One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent, no looking opponent!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> After Action Reports >> One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent, no looking opponent!

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One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent, no... - 8/9/2007 7:10:35 AM

lojishen

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I've always enjoyed the WITP AAR's where only one side posted to a thread, and the opponeng agreed to stay away until after the game completed. That way, the player could not only post what is happening, but future thoughts, fears, and plans as well. My opponent has kindly agreed to such an AAR, so I'll start posting. We are currently around turn 12 so, I'll be posting some catch up first, trying to recapture what I was thinking at the time. Comments are very welcome.

Turn 1:

AGN:

Overall, the Germans had a good first turn, eliminated the bulk of the border forces. However, as a general rule, the penetrations were very broad, but not very deep. My hope in the first turn was to use what available forces I had to try to block off deeper penetration from the Germans in turn 2. In the AGN area, my primary concern were the Dvina crossings at Daugavpils and Plavinas. About the only forces I had availabe were the 11 Inf Corp, a few 11 army divisions, and elements of the 1 Mech Corp. I positioned them thusly:

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 7:29:01 AM

lojishen

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AGC, Turn 1:

[Note: Even though I'm playing as the Soviets, for the time being, a breakdown between AGN, AGC, and AGS makes sense for describing the action.]
AGC had very little to work with. Remnents of the 14 Mech, and a couple divisions of the 3rd army. The Third army pulled back some to protect the roads north of Minsk, while the remnants of the 14th Mech plus other forces moved East and South. The Germans hadn't penetrated far along the Northern edge of the Pripet marshes, so I thought getting next to the road there just might slow them down some.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 7:58:19 AM

lojishen

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AGC T1:

South of the Pripet Marshes, the Germans in some sense had their greatest triumphs. While, again, the penetrations weren't that deep, almost my entire border forces were wiped out, something I rarely accomplish as the German. Some forces were generally trapped, but as a general rule I worked to establish at least a minimal front from north to South of the Pripet Marshes.

General 1st Turn Notes:
In DnO, the first three turns see many German advanatage as they move forward. Particularly, they own many of the roads, giving them faster movement, and most rail hexes they capture are undamaged. Thus, my philosophy, is to try to put up at least a thin line of resistence across all roads during the first few turns, even if it means sacrificing important Mech formations. For example, I'm willing to move up the 22 Mk and the 5 Cav south of the Pripet marshes even though, that means, they are likely to be toast in future turns. Every hex I keep out of the Germans hands in the first three turns is a plus. In addition, Soviet reinforcements turn up just north of the Dvina and behind the Stalin Line on T3, more incentive to hold the Dvina and the southern Stalin line on T2.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 8:07:46 AM

lojishen

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AGN Turn 2:

Well, the Dvina crossings are safe, but for the most part, the border forces are gone. The 11 Corp is basically eliminated, and only a couple of 11 Army divisions bar the way to the Dvina crossings. Further North, virtually nothing sits between the Nazi invaders and Riga. On the Dvina, the 5th Airborne corp holds Riga, the 21 Mech moves to Daugavpils, while elements of the 27th army holds the crossings at Plavinas and Jekabpils. The bulk of the 27th army is withdrawing to Pskov. Overall, I'm pleased with the North. While all border forces are eliminated, the invaders will be held short of the Dvina at the end of T3 which will delay their drive onto Leningrad, giving added time to build up a line.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 8:20:06 AM

lojishen

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AGC, newly named the Western Front, T2:

In the Center, there is good news and bad news. The bad news is those formations nearest the German onslaught were either wiped out, surrounded or still frozen, with Wilno suffering two out of the three and basically falling to the Germans. The good news was that the 3 Army divisions did manage to contain the advance north of Minsk, and that the 17 Mk near the border was free to move and the 20 Mk near Minsk was also freed up. The two Mech corps spread out across the roads heading East, serving as road blocks as well as converting road hexes back to Soviet control. The sole purpose of the Western Front is two restrict the German gains for turns 1-3 and to hold Minks until at least T4 as the Soviets suffer penalties of Minsk falls eariler than that.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 8:31:14 AM

lojishen

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AGS, newly named Southern Front, T2:

I thought the 22 Mech at Lutsk would be in danger, but didn't expect to see them crushed on T2 like they were. Pretty much the whole formation was a write off, for somewhat limited gains. However, the 5th Cav Corp wasn't tied up, and the other front line border forces at least held the German hordes back some. That the 5h Cav Corp wasn't sacrificed was a real plus. Most Soviet units are internal support only, making shared defense somewhat difficult, and counter-attacks even more difficult. The 5th Cav Corp is on Force Support, meaning it can integrate with other Soviet armies providing extra defensive support, or extra offensive power with no penalties. I was loathe to riske the 5th Cav on T1 and happy to seem them able to retreat on T2. Again, after the disastrous first turn, I was somewhat pleased with T2 other than the collapse of the 22 Mech at Lutsk.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 8:47:06 AM

lojishen

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AGN, now named Northern Front, T3:

Ahh, turn 3!! No longer will the Germans convert rail hexes at will. Now they will have to painfully rebuild each one. Plus, by now, they have either extended beyond those roadds they own on the early turns, or I have converted them back to Soviet control with misc units. At this point, I have received the northern Dvina reinforcements as well as those behind the Stalin Line south of the Pripet Marshes. At this point, new orders are in force.

Orders for Northern Front: delay with what units you can, and prepare new defensive lines at Narva on the Baltic Sea and Pskov along the approaches to Leningrad.

The North received a number of SZN reserve divsions this turn. The first decision I facesd was what to do with them. They arrived at less than half strength, with low supply and readiness. However, at 60% their proficiency was pretty decent for Soviet units. I determined that the previous forces would continue the delaying action, and I would try to withdraw the SZN divisions to a place where the could rest and refit. As I'm writing this some turns later, I still think this was the right decision, but I should have used more rail movement to get them to the rear as rail increases on T3 and greatly increases on T4.

Anyway, the plan was to leave some blocking forces in place, but start withdrawing the bulk of the units north to man new defensive lines ...

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 9:00:51 AM

lojishen

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Western Front, T3:

The Western Front saw the destruction of the 11th Army,but the main north/south resistence line of Minsk was still intact. The 13 Army started with one division west of Minsk and one to the east. It was decided to commit these two divisions to the defense of Minsk. That left the decision as to where the main defensive line should be. By T3, Soviet rail capacity was sufficient to rail some 6 infantry divisions, and by T4 this would be up to somewhere around 22. Was this sufficient capacity to form a defensive line at the Orsha Gap / Dnepr River lines or not??!! As the German invaders were still west of Minsk by T3 it was decided to make the Orsha Gap / Dnepr River line the main line of resistence ...

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 9:16:57 AM

lojishen

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Southern Front, T3:

The South saw the almost complete destruction of Soviet front line forces. That was the downside. The plus side was that this was the end of T3. Going forward, the Germans would have to earn each hex and railway, and in the south, that is a lot of hexes and railways. At the end of T2, I had decided to make a fairly stiff fight for the Stalin line in this sector. However, on T3 I decided the almost complete destruction of frontier forces on T2 albeit on the existing line was a sufficient sacrifice. In other words, the frontier forces had done their job, though at great cost. After T1, German advances had done great damage, but moved slowly. As such, I was ok with abandoning the Stalin line to weak forces and withdrawing the rest to Kiev and the Dnepr. Given the poor performance of the 22 Mech last turn, I was surprised at the lack of penetration on that axis this turn. Perhaps, they were to interested in baggin a weakened 22 Mech rather than moving forward.

In hindsight, the plight of the 12 Army HQ is interesting. At the end of this turn, they are stuck on the front line with Axis units threatening both flanks. ...

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 9:27:40 AM

lojishen

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Northern Front, T4:

Fortunately, not much to report on this front for T4, July 2nd. German forces move up to the Dvina, and effect crossing in several points. However, no crossing is beyond 20 km. The only bad news is the western bank of Riga falls in a hurry ...

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 9:42:51 AM

lojishen

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Western Front, T4:

For whatever reason, T4 was ok for us. The large concentration of German forces seen on T3 headed directly for Minsk. While Lepel to the north and Slutsk to the south were threatened on T3, significant forces did not pushem them back. On the downside, Minsk was definitely toast next turn. On the plus side, mechanized elements covered the Berezina crossings, and a significant number of divisions showed up on the Orsha/Dnepr fronts. At this point, I feel pretty good about the decision to hold the Orsha Gap / Dnepr line. But, only time will tell ...

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 9:49:53 AM

lojishen

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Southern Front, T4:

Not much to say here. Look at the last picutre and notice that almost all of the forces in front of the Stalin line are now gone. Was it worth it? I think so. The German advance is still well short of the Stalin line, and it will be a slower advance to Kiev at this point, not to mention more effort to convert broken rail lines.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 9:52:19 AM

lojishen

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Southern Front, T2, post 2:

However, as the Germans advance on the Stalin line, the defenses of Kiev start to grow ...

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 4:05:26 PM

larryfulkerson

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Wonderful AAR dude, keep up the good work. One comment though....I'd really like to see the minimap of the advance in a movie form. Want me to make it for you? All I would need is the END_OF_TURN files. You can send 'em to larryfulkerson2002 (at ) yahoo (dot) com if you want to. I'll post the movie or just send it to you and you can post it if you want.

To bad we don't have any comments from the other side but I understand the need for operational security.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 7:04:43 PM

Veers

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Good AAR, lojishen. This, an AAR involving a player's thoughts on the future, is my favourite style of AAR, as well.

Since you guys both mentioned that you like this style off AAR, and Larry mentioned he also wanted cmments from the other side, you both maybe interested int he dual AAR that Silvain and I are making over at Gamesquad with the Italian Campaign. In one thread we both post our comments and in a second, which Silvain has assured me he will not look into, I post my plans for the future.

< Message edited by Veers -- 8/9/2007 7:06:08 PM >

_____________________________

To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/9/2007 7:05:25 PM

Veers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veers

Good AAR, lojishen. This, an AAR involving a player's thoughts on the future, is my favourite style of AAR, as well.

Since you guys both mentioned that you like this style off AAR, and Larry mentioned he also wanted cmments from the other side, you both maybe interested int he dual AAR that Silvain and I are making over at Gamesquad with the Italian Campaign. In one thread we both post our comments and in a second, which Silvain has assured me he will not look into, I post my plans for the future.

EDIT: Crap, this was supposed to be an edit of my above post...

_____________________________

To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 8:12:22 AM

lojishen

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Thanks for the feedback, always encouraging.

Veers,

Thanks for the link. I read all of your previous AAR with Silvain, and look forward to the new one.

Larry,

I'll send you the saved files for the minimap in a day or two, and eventually, I'd like to learn how you do it. Right now, I'm learning a new programming language at work, and as an old dog, my capacity for new tricks is used up for the time being.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 8:20:06 AM

lojishen

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Northern Front T5:

Not much to report here for Turn 5. The frontline forces are obliterated, and not it is simply a race for the surviving units to get back tot he main line of resistence before the Germans can catch them. Some weak blocking forces are placed at the main cross roads in a feeble attempt to slow down the Axis juggernaught.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 8:27:59 AM

lojishen

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Western Front T5:

Minsk falls, but other than that, no disasters on this front, and even Minsk was somewhat expected. No new armies added to the main line, yet. A couple were railed to the front, as were reinforcements for the other armies there. If you compare this picture with the last, you will notice that the Orsha Gap / Dnepr line has thickened a fair amount. The remnants of the two Mechanized corp were positioned along the Berezino to further slow down the advance. We'll see if it was worth it.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 8:39:57 AM

lojishen

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Southern Front T5:

The Germans approach the Stalin line on T5, but failt to make any penetrations. I'd left the line defended by only fortress troops and light troops, withdrawing the rest to Kiev. On T4, the 17 Corp and elements of 16 Mech Corp were reorganizing on the border with Rumania. I really feared these units would be lost down there because of it, with little to gain. The 12th army HQ, frozen on T3, retreated to the protection of the 17 Corp on T4. On T5, they were all free to move. They couldn't get far as the Germans were right next to the main bridge to the north. However, a 12 army bridging unit was able to get them across the Dnestr. The 12 army HQ couldn't get far, but the 17 and 16 Mech Corp set up defensive positions along the southern portion of the Stalin line. Not much will escape, but their ability to get north should slow down the Germans some. The 12 Army HQ has been in serious danger now for weeks, and I've taken a personal interest in evacuating the unit to safety. The current position is still very exposed, and I fear for the lives of this brave HQ unit.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 8:48:05 AM

lojishen

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As it is now T5, it is appropriate to start posting pictres of the Odessa Front. For the most part, I abandoned any position west of the Dnestr River, blowing what bridges I could, and withdrawing the buld of the troops. The JF (Odvo) front command chocked (i.e. went into reorganization) on T4, which cost me a fair amount of that commands valuable artillery. Other than that, the withdrawal went well. the 9th army HQ is only on loan for now, as it will be needed to man the main line of resistence along the Ingul River. Once the going gets hot, the 9th army will withdraw, taking as many divisions as it can with it. Front formations are as follows ...

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 1:11:47 PM

lojishen

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Northern Front T6:

The German forces advance up to the Soviet blocking forces, give them a good drubbing, but don't advance much farther. One of the reason I like the 'secret' type AAR's is you can give your opponent advice without feeling it will hurt you this game. In this case, I've noticed that my opponent focuses a bit to much on encircling and eliminating the front forces, and not enough energy on advancing beyond them. It is a subtle thing, but in the end it results in the lost of 40 or 50 km worth of advance each week or so, and this tends to add up. As of now, I try to keep units in front of him as their is a decent chance he will concentrate on destroying that 'ant' unit at the expense of driving forward. DnO is essentially a race against time. The Soviet combat power is growing faster than the Germans, both as a function of the game events (shock) and replacements. While the Germans have the edge, they need to maximize the amoun of their forces in contact with the enemy. Not that the placement of blocking forces is easy. To close and they are overwhelmed in the early combat rounds. To far, and they are sacrificed for little or no purpose. I still make lots of mistakes with blocking forces: sometimes placing them to close where they are overwhelmed in the first round, or too far where they are overwhelmed at the point of maximum enemy advance.

Anyway, the Germans close about a 1/3 or 1/2 of the distance to Pskov/Dno and I use the time to build up the forces there. Not pictured is a thin line of troops (Baltic defense forces) defending the Narva river.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 1:26:21 PM

lojishen

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Western Front Turn 6

The Western Front is similar to the Northern Front. The Germans move up to the blocking forces on the Berezina River, annihilate some of them, but don't move much farther. With the Soviet rail capacity at around 11,000 since T4, the Soviets have the capability ro raile some 22 divisions to the front each turn. While not always using all rail capacity, the Soviets use almost all of it each turn, at least on average. Each turn the Germans aren't pounding forward means they are looking at another 15+ divisions on the front lines to face. Not pictured here are strong forces east of Velikiyi Luke (22 Army), and the beginnings of the 30th, 29th, and 34th armies running from Vitebsk to east of Velikiye Luki. All told there is some 10 divisions in those three armies, preparing to prevent any outflanking of the line you'll see in the upcoming picture ...

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 1:39:04 PM

lojishen

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Southern Front T6:

The theme continues in the South. The Germans approach the Stalin Line in extraordinary strength, and will certainly crush it the following turn. However, as they were only 40 to 50 km shy of the Stalin Line the previous turn, holding the Germans at that line must be deemed at least a moral victory. However, it must be noted that the Germans advanced much farther in the northern area, some 60 or 70km. The movement of the 17 and 16 Mech corp from south of the Dnestr to the southern portion of the Stalin Line was a key part in this smal victory. More importantly, it gave the heroes of the 12 army HQ time to escape. Though dangerously exposed for days on end, finally the gallant sacrifice of the 17 and 16 Mech corp give the 12 army HQ some breathing room. They are not safe yet, but they are closer than they have ever been. In the top right of the picture, you can see the beginnings of the Kiev defense plan which I'll descibe in the near future.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 1:49:38 PM

lojishen

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Odessa Front T6:

Here there is little change. The Germans and Rumanians essentially move up to the Dnestr River. While there are small bridgheads over the Dnestr to the north of Odessa they mostly pose a danger to the withdrawing 17 and 16 Mech Corp, and the 12 HQ, most of which have already been given up for dead. The formation assignments is essentially the same.

As stated previously, the first phase of DnO is slowing down the Germans while picking the best line for the main line of resistence. If that main line is too far forward (or the delaying actions go poorly) then the line will be broken at a time when there are few reserves available. That could mean disaster for the Russians. Choose a line too close to the major obectives, and the Germans will have ample time to crush it, especially if the delaying actions go poorly. Personally, I think a main line at the Orsha Gap / Dnepr River is a a bold one. However, in this game, while I've sacrificed amost the entire border force, I think it may have bough me the time to form a stong defensive line farther forward than historically feasible. Because, historically, the Germans chose a line just west of Smolensk, and that cost them dearly.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 3:52:31 PM

Monkeys Brain

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Great AAR lojishen! Keep it up!

The writing styles and screenshots are superb - FiTE AAR's could use that style as well...

FiTE as being most popular hehe...

BTW do you think that it is wise to hold on Odessa on Dnestr, that doesn't work in FiTE - better soultion to reinforce Dnepr line and leave strong garrison around Odessa... but I think that Dno is easier to Soviets (much more troops) but could be wrong? (never played DnO)

< Message edited by Monkeys Brain -- 8/11/2007 3:55:31 PM >

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 7:18:43 PM

larryfulkerson

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Here's the minimap moves movie from turns 1 thru 5:

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/11/2007 10:44:44 PM

lojishen

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M. Brain,

I think you may be right about, particularly when considering Odessa. Particularly, leaving the 2 Cav behind wasn't something I wanted to do. The 2 Cav is a Force Support formation, and the Soviets don't have many of those. They are very handy in shoring up weak defensive lines, and even more handy as an extra counter-attack force because they can cooperate with the local Internal Support troops.

I wasn't just thinking of Odessa when I put the forces there. It is a pretty straight line from S. Rumania to SE Ukraine. As you can see from the minimap movie that Larry provided, I have nothing in SE Ukraine, and that is a big area to cover. For now, I can more cheaply delay that thrust at the Dnestr. In hind sight, I'm not sure it was worth it. You'll have to let me know what you think when I get the next few turns posted.

Larry,

Thanks much for the minimap movie. It really does add a great perspective. I love the turn counter in the top as well.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/13/2007 7:16:31 AM

lojishen

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This game is getting interesting, so I need to catch this AAR up to the present. I may need some advice, though I fear that by the time I get caught up, it will all be over ...

Northern Area, T7:

When we last left the Northern Front, the Germans had brushed aside the weak blocking forces. Not much has changed. The Germans advance another 50-90km (5 to 9 hexes), but are still short of my next defensive line.

I've prepared a line along the Narva, from Pskov to Lake Il'men', and then south from Lake Il'men' past a point that is east of Velikiye Luki. Those forces south of Lake Il'men' will be taken over by the Northwestern Front. The line from Pskov to Lake Il'men' is anotehr I'm not sure about. There is some really great defensive terrain there, but the last time I manned it, it cost me the bulk of the forces guarding it. At the time, I felt it was worth it as it did slow the German down quite a bit, allowing a better and stronger line to be formed along the Luga river.

In the NE of the picture you can see the 48th and 52nd armies just starting to form.

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RE: One side only AAR, DnO lojishen vs. German Opponent... - 8/13/2007 7:28:14 AM

lojishen

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Leningrad Area T7:

Of course, the Finns are in the war as well, so I'll give an occassional update on that front. I made the decision to hold a line more than two hexes away from Leningrad. There is really no good reason to do this. In DnO, the Finns are forbidden to attack a hex that is within two hexes of a Leningrad urban hex or the supply point on the east coast of Lake Ladoga. There is a chance that this restriciton will be lifted, and at the time I was thinking it was turn 10. It isn't until turn 20, and the chance lasts for a period of ten turns. So, in the future, I'll do the smart thing and send the 23 Army straight to within two hexes of Leningrad. I got most of the army off the front lines as they activated one turn before the Russians, and by using my HQ's and some small regiments, I gently disengaged the vast bulk of the army to the south. I though I could hold the current line for a while. However, that wasn't the case as the Finns penetrated the main river line at two points on the very first turn of trying. Alas, I am now in danger of losing the 23rd army if I'm not careful.

Further East, the 7th army holds out in Karelia. I sent the bulk of the forces to the Svier river. There is real danger here as the Finns can advance some 10 hexes beyond the Svir, making them a threat to hook up with the Germans down the line. However, again, I got the bulk of the 7th army away, and should be able to hold this front. Two KarF mobile regiments come in as reinforcements at Petrozavodsk (hex 118-18) on turns 8 and 12. I thought I would see if I hold onto that arrival hex which explains the forces there. I'm spending 5 regiments to secure the arrival of 2 so not a great exchange. However, it is forcing the Finns to send sizable forces against them rather than south against the Svir or north against the KarF forces. it