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RE: Super Dreadnought CV's ..

 
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RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/25/2007 7:05:51 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Actually I have tried your approach vereses the AI it works okay but it is not necessarily the best approach. The big advantage you have verses the AI is there is no med or Africa campaign going on so it makes it really difficult to objectively determine if it works.

Sure it may work verses the dead AI where every Italian unit as well as German can attack Russia but do you think that policy would apply if the map had any action south of France.

This is why the test needs to be verses a human to see its viability overall.

Give this game a southern front it will be one of the best on the market if not the best.






Perhaps from your perspective for human vs human play. from the perspective of human vs AI....it will actually need an AI for that.

I have no interest in h vs h. If the game can't provide a challenging AI it will only gather dust at my house. Frankly, at this point, I am sorry I wasted 70 bucks on it.

ps...I don't send the Italians to Russia...I send them to Teheran via Mosul. The Germas are quite capable of reaching Perm against the pitiful AI without any Italian assistance.

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 91
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/25/2007 7:18:49 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		did you play at maximum ai advantage, or even moderate?  Any decent player needs to at least be at moderate.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 92
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/25/2007 8:18:37 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vypuero

did you play at maximum ai advantage, or even moderate?  Any decent player needs to at least be at moderate.


Yes, after learning that "normal" is actually "introductory" I played every game on "moderate" allied advantage. The severe lack of resources Germany is expected to utilize on "maximum" Allied advantage left a distinct sour taste in my mouth so I refused to play at that setting. I absolutely detest the mechanisms of limiting friendly resources or giving the enemy hordes (as is the case with HOI2) as a means of increasing difficulty. Increases in "difficulty" should come from the AI performing better at higher difficulty settings, NOT from such silly mechanisms. Games lose their "flavor" and appeal if I am expected to recreate WW2 without sufficient resources to even be able to build what the Germans had historically or face thousands upon thousands of enemy divisions in Russia (again as is the case with HOI2). The administrative, managerial challenges of "making do with less" does nothing to make the AI perform any better and utilizing such mechanisms to create a hollow facade of greater difficulty is, in my estimation, a fraudulant approach.

Greater difficulty, to me, means the AI is gonna kick my butt, not that I have to simply find a way to kick the AI's butt with less resources.

(in reply to Vypuero)
Post #: 93
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/25/2007 11:39:26 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		Never had an AI that could really do that.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 94
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 3:07:26 AM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Hans looks like no game will ever be able to satisfy you. You expect the game to be better then humans. No game has an AI that is better then humans. Cant exist since humans are flawed and they made the game.

This AI is doing a really good job. Does it need to adjust things to be competive yes. But I do not care if the game cheats as long as it gives me a fun and challenging game.

Once the Southern Front becomes active I doubt any AI can compete with this one. But I will always hope.

< Message edited by targul -- 7/26/2007 3:13:39 AM >

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 95
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 3:25:41 AM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Against a human player ... Axis builds no subs or naval ..
OK ... So I guess that means you are gonna build air or no .... Well I guess it doesn't matter ..
So absolutely no support for any naval invasions .. as in Norway .. And denmark might not be a possibility .. if the Axis leaves it to late ...
I guess ... support france and see how long they can hold .. Hold the Vichy territory w UK units when swine france falls ... And the 2 ports at least .. Make the Axis come and get them .. And UK holds Med .. Axis will never get to Middle East with just the Italians ..
Sounds nice .. but I don't think the Axis will ever win by totally avoiding and strategic area ... They gain so much by at least keeping the UK fleet a wee bit busy ..
And when Russia starts getting 200 and 300 point convoys ... Oh Dear ..
IDG

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 96
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 4:02:24 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

Nope. I have nothing to "prove" to anyone.


right - comes in with an arrogant attitude and has a convenient excuse to not back up the big words with big play......

quote:

so no TCIP gamnes for this kid right now.


I didn't ask for TCP/IP - I asked you to send a turn to my e-mail - you could do them at home and post them from work

quote:

Frankly, I've stopped wasting my time on the game


good - I hope we can look forward to not having to pass over any more of your rubbish in otherwise interesting threads then.

quote:

. Since you rated the game as the same dismal 4 as I did in the "Rate the Game" thread, I am surprised you want to continue to invest more time in it.


And this just confirms that you don't bother to read - I rate it a 4 because I expected it to be better than SC2, it having the opportunity to learn from that game.  I didn't say anything about it being a bad game.

IMO it is just as good as SC2, which I also play - I'm disappointed because it is not BETTER.

So you're a bit of hot air all-round really.



< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 7/26/2007 4:04:00 AM >

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 97
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 1:16:06 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

quote:

Nope. I have nothing to "prove" to anyone.


right - comes in with an arrogant attitude and has a convenient excuse to not back up the big words with big play......

quote:

so no TCIP gamnes for this kid right now.


I didn't ask for TCP/IP - I asked you to send a turn to my e-mail - you could do them at home and post them from work

quote:

Frankly, I've stopped wasting my time on the game


good - I hope we can look forward to not having to pass over any more of your rubbish in otherwise interesting threads then.

quote:

. Since you rated the game as the same dismal 4 as I did in the "Rate the Game" thread, I am surprised you want to continue to invest more time in it.


And this just confirms that you don't bother to read - I rate it a 4 because I expected it to be better than SC2, it having the opportunity to learn from that game.  I didn't say anything about it being a bad game.

IMO it is just as good as SC2, which I also play - I'm disappointed because it is not BETTER.

So you're a bit of hot air all-round really.




Personal attacks are a violation of the terms of service.

It's a shame you feel compelled to resort to such childish behaviour.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 98
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 1:20:53 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Hans looks like no game will ever be able to satisfy you. You expect the game to be better then humans. No game has an AI that is better then humans. Cant exist since humans are flawed and they made the game.

This AI is doing a really good job. Does it need to adjust things to be competive yes. But I do not care if the game cheats as long as it gives me a fun and challenging game.

Once the Southern Front becomes active I doubt any AI can compete with this one. But I will always hope.



Actually, while not perfect, the AI in HTTR/COTA/BFTB is as good as it gets and keeps me coming back for game after game after game. Try giving my AAR preview of the upcoiming BFTB game on it's forum here on this site for some insights into how effective that AI can be.

The designers of that game system actually respond positively to constructive critism instead of coming up with lame excuses to attempt to explain away the AI's shortcomings. That's probably why I agreed to become a beta tester for them.

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 99
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 1:23:37 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishDragoonGuards

Against a human player ... Axis builds no subs or naval ..
OK ... So I guess that means you are gonna build air or no .... Well I guess it doesn't matter ..
So absolutely no support for any naval invasions .. as in Norway .. And denmark might not be a possibility .. if the Axis leaves it to late ...
I guess ... support france and see how long they can hold .. Hold the Vichy territory w UK units when swine france falls ... And the 2 ports at least .. Make the Axis come and get them .. And UK holds Med .. Axis will never get to Middle East with just the Italians ..
Sounds nice .. but I don't think the Axis will ever win by totally avoiding and strategic area ... They gain so much by at least keeping the UK fleet a wee bit busy ..
And when Russia starts getting 200 and 300 point convoys ... Oh Dear ..
IDG



I never siad anything about playing agaisnt a human opponent. My critisms are in regard to the AI. Germany is quite capable of taking both Denmark and Norway with the at start navy. Th UK has to actually FIGHT for the Med to "hold" it. In every game so far I have conquered the middle east all the way to Teheran without so much as a decent fight from the Brits.

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 100
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 4:27:58 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		Axis AI sure does build subs.  They are very annoying too.  They attack convoys when I am somewhere else.  They also tend to show up on the french coast when I am trying to invade.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 101
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 6:04:07 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Oh I apologize profusely .. I assumed that since you were an Elite Guard that meant you were an experienced player and as such would want some competition ..
An AI .. that can redevelop a strategy based on the actions and reactions of a competent human opponent .. Hmmm ...
So with FoW on ... against an AI .. How do you expect the AI to target any weaknesses ..
It can only see .. what is on board ..
Maybe play with FoW off .. Then It can see what to do ..
Based on the lack of your defenses or denial of certain strategic planning ..
IDG

(in reply to Vypuero)
Post #: 102
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 6:35:45 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishDragoonGuards

Oh I apologize profusely .. I assumed that since you were an Elite Guard that meant you were an experienced player and as such would want some competition ..
An AI .. that can redevelop a strategy based on the actions and reactions of a competent human opponent .. Hmmm ...
So with FoW on ... against an AI .. How do you expect the AI to target any weaknesses ..
It can only see .. what is on board ..
Maybe play with FoW off .. Then It can see what to do ..
Based on the lack of your defenses or denial of certain strategic planning ..
IDG


I'm an "Elite Guard" because of the number of posts I have made on this site. Rather comical attempt at an insult if I do say so myself.

However, your assumption that I am an experienced "player" is correct. I played my first wargame, Avalon Hill's Kreigspiel, in 1973. My name is published in the design credits of one of the classic board wargames of all time, Avalon Hill's Advanced Third Reich. I've been around the block a few times when it comes to strategic games of WWII.

I curently serve as a beta tester for Panther Games, the publisher of Highway to the Reich and Conquest of the Aegean.

I get plenty of competition from my wargame buddies in our Thursday night head to head boardgaming. For computer games I prefer the time convenience of playing against the computer.

Your and SMKs attempts to potray me as an incompetent who's viewpoint should be dismissed becasue I won't take the bait of childish taunts is actually quite entertaining.

Firepowerjohan seems to be taking my criticisms more seriously. Perhaps he is better at recognizing their validity?

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 103
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 7:37:01 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		LMAO ... Oh Dear ..
Oh and I remember now about the posts thing now .. Yep I wanna be a hero to ..
Those are some nice little games you have played ..
What about WiF .. EiA .. WiE .. TSS .. BGG .. WV .. Do you mean HTTR when SPI published it as a boardgame ..
And FPJ .. I played him a few times in this game so far .. He posted at least 1 of the his crushing defeats to the Irish .. Tcp/Ip that is ...
IDG

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 104
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 7:58:33 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		Just wish the IDG would write as well as he plays

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 105
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 8:01:10 PM   
Chris Bisson


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vypuero

Just wish the IDG would write as well as he plays


hehehe good shot! wow

(in reply to Vypuero)
Post #: 106
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 8:06:32 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		LMAO .. Ire is sorry Vp ...
As I have said before .. I don't wanna make to much sense .. give away my strategy and tactics for all my pointy units ..
The Irish will attempt to write better .. I know its when they made me take swine french in school ... Nay makes sense .. Nay even pass english .. But I still smrt ..
IDG

(in reply to Vypuero)
Post #: 107
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 8:17:15 PM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Well, Hans my children are older then your starting date to play wargames in 1973. My oldest was already playing wargames by then with me. So being new to the games doesnt make you an inferior or superior player.

I was playing wargames I made on paper with buttons prior to Avalon Hill. Bought all there games from Gettysburgs on. First one I like was Tactics II didnt like Gettysburg. Was a high rated Adhik forever.

Third Reich was there best work. Played it forever. Was #3 rated by Adhik in Third Reich.

SC2 has an Advanced Third Reich Mod that I play regularly. I still own 3 new copies of Advanced Third Reich in shrink and 2 open and used copies. But I also own 3 copies of War in Europe only 1 is unpunched.

I remember when wargames where still popular. I used to travel all over to attend the cnoferences and play whatever wargames I could find.

I will probably be playing my last day.

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 108
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 8:40:02 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishDragoonGuards

LMAO ... Oh Dear ..
Oh and I remember now about the posts thing now .. Yep I wanna be a hero to ..
Those are some nice little games you have played ..
What about WiF .. EiA .. WiE .. TSS .. BGG .. WV .. Do you mean HTTR when SPI published it as a boardgame ..
And FPJ .. I played him a few times in this game so far .. He posted at least 1 of the his crushing defeats to the Irish .. Tcp/Ip that is ...
IDG


I'm not sure I recognize all those acronyms. There are actually very few strategic board games published during the heyday of boardgames in the late 1970s through the early 1990s that I have not played, games like ETO/PTO and the "advanced" versions fo them, SPIs WWII, Krieg and Totaler Krieg, War in Europe (WiE?), World in Flames (WiF?). I have played many, many games of non-strategic scale as well. I wore out two countermixes of AH's venerable Russian Campaign and then wore out a counter mix of their follow on game Russian Front. I own almost every Europa game and have played almost every mega-board game ever published with the notable exceptions of SPI's Campaign for North Africa and their company level Market Garden game. I own several hundred board wargames as well as several hundred computer wargames. I build WWII German vechicle models and devour every last book on WWII I can get my hands on. I am the definition of a Grognard. I do have some small experience behind my observations and perceptions.

The HTTR game I referred to is the computer game by Panther games sold right here by Matrix. I absolutely fell in love with the game system which falls somewhere between tactical and operational sort of a grand tactical/sub-operational. For a taste of that system see my AAR of the Race for the Meuse sceanrio I beta tested for the upcoming release of the next game in that series, Battles from the Bulge. BFTB has it's own forum on this site. The Airborne Assault game system has absolutely the best AI of any computer game I have ever played, hands down!

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 109
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 8:52:11 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Well, Hans my children are older then your starting date to play wargames in 1973. My oldest was already playing wargames by then with me. So being new to the games doesnt make you an inferior or superior player.

I was playing wargames I made on paper with buttons prior to Avalon Hill. Bought all there games from Gettysburgs on. First one I like was Tactics II didnt like Gettysburg. Was a high rated Adhik forever.

Third Reich was there best work. Played it forever. Was #3 rated by Adhik in Third Reich.

SC2 has an Advanced Third Reich Mod that I play regularly. I still own 3 new copies of Advanced Third Reich in shrink and 2 open and used copies. But I also own 3 copies of War in Europe only 1 is unpunched.

I remember when wargames where still popular. I used to travel all over to attend the cnoferences and play whatever wargames I could find.

I will probably be playing my last day.



Nice to encounter another old Grognard lurking around these boards. Look for the name Merrill Wright under playtesters in the design credits of ATR. Me, Eugene Harvey (playtester) and Jim Moir (designer) constituted the Tampa Bay area playtest cell for ATR. We playtested that for 2.5 years. After it was finally released we, along with most of the other designers and playtesters attended AvalonCon in Baltimore that year for a tournament. Jim and I played against Bruce Harper (the lead designer) and Conrad Struckman (another designer who is a real life rocket scientist).

I got a kick out of your reference to "being new to the games" since your wargaming experience predates mine. I have not once claimed to be a superior player, just a very traveled one. The criticisms I have brought to the table have been narrowly focused at the AI as I rely on computer games soley for solo play and that is where they need to have a value to be worth my time and money. When I want head to head I also want the socialization that comes with it so I still play board games one night a week.

The only reason I have taken the time to outline some of my experience is so that a few naysayers who would rather not take me seriously might reassess their positions, none of it has been meant as any kind of a boast or chest thumping. I consider myself a decent, if not competent, wargamer who has been on the receiving end of as many drunbbings as decisive victories. I find the fun in the fight, more than just in the victory, and that is a big reason why I want the AI in this game to put up a better fight.

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 110
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 9:07:43 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		I play risk, kingmaker .. you know those kind of games ..
And yes its SPI Highway to the Reich ..
Wellingtons Victory .. Terrible Swift Sword .. Battleground Gettysburg ..
And of course World in Flames .. Empire in Arms .. War in Europe ... Irish in Flames .. Nurses in Flames ..
You know the easy games ... not to complex .. Ire is nay very smrt ..
What a riot ..
IDG

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 111
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 9:24:31 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishDragoonGuards

I play risk, kingmaker .. you know those kind of games ..
And yes its SPI Highway to the Reich ..
Wellingtons Victory .. Terrible Swift Sword .. Battleground Gettysburg ..
And of course World in Flames .. Empire in Arms .. War in Europe ... Irish in Flames .. Nurses in Flames ..
You know the easy games ... not to complex .. Ire is nay very smrt ..
What a riot ..
IDG



I sense a rope-a-dope here. Methinks you like to play the fool to disarm your adversaries sir .

And yes, while I get into the minutia of very detailed simulations I also enjoy a good "beer & pretzels" game now and then...the main reason why I gave this one a try.

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 112
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/26/2007 9:43:56 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		The Irish will never disarm ... I need my pointy units to play these wee games ..
IDG

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 113
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/27/2007 12:53:49 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Personal attacks are a violation of the terms of service.


I figured you'd whine about that - but you;re wrong yet again...

quote:

User Chat Rooms & Forums:MG may, but is not obligated to, monitor or review any areas on the Site where users transmit or post Communications or communicate solely with each other, including but not limited to chat rooms, forums, bulletin boards, discussion forums, message boards, e-mail forums, specialty forums or other forums, and the content of any such Communications. MG, however, will have no liability related to the content of any such Communications, whether or not arising under the laws of copyright, libel, privacy, obscenity, or otherwise.


quote:

It's a shame you feel compelled to resort to such childish behaviour.



It's a shame you deserve it.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 114
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/27/2007 3:27:17 AM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Attack ... DoW .. Use the pointy units ..
IDG

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 115
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/27/2007 1:20:15 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Personal attacks are a violation of the terms of service.


I figured you'd whine about that - but you;re wrong yet again...

quote:

User Chat Rooms & Forums:MG may, but is not obligated to, monitor or review any areas on the Site where users transmit or post Communications or communicate solely with each other, including but not limited to chat rooms, forums, bulletin boards, discussion forums, message boards, e-mail forums, specialty forums or other forums, and the content of any such Communications. MG, however, will have no liability related to the content of any such Communications, whether or not arising under the laws of copyright, libel, privacy, obscenity, or otherwise.


quote:

It's a shame you feel compelled to resort to such childish behaviour.



It's a shame you deserve it.




Your quote is a non sequitur.

You're making a fool of yourself in a public forum....you might want to step back and engage some grey matter in reconsideration of your present course.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 116
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/27/2007 2:35:25 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Guys we will be looking at the AI and ways to improve it, so can we leave this for now as I don't think it's very constructive. The AI was not the focus of the first path - we were adressing multiplayer issues & any other serious problems people were having. Changing the AI requires lots of testing time and we did not want to hold up the initial patch to try and upgrade the AI until we had more feedback on the issues and enough time to test any fixes properly.

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 117
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/27/2007 3:05:59 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Guys we will be looking at the AI and ways to improve it, so can we leave this for now as I don't think it's very constructive. The AI was not the focus of the first path - we were adressing multiplayer issues & any other serious problems people were having. Changing the AI requires lots of testing time and we did not want to hold up the initial patch to try and upgrade the AI until we had more feedback on the issues and enough time to test any fixes properly.



Thanks Iain.

I appreciate your response in addressing the concerns some of us have.

As disappointed as I am in the initially released product, it does have the potential to be developed into a really good, entertaining "beer & pretzels" wargame that will be a fun diversion from the more detailed subjects I allocate the bulk of my time to.

While a portion of this thread has degenerated into a pissing contest between me and SMK, at least IDG, Targul and I are still managing to have some civil discourse.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 118
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 7/27/2007 9:44:31 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Civil .. Did he just call the Irish civil ..
Well I guess I understand .. we have never played .. most people I play say I am an offensive player ..
Most people who know me say I am very offensive ..
IDG

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 119
RE: Super Dreadnought CV's .. - 8/1/2007 4:12:51 PM   
Vypuero


Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline 		Hey as an FYI in my mod the CV Units:
1)  Have lower air combat
2)  Have range 3 instead of 4
3)  Tech mods are updated
4)  Have higher Naval Attack instead

(in reply to IrishGuards)
Post #: 120
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