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Game Decision time - 8/17/2007 1:27:55 PM   
tombo

 

Posts: 356
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		Hello all

Need help to decide which game to purchase Commander EaW vs. CG WAW AWD. Both look like very good games. I've read the forums some and still can't decide. Wish there was a demo, but no.

Any input would be helpful.

Post #: 1
RE: Game Decision time - 8/17/2007 5:13:27 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline 		Well, you will get many replies, believe me. Maybe even a fight or two about what some say.

I have all three games. I don't play WAW anymore but instead I play AWD. EAW is more simple than AWD with less options to choose from. All games you mentioned are excellent. However, if I had to pick just one I would pick AWD. Two months ago I would NOT have said this as I was having trouble understaning this game. Sticking with it and reading the manual some, I have come to really respect it a lot and found it's not hard at all. That is it's not hard to understand, but it IS hard to conquer.

EAW is a simplified game if you want to start right away and play. It is NOT simplified in terms of beating. Oh no, it will give you good time trying to beat the AI.

If you like lots of options and menus to help make decisions, AWD. If you want a game to get right into without much trouble, EAW. Keep in mind that if you choose AWD then you will have to do some reading and fooling around to get the hang of it. It really depends on what kind of a gamer you are.

(in reply to tombo)
Post #: 2
RE: Game Decision time - 8/18/2007 12:54:45 AM   
tombo

 

Posts: 356
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks LarryP, your overview is a big help.

The type of player i am is for "Detail", and would like AWD but the reality is, I never get to play those games do to the time needed for learning then playing.

I'm now leaning to go with EAW.

before purchase EAW, can someone comment to the following:

1. replayability (per each scenario, not modding)
2. flexible outcomes (not always locked to historical)
3. AI (I'm totally solo player) can address all aspects of the game
4. game mechanics (combat, etc) follow common sense/realistic results
5. Dev support
6. graphics and UI
7. chess like challange
8. reports, etc.

I'm sure alot of these can be answered throughout other threads, so i apologise in advance. Thanks all.

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 3
RE: Game Decision time - 8/18/2007 3:00:57 PM   
heroes99

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline 		one thing can be sure is the developer support is very good

replaybility is there with different difficulty settings and the oil on/off rules

Al is not that great at the moment but at highest setting it do give some sort of challenge

EAW is a easy game to get into , you dont have to spend reading pages after pages to complete the first turn :) yet it offer enough depth to keep playing and with the strong support from the dev , things will get better in future

Go ahead and buy this game , it is a game that will make you miss lunch and probably dinner !!!







< Message edited by heroes99 -- 8/18/2007 3:02:54 PM >

(in reply to tombo)
Post #: 4
RE: Game Decision time - 8/18/2007 4:39:08 PM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		AS a matter of interest I'm looking for "grogier" games of this era....what are CG WAW AWD??

Thanks

(in reply to heroes99)
Post #: 5
RE: Game Decision time - 8/18/2007 5:06:04 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

AS a matter of interest I'm looking for "grogier" games of this era....what are CG WAW AWD??

Thanks


He actually misspelled CG as it should be GG (Gary Grigsby's) WAW (World At War) AWD (A World Divided). I get mixed up quite often with all the abbreviations on the forums.

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 6
RE: Game Decision time - 8/19/2007 2:07:06 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Thanks :)

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 7
RE: Game Decision time - 8/19/2007 6:33:04 AM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		I tried Grigsby WAW and as usual found it below anything comtemporary.  Spent about 3 days playing it and never lost a game.  Think I could beat that game when I was 3.  Axis & Allies is better and that game is hokey.



_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 8
RE: Game Decision time - 8/19/2007 5:00:10 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

I tried Grigsby WAW and as usual found it below anything comtemporary. Spent about 3 days playing it and never lost a game. Think I could beat that game when I was 3. Axis & Allies is better and that game is hokey.


You're a heck of a lot smarter than me then. Did you play as the Germans?

< Message edited by LarryP -- 8/19/2007 5:01:18 PM >

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 9
RE: Game Decision time - 8/19/2007 6:36:45 PM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Yes I tried the Axis.

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 10
RE: Game Decision time - 8/19/2007 8:14:54 PM   
IrishGuards


Posts: 542
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		If you have not bought the game allready .. I suggest you do ...
IDG

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 11
RE: Game Decision time - 8/20/2007 10:00:55 AM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

I tried Grigsby WAW and as usual found it below anything comtemporary.  Spent about 3 days playing it and never lost a game.  Think I could beat that game when I was 3.  Axis & Allies is better and that game is hokey.





Targul have you tried AWD, I concede that playing against the AI once you know how the game works is useless, you will defeat it no matter what.
But as much as you have complained about the lack of pbem playability of CEaW it surprises me that you don't point out that GG AWD is the perfect game for pbem.

Well Tombo if you haven't yet bought any I would recomend CEaW if you want to go for a start right away game, but if you want a game that will make you think and discover more strategy possibilities I would buy AWD.

Anyway if you have the money get both, personally I liked AWD more.



(in reply to targul)
Post #: 12
RE: Game Decision time - 8/20/2007 9:03:21 PM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Not sure what AWD is so I probably have not played it.  That man (GG) is IMO the worst of all the programmers so I really try not to buy his stuff but his titles are always so interesting I buy it.  Try it.  Toss it.

I must admit though his WITP is a great adaptation that I have been unable to spend adequate time on to really test it.

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to rjh1971)
Post #: 13
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 12:51:47 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I'll forgive GG any other mistakes if he'll jsut redo USAAF

His Guadalcanal, bomb Alley and Nth Atlantic 86 were among hte first comp games I played way back when - early 80's?? In 40x40 block mode on the Apple II - they were fantastic at the time :)

< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 8/21/2007 12:54:02 AM >

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 14
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 2:05:25 AM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Never owned an apple so didnt play Apple games.  I believe Guadalcanal was also PC and that I did try it.  If it the one I remember it played really well until it would simply explode to desktop.  He had another that did the same thing.  I remember complianing to the company I think that was Electronic Arts at the time for a patch so I could play the game but I am still waiting those patchs which they did promised.  In those days they would put the patch on disk and send it to you.

There were actually a total of four of his titles that had this same problem.  They played well and then I believe a memory leak would suddenly explode the games.  After I spent a few hundred dollars on his stuff and they didnt work I should have learned but no I kept trying.  Eventually that problem disappeared as his game quality got worse.

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 15
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 3:37:06 AM   
heroes99

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline 		AWD is GG A World Divided - sequel to the earlier GG World at War , suppose to have better gameplay and tougher Al

I have that but yet to play it , currently busy with AGEOD Blue and Gray , one of the finest game for ACW if you can get past the game interface

CHeers



_____________________________

John Jeffery Wong

Once there are 99 heroes in a planet call Earth

Now there is only Heroes99 left !!

(in reply to SMK-at-work)
Post #: 16
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 4:05:59 AM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Okay I did not know he had an expansion since he permanently removed from my buy list  GG will need to find a different sucker then me.

I bought that Blue & Gray spent 3 days and still couldnt figure out how to move.  Finally gave it up as too complicated for me.

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to heroes99)
Post #: 17
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 12:53:21 PM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Never owned an apple so didnt play Apple games.  I believe Guadalcanal was also PC and that I did try it.  If it the one I remember it played really well until it would simply explode to desktop.  He had another that did the same thing.  I remember complianing to the company I think that was Electronic Arts at the time for a patch so I could play the game but I am still waiting those patchs which they did promised.  In those days they would put the patch on disk and send it to you.

There were actually a total of four of his titles that had this same problem.  They played well and then I believe a memory leak would suddenly explode the games.  After I spent a few hundred dollars on his stuff and they didnt work I should have learned but no I kept trying.  Eventually that problem disappeared as his game quality got worse.



Here are Gary Grigsby's games:

Guadalcanal Campaign (1982)
Bomb Alley (1982)
North Atlantic '86 (1983)
Carrier Force (1983)
Objective: Kursk (1984)
War in Russia (1984)
Reforger '88 (1984)
Kampfgruppe (1985)
Mech Brigade (1985)
USAAF (1985)
Battlegroup (1986)
Warship (1986)
War in the South Pacific (1986)
Battlecruiser (1987)
Panzer Strike! (1987)
Typhoon of Steel (1988)
Overrun! (1989)
Second Front (1990)
Western Front (1991)
Carrier Strike (1992)
Gary Grigsby's Pacific War (1992)
Gary Grigsby's War in Russia (1993)
Steel Panthers (1995)
Steel Panthers II (1996)
Steel Panthers III (1997)
Battle of Britain (1999)
12 O'clock High (1999)
Uncommon Valor: Campaign for the South Pacific (2002)
War in the Pacific: The Struggle Against Japan 1941-1945 (2004)
Gary Grigsby's World at War (2005)
Gary Grigsby's World at War A World Divided (2006)



Targul are you complaining about a computer game from 1982?
Are the four other games you claim crash to desktop also from the eighties?
I have played War in Russia (1993) maybe it had flaws but I didn't noticed the sproduction system and replacement for cassualties was complicated and I didn't make the effort to understand them; War in the Pacific (1992) this one I just couldn't understand it was either to complicated for me or the manual was not clear enough; War in the Pacific (2004) I've seen it and semm pretty complicated so I just haven't invest time in it; World at War (WAW) and A World Divided (AWD) are great games you may spend sometime trying to understand how they work but at the end they're not so complicated, AWD greatly improves the first one so much that the designers decided to make it a new game.

The point is, if you think Gary Grigsby is the worst of all programmers because of the games he did in the 80s I don't think it's fare, does his new games crash to desktop? not the ones I've played none of them. Even more all the ones I've played are highly adictive and as to the AI we have the same old problem no programmer has yet done a perfect one or to the taste of everybody.

His company was according to wikipedia SSI and now is 2by3 games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Grigsby
It really surprised me such a statement, imo he's one of the best game designers and programmers, nonetheless I might be influenced since I'm beta tested AWD and I'm actually testing his new to be game on the American Civil War, that will run with the same engine as WAW, hopefully I will also beta test his next project based on WWII East Front.

Well last to say is that I respect your opinion but if you let me say it, give Gary Grigsby's games a second chance, I would recomend you A World Divided for e-mail playing, that if you like the UI of the game, you can make yourself a good idea of how the game is by reading the AARs from the two tournaments running right now:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=382

Hope you change your mind

Regards.



(in reply to targul)
Post #: 18
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 1:13:43 PM   
heroes99

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline 		GG has a American Civil War game coming ?  ! Yahoo...I did not  know about this ...that is a great news ...

So it is time for me to learn the GG AWD system  , just that  I am all over Blue and Gray now


_____________________________

John Jeffery Wong

Once there are 99 heroes in a planet call Earth

Now there is only Heroes99 left !!

(in reply to rjh1971)
Post #: 19
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 4:46:18 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Okay I did not know he had an expansion since he permanently removed from my buy list  GG will need to find a different sucker then me.

I bought that Blue & Gray spent 3 days and still couldnt figure out how to move.  Finally gave it up as too complicated for me.


What about dragging and dropping the unit figures that are on the map ?
Irk, and some say you were smart ? just kidding

Back to EAW vs WaW-AWD, I only have the latter but found it an elegant design, mostly bug-free, easy to play but having many options. For example there are many political/diplo effects, the supply system is good, and the naval war is correctly modelled, things that don't seem to shine in EAW.
Didn't play much vs the AI but had a sound beating when I tried pbem (I was USSR and my western "ally" played even worse than me ! )

Plus I did play maybe 90% of all GG games starting in 84 up to now and really don't remember they were any worse than others bug-wise....


< Message edited by PDiFolco -- 8/21/2007 4:49:18 PM >

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 20
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 6:12:08 PM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		I must admit most of the work was from the 80-90's but I also bought WITP, WAW, & Struggle vs Japan. As I said I thought WITP was his best work. Too complicated for me to play long term but really done well. WAW was so simple I it made Axis and Allies look like rocket science worst still it came out just before HOI2 so I bought it and that delayed my purchase of HOI2 which I consider an extremely good game. Struggle in Japan could have been good but the lacked titles on the islands made it near impossible to find places. I spent many hours trying to work the horrible mechanics of that one.

I have many of his other titles and with the stack of his games sitting unplayed standing over 3 feet high in there boxes because of one thing or another I have decided to avoid his stuff. Only problem is his title always seem so interesting that I buy it and then am disappointed.

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to rjh1971)
Post #: 21
RE: Game Decision time - 8/21/2007 6:18:54 PM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Yea you can drag and drop but they have all that supply and micromanagement for putting the units together, I looked for ways to simply play without all the micromanagement but it wasnt available. It maybe a good game I couldnt figure out.
Spent 3 days trying the turorial and was never able to get through them so I decided it was more advanced then me.

I will say it was the first game I have ever tried that I could not even figure out how to play. Many I figured out and didnt like but this one I couldnt even figure it out. But my best friend who is a Civil War fan tried for over a week and he was having problems with it also. Havent asked if he ever did.

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 22
RE: Game Decision time - 8/22/2007 12:18:45 AM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

I must admit most of the work was from the 80-90's but I also bought WITP, WAW, & Struggle vs Japan. As I said I thought WITP was his best work. Too complicated for me to play long term but really done well. WAW was so simple I it made Axis and Allies look like rocket science worst still it came out just before HOI2 so I bought it and that delayed my purchase of HOI2 which I consider an extremely good game. Struggle in Japan could have been good but the lacked titles on the islands made it near impossible to find places. I spent many hours trying to work the horrible mechanics of that one.
...


Really hope HOI2 is better than Heart of Iron, because this one was, imo completely unplayable, there was a bug with saves that would make the files over 300Mb , also I got so many messages at the same time that you either had to turn them off or spent more time reading them than playing, it had other bug which were eventually fixed, but HOI was waste of money for me, rts games are better left for games like Empire Earth and similars... I prefer turn based Igoyougo strategy games: AWD, SC2, CEaW...

Not to say that I didn't risk buying HOI2


(in reply to targul)
Post #: 23
RE: Game Decision time - 8/22/2007 2:20:35 AM   
marklv

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		Hearts of Iron is an idiotic game.  You can't play strategy games properly as RTS, you need turns.  Heck, RTS is great when you're playing a 'shoot'em up' arcade game, but not a game requiring careful thought and planning.  Imagine what a mess if chess was played as RTS!  Paradox is a shambolic company, full of pretentious BS and airs and graces but producing unplayable garbage that pleases the reviewers and the 'shoot'em up' teenagers, but not real wargamers.

(in reply to rjh1971)
Post #: 24
RE: Game Decision time - 8/22/2007 3:11:21 AM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		I hate RTS also but I just put the game on ultra slow and would cook watch TV and play.  Stoney Road is the only version I play but it is the most realistic of all WWII games I have played including the 100's of board games.

Never had that save problem with HOI.  It always played fine for me.  Only problem was the silly I want to play Luxembourg and conquer the world the game allowed.  I would say you play Albania the Italians kill you round one move to next game.

_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to marklv)
Post #: 25
RE: Game Decision time - 8/22/2007 5:36:23 AM   
heroes99

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

Yea you can drag and drop but they have all that supply and micromanagement for putting the units together, I looked for ways to simply play without all the micromanagement but it wasnt available. It maybe a good game I couldnt figure out.
Spent 3 days trying the turorial and was never able to get through them so I decided it was more advanced then me.

I will say it was the first game I have ever tried that I could not even figure out how to play. Many I figured out and didnt like but this one I couldnt even figure it out. But my best friend who is a Civil War fan tried for over a week and he was having problems with it also. Havent asked if he ever did.


I assume we are talking about AGEOD Blue and the Gray

The supply micro management are taken care by the AI and you only need decide whether to carry a supply wagon which catch supply from the supply line every turn and store them in case you run out of supply

Our main task as the Commander is to decide the right general to lead the Army or Corps and mix the right force for offense / defense

A lot strategic decisions involve like

Should I promote this General who is doing well (winning few battles) but way too junior ..if I do that , I will offend the senior General and cause National Morale to drop !

They use active/non active to stimulate lousy army commander , been inactive all the time greatly penalize the whole army force but I cannot simply sack him if he is a popular and very senior as it will cause me

and also some general are very good as divisional level but once you promote him to higher level , he cant handle the job , getting drop in attributes instead increase - to stimulate some people cant handle big time job

The idea of promotion is to allow general command larger force
i.e 1 star general - division leader , 2 Star - Corps and 3 Star - Army Commander and increase the bonus given by the generals

Individual unit also gain experience from battle

and above are just a small fraction you can do with this game

The system use a Command Points usage to stimulate chain of command is the best I ever seen ..simple yet very effective

This game is full decision making and planning , the developer did a very good job taking away all those tedious micro management and the player to make big decision that will impact the outcome of the war !!!

Very good game and this come from a not so bright and hate complex wargames player - that is me




< Message edited by heroes99 -- 8/22/2007 6:11:20 AM >

_____________________________

John Jeffery Wong

Once there are 99 heroes in a planet call Earth

Now there is only Heroes99 left !!

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 26
RE: Game Decision time - 8/22/2007 5:00:34 PM   
Syagrius

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		I ordered AACW last week, can't wait to play as there is so much good comments about it.

(in reply to heroes99)
Post #: 27
RE: Game Decision time - 8/22/2007 10:35:38 PM   
targul


Posts: 449
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		It maybe a good game. My friend and I spent considerable time trying to make it work but he with a doctorate in computer science and wargame player since his teens and I have played these kinda games forever just couldnt figure it out.

The tutorial just didnt seem to work at all. I would try apart of it make it work then move to next tutorial etc but by the end I had no idea how to do anything in the game. I then said oh forget that I will just play and figure it out as I go. That works in many games. Once you move around you look at the rule and then correct it and move again. Regrettfully for me this just did not work.

Finally I gave up and I doubt I will return to it just not worth the time as I dont need a tutorial for that game I need a tutor.

I did once ask on the boards there about the tutorial and was told at the time there was an error in it but the patch for the tutorial was not yet available. I didnt wait around for that patch I just came back to playing Commander.



_____________________________

Jim

Cant we just get along.
Hell no I want to kill something!

1st Cav Div 66-69 5th Special Forces 70-73

(in reply to rjh1971)
Post #: 28
RE: Game Decision time - 8/23/2007 2:54:15 AM   
heroes99

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

It maybe a good game. My friend and I spent considerable time trying to make it work but he with a doctorate in computer science and wargame player since his teens and I have played these kinda games forever just couldnt figure it out.

The tutorial just didnt seem to work at all. I would try apart of it make it work then move to next tutorial etc but by the end I had no idea how to do anything in the game. I then said oh forget that I will just play and figure it out as I go. That works in many games. Once you move around you look at the rule and then correct it and move again. Regrettfully for me this just did not work.

Finally I gave up and I doubt I will return to it just not worth the time as I dont need a tutorial for that game I need a tutor.

I did once ask on the boards there about the tutorial and was told at the time there was an error in it but the patch for the tutorial was not yet available. I didnt wait around for that patch I just came back to playing Commander.




when you have time , you give another try , it really a very good game ..this game really is a dream come true for casual wargamers who like something deep but could not get into those complex wargames .

All the hard work are well spent on making decision , planning instead of like some other deep games where you need to do a lot those tedious micro management . There is none here and yet it is a game with a lot depth

@tombo , sorry for the out topics discussion here ..have you bought CEAW or AWD ? Get them both

< Message edited by heroes99 -- 8/23/2007 2:56:27 AM >

_____________________________

John Jeffery Wong

Once there are 99 heroes in a planet call Earth

Now there is only Heroes99 left !!

(in reply to targul)
Post #: 29
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