-Player Gaming
As an opponent, the AI is extremely competent and players will find it difficult to beat. The AI is good at finding the weakness in a player's line or plan of attack. While capable in both the defensive and offensive roles, the AI can sometimes react slowly to serious threats against its position, such as failing to defend key cities adequately or retreating to a better line. However, the same could be said of practically any human opponent. Those who wish to face a human opponent can do so either head-to-head or PBEM.

This is probably the single best Barbarossa East Front computer game on the market. By an independent developer who still works for a living and makes great games in his garage (as it always should have been done imho) ;) Follow this LINK to WARGAMERS excellent Review of "Russo German War" Bronze Medal Winner in 2001

quote:

RGW has no AI to help you correct? Like being able to delegate somethings to the computer, such as air or what have you. It's just like a boardgame where you have yo move every piece and every decision is yours. Or am I mistaken.

I'm not sure what you are asking?? Do you mean does the AI play the game FOR YOU when you play? No, it doesn't do that. It plays against you and you have to play your side of coursel. Why would you want a game where the ai plays for you? That sounds like those games HTTR/COTA, don't understand why anyone would want games like that where the ai plays and you just watch or only give miniscule orders. Why play a wargame in the first place if you didn't want to play it to begin with? lol

One things most certain you better like MONSTER games and lots of detail and depth if you want to tackle this baby. This is the Drang Nach whatchamacallit of computer wargames. lol

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 7/11/2007 3:58:06 PM >

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/11/2007 8:49:29 PM

sullafelix
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Yes I guess I'm one of those twisted freaks who likes to be able to give orders to a subordinate AI. I do like boardgames and as you did grew up on them. But I prefer smaller counter sets than monster games. I really loved the SSG 80's games where you could choose to do either. I don't have the time anymore to move every brigade and support piece in a theater as large as the Russian front. Thats why I and a lot of others were so bummed at the vaporware status of Road to Moscow. Now that looked like a winner.

Also V4V and Panthers games Kiev etc. gave you the option to let the AI run your Air or supply or both. I was very grieved to hear from SSG that they would probably never release a game anymore where you didn't have to take care of every fromation and support. I was really hoping that Battlefront was an updated version of Panzer Battles. Don't get me wrong I bought it and like it.

In the meantime I will get on with my life while you will continue adding up the odds for an attack of three units against Poltava and then start planning next weeks moves, literally.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/11/2007 10:24:22 PM

ravinhood
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Lol who said I played these games NOWADAYS?? I just like HEXES and DICE didn't you read the fine print? haha There's an old SSI game called "SECOND FRONT" as well. Old DOS game that's not too complicated and doesn't have 10,000 pieces to move every turn. I finished a game of that one. I'd say it's more like "Advanced Tactics" looks that is coming out soon and is much easier to play the Eastern front than say this "Russo German War". In fact I really don't like Eastern Front games. Why do people want to play the Germans or Russians??? I like playing the Americans or Brits or France. I'm a big fan of the Western Theater and Africa myself. But, I still don't care for the monster games. But, if you REEELY want a monster game of the Normandy Invasion get this. D-Day The Beginning of the End
That is definitely THE LONGEST DAY the LONGEST MONTH the LONGEST YEAR the LONGEST LIFETIME of a game to play. lol If anyone ever wanted a strategy game depicting the Normandy invasion with the ability to play out EVERY SINGLE BATTLE/ATTACK tactically from beginning to end this is the monster game for you. I never even knew about this game until recently.

I really much prefer KISS games, though I do own several of these monster games and have looked at them and played a few turns. It's like the reviewer said, if you're not into these mathematical monsters of calculations and pieces then it will give you a headache straight away. Unless you can play like you're actually at war day after day until you finish, meaning little sleep and playing turn after turn only sleeping 2 hours in a 24 hour period and then playing some more then these monster games are just too hard to keep up with what you have been doing.

I didn't have computers when I was 12 so this is all we had. We spent our weekends and even afternoons playing some of these hex based wargames. Most of them the early versions before Avalon Hill started putting out games like Drang Nach whatchamacallit with 10000 units and maps the size of your garage. lol I never did advance to the monster size games. Though I helped setup many of them only to never play them. I didn't even go for Advanced Squad Leader. The origional Squad Leader was plenty enough and fine to me. ASL just created monster nightmares for me when I saw the rule book and some of the game setups.

In the early days of computing the first few wargames out were pretty much like a board wargame. There was Knights in the Desert, Tigers in the Snow, Battle for Normandy right off the bat that I can recall.

I don't recall any other early version of the eastern front, but, that "Road to Moscow" a game that was made in DOS. I know it cause I have it somewhere around here. I'll have to pull it out and tell you who made it back then. Ahh I found it "ROAD TO MOSCOW" by BA'RAC LIMITED names included in the back are JEFF BILLINGS, TERRY GRAY, JIM LONG and KEN MANISCALCO. Program Design PHIL GARDOKI and BOB BEST, Graphics Design Gred Mojher. COPYRIGHT 1984 So, Matrixgames really can use this TITLE I dont' think. I knew there was already a "Road to Moscow" game though cause I knew I had played it on the C64. ;) Also, is Jeff Billings any relation to Joel Billings?

HEY Who remembers this first GRAND STRATEGIC WW2 game "CLASH OF WILLS" by D.K.G. games? ;) Who was the designer? hehe Lol I was just reading the warranty and it has a LIFETIME replacement for $5 on the DISKETTE that 5-1/4 floppy type hahah. I wonder if they are still around there is an address to send to. 1985 Copyright. Man I had forgotten some of the great games of the 80's. This actually was one of the better ones and a decent AI. You had to play the Germans though. This is one of those KISS games I was talking about also. Build, move and attack, pretty basic pretty simple.

Oh my goodness I found one of the WORST games of the 80's GULF STRIKE by AH. This was definitely a crappy game. I never did figure out really how to play it or what the hell it was suppose to be representing. lol I think the war in the gulf that never happened. lol

Ahhh there's Carriers at War and Europe Ablaze, two of SSG's finests. ;)

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 12:28:40 AM

sullafelix
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There never was a Road to moscow that ever came out that I knew of. It was a Frank Hunter game I thought. Whoever was doing it never finished. It was a real shame because it was all over the magazines and online. It looked like it was close to being finished. I think IMagic was going to release it.

I remember all the games you mention. I even still have some of them. I liked Talonsoft's BTR but I really want a remake of Europe Ablaze.

The king of monster games was Campaign for North Africa. I remember reading that you needed to calculate water amounts to make sure the Italians had enough for pasta( I'm not joking). I don't think they ever found anyone who actually finished a game.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 1:25:48 AM

Halsey
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Oh, there are a few of us who have completed a game of CNA.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 2:03:04 AM

ravinhood
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quote:

There never was a Road to moscow that ever came out that I knew of.

Welp now you've heard of it and I've listed it and the designer and his team and even the copyright date. I still have the manual and the game on 5-1/4 floppy for C=64. ;)
I even did a google for you http://home.comcast.net/~evanbrooks/20tha4.htm#ROAD%20TO%20MOSCOW%20(Ba'rac)

quote:

ROAD TO MOSCOW
(C) Ba'rac Limited; Philip Gardocki and Bob Best; 1984; UNRATED
Int/Land/Op-Str
1

The Russian Front, World War II. Solitaire play only (the computer handles the Soviets) with both campaign (c. 12 hours of playing time) and year-long scenarios (c. 2-4 hours of playing time).

ROAD TO MOSCOW
(C) Game Designers' Workshop; Phil Gardocki and Greg Mojher; 1987; UNRATED
Adv/Land/Op-Str
1-2

I probably have the largest library of computer wargames of anyone from 1982 to present day. ;) And that's not even having all of Matrixgames of today. lol I'll eventually get them when the timing is right. When I die someone can do some documentary on me and all the wargames and computers I still have. ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 7/12/2007 2:08:30 AM >

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 3:56:07 AM

sullafelix
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The one I was talking about was the one right underneath it from 1998 and it was cancelled. Thats the one that people talk about on the forum. I don't think many people have heard of the 1984 game. I know I never did and I was a C64 wargaming nut at that time. The only other Road to Moscow I've heard about was a magazine game about Charles the Xll and Poltava. Or maybe it was On to Moscow not sure now.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 4:55:32 AM

FrankHunter
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sulla05,

quote:

There never was a Road to moscow that ever came out that I knew of. It was a Frank Hunter game I thought.

I forget who was doing that one but it definitely wasn't me.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 9:42:34 AM

Phatguy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

There never was a Road to moscow that ever came out that I knew of. It was a Frank Hunter game I thought. Whoever was doing it never finished. It was a real shame because it was all over the magazines and online. It looked like it was close to being finished. I think IMagic was going to release it.

I remember all the games you mention. I even still have some of them. I liked Talonsoft's BTR but I really want a remake of Europe Ablaze.

The king of monster games was Campaign for North Africa. I remember reading that you needed to calculate water amounts to make sure the Italians had enough for pasta( I'm not joking). I don't think they ever found anyone who actually finished a game.

Oh,theres a few out there......

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 12:47:50 PM

stevel40831
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Here's a link to the grandfather of computer Eastern Front games:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(computer_game)

I bought my first computer in early 1982 after seeing a friend playing this... it ran on the Atari 800 with 8K of ram, massive floppy drive and a joystick to control movement plots. Ahhh, the good 'ole days!

Steve

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 12:48:13 PM

ravinhood
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I put 72 hours into Civilization one time. I think that's the longest I ever played a single game straight thru to the end. Now some would say that is a long time, but, when I do play a game I'm into the detail. Most every turn I'm checking each of my cities out to see if I need to make adjustments for the next turn. Saving every resource I can and getting every bit of use out of my food production. Civilization is one of the few and exception to my rules type of game where if it takes over 4-8 hours of play I usually am not going to play it for very long. Games that you can sit and go like the Total War series are completely different. You can pick up that game from 6 months ago, because there's not that much to remember. All you have to do is find your two stacks (one full melee and one full cavalry) and continue from where you left off destroying the weak ai especially in RTW.

But, games like say TOAW....try picking up on a game you played 6 months ago and saved it. It's just not that simple like a Civilization or a Total War game. Try it with your Forge of Freedoms and American Civil Wars. And most especially try it with WITP! lol Though the computer has brought the wonderful ease of saving a game, time is still the element that drives the gameplay. If you can't play a game from beginning to end within the same period of time you began you'll usually forget what you were doing, what was your focus etc etc and end up just starting another one you probably won't finish either. ;) I've read several posts over at the Crusader Kings Paradox forums of players who've never seen the Mongol Invasion. lol Telling me they never complete a game, they just play for awhile, save it and when they come back they have forgotten what they were doing or just start over anyways.

Ask yourself sometimes of all the games you own and play...How many have you actually Completed? ;)

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/12/2007 6:39:20 PM

anarchyintheuk
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OCDs can make for a good gamer.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/16/2007 12:16:32 AM

Ketza
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I had actually spoke on the phone with the guy developing Road to Moscow in the early nineties. He mentioned something about the huge budget he was dealing with and the game would be out a year from when I spoke to him. I tried to convince him to send me a copy to playtest but he insisted it was way to buggy. The game had a unique waypoint and phase line system of combat that was essentially real time from what I recall him talking about.

Too bad it didnt work out.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/16/2007 12:26:24 AM

sullafelix
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Yes you were supposed to give the formations "real" military orders and then watch what unfolded. Much like COTA etc.. I even saw a preview of it in some mag. It would have been an excellent game way ahead of its time.

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/16/2007 12:51:02 PM

ravinhood
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There was a game like that during the late 80's/early 90's that did exactly that. It's title is "Waterloo" you gave typed command orders to your commanders and even the times when they would begin carrying them out. Even if they did not get any new orders the AI would still react to the situation which was pretty good also. It was in real time as well and of course there was always the chance your messenger would get shot during the battle. You would use named placements on the map like Hougomount and Le Hey Saint farm and type things like Ney attack Hougomount or Le Hey Saint at 1130am or Ney attack <named leaders units> now. It was quite fun, although the graphics were even for me piss poor. They were colored blocks at best, no 3d or isometric animated colorful units you see today for sure. Definitely one of those command decision type games in the "pauseable continous time" sort of atmosphere. I played it on my Amiga 500. The British AI wasn't very bright and I could beat it handily from the very first game onward. Even with the Prussians coming onboard in late afternoon. I don't recall if one could play the British AI or not. It's been sooooooo long since I played that one. But, I must admit, being able to TYPE out the commands made it seem more realistic and being there than any other game I've played. It is a game that can cause much frustrations when you don't see your commands being carried out because your messenger got killed. ;) It also came with preprogrammed orders for the entire battle and you could just sit there and watch it like a movie. Which is what most of these command decision type games turn into is movie watching and not much handson play.

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 7/16/2007 12:52:38 PM >

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RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/18/2007 4:25:32 PM

Phatguy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I had actually spoke on the phone with the guy developing Road to Moscow in the early nineties. He mentioned something about the huge budget he was dealing with and the game would be out a year from when I spoke to him. I tried to convince him to send me a copy to playtest but he insisted it was way to buggy. The game had a unique waypoint and phase line system of combat that was essentially real time from what I recall him talking about.

Too bad it didnt work out.

Yeah, I did that too, but I think I begged to much to be a playtester.I think that game would have been amazing. Would give up my arm to play a buggy version even now.

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 29

RE: Strategic Eastern front games - 7/18/2007 4:46:50 PM

sterckxe
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05
Yes you were supposed to give the formations "real" military orders and then watch what unfolded. Much like COTA etc.. I even saw a preview of it in some mag. It would have been an excellent game way ahead of its time.

I wrote a small review of the Road to Moscow beta some 3 years ago - here's a copy & paste

- -

Hi,

As some of you might know I was recently offered the beta 1.10 version of
this Loch Ness monster of wargaming. I promised a review so here goes :

Game Concept :

Detailed geographical map of Europe where units of Brigade/Div/Army level
move and fight - all in real-time. You, as supreme commander literally
"draw" up the battle plan(s) which get executed by your AI commanders
whom you can shuffle around. A very detailed OOB + TOE and a nice choice
of scenario's complete the package.

Concept execution and detail :

The most interesting concept is the drawing board - you literally select
a portion of the battle field - which gets copied to the drawing screen
where you "draw" up a battle plan. You can set primary and secondary
objectives and tell your units where to move to. You then approve the
"plan" which gets executed by the AI.

This all sounds pretty nifty - though we could do without the separate
drawing board - the problem is : it doesn't work.

The reason it doesn't is because you can draw up a plan that looks good
on paper only to have it botched up by the incompetent own unit AI -
sounds like real life (tm) you'd think - not really - especially playing
as the Germans you'd expect the battlefield commanders to be smarter than
the guy sitting in Berlin but they aren't and that's where frustration
sets in because you lack the means to control the action.

Example : let's suppose you spot a Russian infantry army with their left
flank secured by mountains/rough and a refused - but open - right flank.
Let's say you have a German inf div, a mountain div and a panzer div at
your disposal - what plan do you come up with ? I want the inf div to
move up, make contact, make probing attacks but nothing serious and act
as a screen for the panzer division to swing behind and move behind the
Ruskies right flank while the mountain div infiltrates their supposedly
secure left flank. A minimum amount of coordination should ensure succes
in rounding up the Russians. Let's say you draw up this fail-safe plan in
RtM, you sit back smugly and watch it all go terribly wrong as soon as
you turn things over to the AI. The inf div will slam hard into the
prepared Russian positions and take numerous casualties, the mountain
unit will get lost in the mountains and the panzer division will arive in
the Russians rear and decide to await further orders amidst the Russian
rear echelon units.

So where did it go wrong ?

Well, for one thing this game oozes ambition - the entire Russian front -
in realtime - in 1997-1999 on pentium 2/300 machines with 1 MB graphic
cards .. Technically it couldn't have worked on the machines available
back then - my 2.8 gig / GeForce 4 machine has barely enough horsepower
to run it. No wonder it was reported to run in sub-realtime with every 5
minutes of game time taking 15 minutes of computer time - this would mean
a 12 year continuous runtime for the entire campaign. Madness.

The concept of "drawing" up a masterplan sounds good on paper - but the
own unit AI is so incompetent in carrying out your plan that this game
really needs more player control over the battlefield - there isn't,
resulting in player frustration. You feel like the guy sitting in his
Berlin bunker in 1945 moving around armies and nothing happens the way he
plans it.

The reason it survived so long as a "game in progress" - and a financial
sink-hole - is that if you look at a screenshot and read the manual /
concept docs the shear ambition takes your breath away. On paper it's the
game I want to play. It's a game practically all grognards would want to
play so it got financed way too long because it's so beautiful in concept
people wanted it to work despite the technical and conceptual hurdles.

Could it have worked ?

Well, if they had limited the game to let's say a "Kanev Bridge", added
more own-unit controll and had put a lot more effort in the AI they could
have ended up with an "Airborne Assault". And this is really the point I
wanted to make : the RtM game concept is - apart from the over-ambitious
scope - virtually identical to the Airborne Assault series games. RtM is
dead and buried, but if you really want to see that inf div make a
probing attack to fix the Russians in place, the mountain div sneaking up
on them while the Panzer div swings into their rear you'll have to wait
till the guys at Panther Games turn east.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to sullafelix)

Post #: 30