Tower Armour

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Scenario Design >> Tower Armour

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Tower Armour - 8/23/2007 9:30:44 AM

Hoplosternum

Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline

Although in WitP range plays a part in when and if a shell penetrates a Warship it is still largely an all or nothing system. Either a shell penetrates and does quite a lot of damage, or it does not penetrate and very little if any damage is caused. While this may be the case in RL if armour is struck, even well armoured warships of the period are not equally well protected everywhere. Plus many of the armour schemes when tested in combat were not as effective as hoped even over the areas of the ship that were trying to be protected. Either because the threats had subtly changed, design flaws or structural failings and weaknesses.

I want to be able to make Warships vulnerable to the occasional hit even if their armour in general would protect them.

My plan is to hugely reduce the �Tower� armour of all ships. So that if the combat routine hits the tower armour it is likely to penetrate and deal some damage, i.e. I want to use the Tower hit to represent a hit that either found a weakness in the armour to get through or hit a non-armoured area but still � perhaps by fire spread/internal explosion � damaged something vital that is normally protected by the main armour. Tower hits seem fairly rare compared to belt or deck hits so this should not result in mass destruction of ships. But it would make them vulnerable to smaller calibre shells and bombs on occasion.

But would it work? I have rarely seen / noticed a ship surviving belt hits but being penetrated by deck hits (but maybe I just have not noticed?). Yet the armour is often different thicknesses in the ship designs (Belt/Deck/Tower). So is there only one armour value for each ship and the belt/deck/tower locations just chrome?

If it�s not just chrome does anyone know if different sorts of hits / ranges increase the likelihood of the various locations? I believe bombs and long range shells are more likely to be deck hits but maybe this is just wishful thinking? Of specific interest to me of course are Tower hits. Are they more likely to occur from shells or bombs? And does range play any part?

Does anyone have any idea what percentage of hits are Tower hits? From my own experience it�s just a �few�, but if it�s actually quite a lot (maybe a third or even just 20%) then I don�t really want to make the change. I don�t want Cruisers and Battleships wrecked by Destroyer gunfire or 500lb bombs, just for them not to be all but immune from them.

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RE: Tower Armour - 8/23/2007 12:42:19 PM

el cid again

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline

I have seen posted that tower armor has no effect when penetrated. It is chrome. Apparently the ships lack a command function, so losing the tower has no meaning. If you lose a turret or AAA mount or torpedo mount - it does not work any more. If you get a magazine explosion, you get a secondary damage impace, probably fires, and you lose a weapon. But if you hit the tower - you just get a report - I hear - and regretfully it sound likely to be so.

(in reply to Hoplosternum)

Post #: 2

RE: Tower Armour - 8/23/2007 5:49:22 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

Tower armor penetrations cause SYS damage only whereas Deck and Belt hit penetrations will tend to cause both SYS and FLT. the % to hit is less for Tower than Belt or Deck where shells are concerned and the Tower armor location is not elligable to be hit by bomb devices. (Torpedoes of course only strike the Belt armor location)

_____________________________

(in reply to Hoplosternum)

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RE: Tower Armour - 8/23/2007 5:52:52 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have seen posted that tower armor has no effect when penetrated. It is chrome. Apparently the ships lack a command function, so losing the tower has no meaning. If you lose a turret or AAA mount or torpedo mount - it does not work any more. If you get a magazine explosion, you get a secondary damage impace, probably fires, and you lose a weapon. But if you hit the tower - you just get a report - I hear - and regretfully it sound likely to be so.

You hear? Oh yeah, right, I forgot... You don't actually PLAY WitP, do you, so you're probably not very well placed to comment on this.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to el cid again)

Post #: 4

RE: Tower Armour - 8/23/2007 6:30:15 PM

Mistmatz

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have seen posted that tower armor has no effect when penetrated. It is chrome. Apparently the ships lack a command function, so losing the tower has no meaning. If you lose a turret or AAA mount or torpedo mount - it does not work any more. If you get a magazine explosion, you get a secondary damage impace, probably fires, and you lose a weapon. But if you hit the tower - you just get a report - I hear - and regretfully it sound likely to be so.

You hear? Oh yeah, right, I forgot... You don't actually PLAY WitP, do you, so you're probably not very well placed to comment on this.

Terminus, your rants against el cid are becoming increasingly annoying. In comparison to your posting and a couple of others I followed over the last weeks, el cid contributes.
You may or may not agree with what he says, but do you really think you need to discredit yourself with postings like the above?

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 5

RE: Tower Armour - 8/24/2007 2:34:46 PM

Hoplosternum

Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline

Thanks Nik that�s very helpful to know. It looks like Tower will be very useful for my purpose as any hit is unlikely to be fatal (Sys rather than lots of Float damage) but will do harm to the ship. Just what I wanted really.

Sid, it�s always been my impression that you got a Tower hit instead of a Belt or Deck hit. And that these are different from the critical �Ammo explosion� type hits. This is backed up by the three locations having different armour levels in the database. My concern was that only one of the armour thicknesses was really being used and the whole Belt/Deck/Tower hits were chrome.

Terminus � Sid may or may not play WitP but he certainly played UV as I played a game against a Sid Trevethans who lived in Alaska before WitP came out. There cannot be two such Sids as �my� Sid sent me some papers he had written on Uranium being transported by U-Boats and modern Chinese Navy OOBs while we were exchanging turns

So he has plenty of experience with a WitP like game even if you are correct and he doesn�t play WitP. Although I don�t know why you think that? I usually don�t agree with a lot of what Sid says but even when he�s wrong (or at least I think he is) I am interested in what he has to say and why he says it.

He also has a lot of modding experience and while he doesn�t always IMHO know exactly how the editor and the fields within it work he can and does help me and others avoid a lot of mistakes. Often because he has made them earlier and knows that a particular way won�t work.

(in reply to Mistmatz)

Post #: 6

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