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Spitfires over Warsaw ..

 
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Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/18/2007 6:10:42 AM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		I cant help but notice the Polish OOB has some really nice ftr's // and bombers .. apparently ..
IDG
Post #: 1
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/18/2007 4:31:04 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		The Poles had about 600 modern aircraft and were very well trained.  They were outnumbered, and they do get killed pretty fast in CEAW.  The icon would ideally be a PZL P.11 but is instead a hurricane.

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 2
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/18/2007 5:27:19 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Ahhh

what mean you by Modern ?

the PZL P.11 was designed in 1929, and the PZL P.24 was basicly a fancy upgraded 11, that work was started on in 33 (and was mainly intended for export sales)

the Poles put up a good fight, with what they had, but were totally outclassed in the air and were soon a non factor in the battle (by most standards, they did more then should of been expected of them, but still, not enough to help)

there are a number of good books about the escape of the Polish Pilots (and troops) and there later combat, fighting with the French and English, and finally there betrail by the Allies when the war ended




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Post #: 3
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/18/2007 8:58:58 PM   
Copper


Posts: 82
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		The polish airforce modern!?

First of all Poland had 420 planes in the entire country... none of which were any match at all for the Germans. However, the Poles had some of the best trained pilots in the world at the time.

To say the polish airforce was modern is just way off mark.

Honestly, the Polish Fighter Squadron should be moved closer to the border so that the Germans can destroy some of them on the ground in the first turn...if we wanted to be real accurate.


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Post #: 4
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/18/2007 9:24:01 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Well ... depends on who you read but .... I remember that when Czech was annexed by the Germans .. The Poles were concerned because they had bought armor and planes from Czech .. and they were worried about delivery of these units .. I believe that they were never delivered to the Poles ...

Besides the fact that the Polish Bombers were more modern than the Ftr's ... And they were not in suffecient numbers to even remotely do the damage they are capable of in CEaW .. The Luftwaffe is way understrength in 1939 .. comparitively speaking ....
This was not the case ....
As the Allies have Naval and Air superiority in the initial stages of this game the Germans are hugely impared in all but a land campaign .. and with the proper use of these allied advantages ... I believe you will never see a german player beat an even remotely capable human adversary ... against an AI is quite a differnet story and you can't base any conclusions on this ..
IDG

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Post #: 5
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/18/2007 9:36:47 PM   
firepowerjohan


Posts: 378
Joined: 4/7/2007
Status: offline 		Are you really saying Allies can stop Germany from taking France in 1940 because I am always ran over when I try to defend being the Allies. As soon as Poland fall, UK and France only have 2 fighters while Germany with their starting Production points and higher War Effort % can buy a third fighter or maybe instead a Commander.

German fighter has 7% more effectiveness than UK and 13% more than France due to higher organisation tech. If Germany buy manstein they will have 16% extra so 23% vs Uk and 29% vs France.

German fighters should be around 80% effectievness while the allied ones at around 50-60%. I hope there are alternative ways to play the game so that early Allied offensive should be a strategy also. Until proven bullet proof and given the game the benefit of the doubt I cannot conclude this to be any game breaker

If you are playing someone not as good as you or the AI then you can possibly win with it but with 2 equally skilled players I am not sure, would like to hear some test results or AAR though. For every strategy there is a counter, so that is why you get better answers to what-ifs against human opponents.

< Message edited by firepowerjohan -- 7/18/2007 9:59:04 PM >

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Johan Persson - Firepower Entertainment
Lead developer of:
World Empires Live http://www.worldempireslive.com/
CEAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
CNAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=52



(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 6
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/18/2007 10:01:15 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Pretty hard to find a player as experienced .. good is a realtive word in this sense ... A broad and firm spectrum of strategy and gaming is essential to any offensive Axis player ..
You must count in the CV's ... they do huge damage in conjunction with land based air and especially the Fr Arm .. UK Mot ..
I honestly think that the Allies can do huge damage to the Italians in this game .. before they are even in the war ...
I have been toying with the idea of sending the UK WDF Arm from the Med to France ..
I have a buddy who would literally just demolish the Germans at every turn of the game if given the chance .. But then how much fun would that be ..
He is an excellent Allied player ... If you can counter him.. he still has reserves .. and they will keep draining Axis until there is nothing left ..
IDG

(in reply to firepowerjohan)
Post #: 7
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/18/2007 10:11:19 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		So have we gone from the Allies can't win to the Allies can't lose?

The Polish air force destroyed on the ground is a myth.  The modern quote I just grabbed from Wicki and it is a stretch sure but hell the damn thing fights once, and after that you can often attack it on land.  It hardly does anything. 

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 8
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/19/2007 1:22:34 AM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Copper

The polish airforce modern!?

First of all Poland had 420 planes in the entire country... none of which were any match at all for the Germans. However, the Poles had some of the best trained pilots in the world at the time.

To say the polish airforce was modern is just way off mark.

Honestly, the Polish Fighter Squadron should be moved closer to the border so that the Germans can destroy some of them on the ground in the first turn...if we wanted to be real accurate.



read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Air_Force_order_of_battle_in_1939

(in reply to Copper)
Post #: 9
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/19/2007 2:48:07 AM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Polish Air should not even begin to assault my Me 262's ...
LOL
IDG

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Post #: 10
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/19/2007 2:55:50 AM   
Copper


Posts: 82
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		that link doesnt say anything...

I never said the polish airforce didnt win any battles, I just said they did not fly modern planes...and then said they had some of the most well trained pilots in the world.

lets see they downed 127 german planes out of 1,000+

and on their own side lost double if not triple that number.

Their bombers on the other hand werent half bad.

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 11
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 7/19/2007 7:25:14 AM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Copper

that link doesnt say anything...

I never said the polish airforce didnt win any battles, I just said they did not fly modern planes...and then said they had some of the most well trained pilots in the world.

lets see they downed 127 german planes out of 1,000+

and on their own side lost double if not triple that number.

Their bombers on the other hand werent half bad.



Sorry bout the link . I meant either of these two:

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/poland/polaf2.htm
http://ww2-aviation.net/polavhist/myths.html

You mentioned accuracy and putting Pol ftr nearer the border. According to all sources(exc German propaganda) Polish airforce was disperced and therefore managed to mostly survive the initial onslaught.



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Post #: 12
RE: Spitfires over Warsaw .. - 10/11/2007 6:09:10 AM   
Irish Guards


Posts: 143
Joined: 8/13/2004
Status: offline 		b

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 13
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